Intel's 34nm NAND SSDs launch in two weeks

[Da_maniaC]

Thanks for the comments guys.
Ths thing is i am still on Vista Ultimate x64 SP2 instead of Windows 7.
(And it will be at least another 5-6 months before i am probably switching due to the way my software is set up and not wanting to use an upgrade).

You are right about the HDD defragmentation and the SSD trimming, the deal is that i can defragment my harddrive with a windows tool or even a third party one.
With trimming this is not yet possible.
And everyone's focus (manufacturer as well as microsoft) doesn't let me to believe that there will be a tool for vista or so.

Even though i am still leaning very much towards buying since i have seen the improvements of one SSD now and i am planning to put 2 of them in RAID0.

--

Regarding the two product numbers... i am from the Netherlands so i do not buy stuff from etailers like newegg.
But has anyone else noticed the Retail version being cheaper then the boxed one? (Which seems illogical)
I'm talking about a 20-30 EUR. difference here from all retailers.

[Boyu]

For singgle intel ssd what is the best option in bios, AHCI or IDE?, thx

[lowfat]

AHCI. IDE shouldn't really be used anymore.

[Lu(ky]

Hey guys if I put 2 x Intel SSD 80GB G2 in a raid -0- using onboard mobo controller will Windows 7 TRIM still work in a raid setup?

[CedricFP]

Not now, it won't. Won't for the near future as well.

[Lu(ky]

Not now, it won't. Won't for the near future as well.

Wow I did not know that... I just bought another drive for a raid setup. Oh well I keep hearing guys saying the TRIM is overrated anyways. Another question on a fresh W7 install. I been using the one drive already on beta W7 and I have the up to date FW on it planning on doing a new FW update to my new drive. But since my first drive has been used already do I use W7 to reformat that drive or use a better software out there for ssd drives? Last question what is the best block size setting for a raid -0- setup on these G2 drives 64k.

Thanks

[Da_maniaC]

Do the intels come with a tool comparable to OCZ's wiper.exe?

[lowfat]

Do the intels come with a tool comparable to OCZ's wiper.exe?

nope

[Da_maniaC]

Well, then as a follow up question do they have a firmware yet that allows 'garbage cleaning' when the drive is mostly idle?

[Ao1]

Well, then as a follow up question do they have a firmware yet that allows 'garbage cleaning' when the drive is mostly idle?

Intel drives don't degrade anywhere close to other ssd's so it’s not really a big issue, however the G2 versions will be getting a f/w update soon to provide native TRIM support for Win 7. The rumoured date for release is 7th November, but nothing has been said directly by Intel apart from a statement to say it's coming at some stage.

Everyone seems to think that TRIM is the Holy Grail...most likely it will be a big disappointment, but let’s see.

[Da_maniaC]

Well according to some news messages posted today, Intel did some updates to there SSD firmware and software package.
This all sounds very promising to me since there are seperate software tools to do trimming/synchronizing now.
I was hoping if someone here could confirm if these tools would work on a RAID0 setup though...

[HydrogenAlpha]

Well according to some news messages posted today, Intel did some updates to there SSD firmware and software package.
This all sounds very promising to me since there are seperate software tools to do trimming/synchronizing now.
I was hoping if someone here could confirm if these tools would work on a RAID0 setup though...

You can't update the firmware in RAID mode. Intel recommends you update in compatibility mode or AHCI mode. I take this to mean IDE mode or AHCI mode. You simply have to set BIOS to IDE, reboot to BIOS, reboot to BIOS again to detect drives properly and boot from CD ROM fw update disc, then perform update on drives, then reboot and reset BIOS to RAID. Don't adjust the settings within your RAID controller as this will invalidate the array. Beware, however, there are several posts of drives being hosed by the fw update procedure. I haven't done my own ones yet.

[Da_maniaC]

Thanks for the info, i understand how the update procedure would work (ie. as in not wrecking the RAID array etc).
Is the newer firmware necessary to run the software tools?
And do you know perhaps if these tools work while the drives are in RAID mode?

Yeah, i also read about people hosing their drives after upgrading their firmware. (Acronis Backups ftw).

[HydrogenAlpha]

Thanks for the info, i understand how the update procedure would work (ie. as in not wrecking the RAID array etc).
Is the newer firmware necessary to run the software tools?
And do you know perhaps if these tools work while the drives are in RAID mode?

