5900 series behind the corner

[gurneyhck]

I don't think we are talking about the same thing.

This card is supposedly = 2x HD 5870 cores underclocked to HD 5850 specs.

Bandwidth (on paper) should therefore be ~ the same as two HD 5850 1GB cards.

Therefore this card should = 2x HD 5850 (+/-). However, in higher resolutions in DX10 games, it looks to be getting spanked by two HD 5850 cards.

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As for "driver issues", I don't play along with that. In newer games, sure. However, we are talking about HawX DX10 and Far Cry 2 DX10...two games that were released months and months and months ago. If ATI is having "driver issues", that is simply an embarrassment of epic proportions.

Ok, so lets assume u're hypothese is right that the timings went up. What is the voltage of GDDR5 on the HD5850, u know now that the voltage on the 5970's GDDR5 is 1.10V

[Monstru]

SKYMTL - It is not 2 x HD5850. It is 2 x HD5870 with HD 5850 clocks. A small difference between 1440 stream procesors and 1600 stream processor, and 72 texture units, versus 80 texture units. Even with lower GPU clocks, one GPU from 5970 is still capable of more calculus compared to 5850. Anyway, overclock the card to 725/1200. You will have a nice surprise

Look at those overclockers that do 1300-1400 core with only 1250-1300 MHz memory. And still have a huge boost. at the start i thought the RV870 and the RV840 where memory bandwith bottelneked but if you look at the OC results you gain way more by overclocking the core.

Overclocking and 2560x1600 have nothing in common. This card is a beast in 1680x1050 and 1920x1200 and in benchmarks. The problems start with 2560x1600. Now, when we run 2k3, 2k5, 2k6 or Vantage for ranking, the resolution is either 1024x768, or 1280x1024. No bandwidth issues there

[Calmatory]

I am very pissed.

1: Frame time is roughly; CPU time + RAM time + interconnect time(CPU/NB <-> GPU) + GPU time + VRAM time. Understood?
2: CPU time does not change regardless of the resolution, unless CPU is doing per pixel ops. AI, Input handling, event handling, physics, game state updates, game world updates etc aren't tied to resolution.
3: GPU time is directly porpotional to the game's visual quality settings and resolution.

But hey, just overclock the FRAMEBUFFER to see if it helps.

[SKYMTL]

SKYMTL - It is not 2 x HD5850. It is 2 x HD5870 with HD 5850 clocks. A small difference between 1440 stream procesors and 1600 stream processor, and 72 texture units, versus 80 texture units. Even with lower GPU clocks, one GPU from 5970 is still capable of more calculus compared to 5850.

You and I just said the same thing.

My point was that on paper, the HD 5970 has better specs than 2x HD 5850 yet gets beaten out by the dual card configuration due to what seems like bandwidth issues. I was wondering out loud where those limitations came from considering the clock speeds.

[Monstru]

SKYMTL - Ok, I get your point

Calmatory - Carefull with that "physics" word on this thread =))

[Manicdan]

You and I just said the same thing.

My point was that on paper, the HD 5970 has better specs than 2x HD 5850 yet gets beaten out by the dual card configuration due to what seems like bandwidth issues. I was wondering out loud where those limitations came from considering the clock speeds.

is it possible the PCIe slot is being the bottleneck? when you run x2 configs, are those at 8x or 16x each?

[SKYMTL]

is it possible the PCIe slot is being the bottleneck? when you run x2 configs, are those at 8x or 16x each?

You make a good point. It actually may not be the slot being the bottleneck but rather the PLX chip.

[thebluemeanie1]

Maybe you could determine the size of the bus by the number of memory chips plus some info from their datasheets.

[ajaidev]

You make a good point. It actually may not be the slot being the bottleneck but rather the PLX chip.

I dont think its the PLX chip, the plx chip basically makes the 16x pcie slot into two 8x slots.

So that means performance similar as 5850 crossfire on say a 780X/780GX/P55. But if one uses PLX on a 8x PCIe the 8x speed will go down to 4x.

5850 CF with 780X/780GX gives similar performance as 5850 CF + 780FX so i dont think PLX is a issue.

[eric66]

ok seems i am gonna wait for pro reviewers lol first its 128 bit then its undervoltaged now plx isn't enough

[Monstru]

Maybe you could determine the size of the bus by the number of memory chips plus some info from their datasheets.

The bus is 2 x 256 bit, one 256 bit for each GPU. That is certain.

PLX should be enough, it was used with succes on HD 4870 X2, and this is "the new and impproved gen2" chip

[BooStFeD]

Thought I'd share some google findings enjoy

http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/artic...?cid=3&id=3072

[SKYMTL]

ok seems i am gonna wait for pro reviewers lol first its 128 bit then its undervoltaged now plx isn't enough

It was a discussion. No one was stating anything for a fact.

[SKYMTL]

So that means performance similar as 5850 crossfire on say a 780X/780GX/P55. But if one uses PLX on a 8x PCIe the 8x speed will go down to 4x.

That was true for the Gen 1 PLX switch. I'm not sure however if it is also true for the one used on the HD 5970 (Gen II).

[eleeter]

Doesn't make sense to me to even consider this card to have a 128 bit memory bus. That would mean that it is using a new variation of silicon (a new die) or the memory bus was clipped in half. Neither is plausible.

The card itself, somewhat disappointing to me based on what I've seen so far. I don't really see a problem with the length though, if you plan on putting a 300 watt card in a smallish case you are just asking for problems.

[Manicdan]

I don't really see a problem with the length though, if you plan on putting a 300 watt card in a smallish case you are just asking for problems.

i think they would call that "introduction to building a bomb the wrong way"

[Sam_oslo]

300 watt is not a problem, as long as your PSU can deliver (and most do), and the cooler can keep the card cool. But you can always upgrade the case-cooling/airflow, or the GPU-cooler, anyways.

The performance is the most important, can it match (or at least get close to) the 2 x 5870 will decide how good it will sell, I believe.

[jaredpace]

how good it will sell, I belive.

I think they will sell every one they make for about the next 5-6 months

[Sam_oslo]

I think they will sell every one they make for about the next 5-6 months

Why would you buy this in this price if it can't deliver (or get close) to 2 x 5870?

[LordEC911]

Why would you buy this in this price if it can't deliver (or get close) to 2 x 5870?

Because it is about 80% the price of 5870CF and only needs a single PCI-e slot.
Edit- Or 75% of the price, if you go off the $399 per 5870 and $599 for the 5970.

[Manicdan]

Because it is about 80% the price of 5870CF and only needs a single PCI-e slot.
Edit- Or 75% of the price, if you go off the $399 per 5870 and $599 for the 5970.

to better describe it, you save 20-25% compared to buying 2 cards individually

and save 2 slots.

[rioja]

I don't really see a problem with the length though, if you plan on putting a 300 watt card in a smallish case you are just asking for problems.

besides all those hardware case must carry cooling system. my has dual loop watercooling internal, and 2 reservoirs in the middle so i have only 28 cm space for video.
and now i am in doubt what to choose - 5970 and do a little mod in case or get 5870 in cross.
length may be an issue for many i think.

[InCredible]

Why would you buy this in this price if it can't deliver (or get close) to 2 x 5870?

also knowing this card can overclock to the speeds of the 5870 and get you the performance you're looking for...

ati only downclocked it to get the TDP it wanted..they show you that the core can go higher and the cooler is rated to cool 400w compared to the 300w its producing now.

[Manicdan]

also knowing this card can overclock to the speeds of the 5870 and get you the performance you're looking for...

ati only downclocked it to get the TDP it wanted..they show you that the core can go higher and the cooler is rated to cool 400w compared to the 300w its producing now.

this is true, in the review for the HIS card a few posts back, the temps were looking pretty good for the power output. however they had issues with OCing

[annihilat0r]

To be able to see benefits from overclocking this card you're gonna need a fast, like really fast CPU