Yeah, i also read about people hosing their drives after upgrading their firmware. (Acronis Backups ftw).

In RAID mode the trim commands will not pass through to the drives, so there will be no way to trim under RAID until intel makes their Matrix storage driver TRIM compliant, and that probably won't be for a while - maybe Q1 2010? On the plus side, you should get a nice speed boost with sequential write on 160GB G2s in RAID mode with the firmware update.
I'm sure you know now that the fw update has been pulled temporarily by intel because of all the bricked drives. We'll have to wait for a fixed version compatible with windows 7 64.

[Da_maniaC]

Yep, i am indeed aware of Intel holding back the firmware.

Regarding the TRIM Tools...i was under the impression the software tools they developed for the Intel SSD's we're able to clean up te hard drive by synchronising the filesystem/memory addresses in such a way an actual TRIM command wasn't necessary.

If this is not the case, do you by any chance have a link to a review that thoroughly focusses on performance degradation?
(I know its not THAT much of a big issue, i just wanna feel a little more confident before spending 665 euro's. ).

I'm coming from 2, RaptorX drives (150GB) in RAID0 which isnt exactly slow at all but the performance gain with SSD RAID would be severely noticeable even coming from my current array.
Next to that this also means better power usage, zero noise from the drives itself and i can start using my fan controller again cause i dont have to cool 2, 10K RPM drives located directly underneath my HD4870.
Even though i am getting a Sapphire HD5870 in one or two days (the temperature problem is evident, if i wouldnt have my current ZM-F3 fans blowing at a continuous high rate.

[HydrogenAlpha]

Yep, i am indeed aware of Intel holding back the firmware.

If this is not the case, do you by any chance have a link to a review that thoroughly focusses on performance degradation?
(I know its not THAT much of a big issue, i just wanna feel a little more confident before spending 665 euro's. ).

I'm coming from 2, RaptorX drives (150GB) in RAID0 which isnt exactly slow at all but the performance gain with SSD RAID would be severely noticeable even coming from my current array.
Next to that this also means better power usage, zero noise from the drives itself and i can start using my fan controller again cause i dont have to cool 2, 10K RPM drives located directly underneath my HD4870.

This review doesn't exactly focus on performance degradation, but Anandtech is second to none on SSD stuff and you'll get all the info you need. Take a look at the graphs starting half way down this page - you'll see like 1 and 2% performance degradation in the used state. Hardly worth considering in my view.

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/sho...px?i=3631&p=11

I used to have a couple of raptors and GTX 295s in quad SLi and boy have you got a treat in store. The computer used to sound like a hairdrier and now it's whisper quiet with the SSDs and the 5870. The boot times are very good, but boot is very good with RAID anyway so you might be a little underwhelmed in that department. App load times, on the other hand, are nothing short of stellar and windows updates are like lightening.
I copied all my games install discs onto my WD 1TB drive and you've got to see 6GB games install in a minute from HDD to SSD. Geeks me out a little. :-)

[Da_maniaC]

Thanks a lot for the info man, you've been a great help!

One last question:
Would i be able to create an Acronis image from my current Windows install and just throw it back on the newly created RAID array with the SSD's?

[HydrogenAlpha]

There's no real reason why not, as long as the new RAID array is the same size or larger than the previous one. I'm not sure how acronis manages shrinking the volume but this can be a problem. The other potential problem is that your RAID controller (ICH10R) might get confused and forget your array - that's happened to me before. I'd rather do a fresh install myself, using win 7, to ensure proper alignment of the drives (vista does this too). If you have a HDD you're not using I'd just backup everything onto that and do a fresh install. Installing on a SSD RAID 0 is fun - these things excel at small random writes. :-)

[Da_maniaC]

I was thinking the drive alignment was actually necessary before the Acronis backup is restored.
On the other hand, i thought a partition on the drive was needed to do this.

So this means if i restore the complete Acronis backup, i am copying literally everything (including Sector 0).
And Sector 0 is exactly what i thought, that drive alignment was there for to mimic? (Unless im mistaking 2 different things now).

No worries about the backups and redundancy btw. Next to my RAID0 array is a RAID1 array for all my data.
(This includes the target location of my scheduled backups ).
The reason i want to be able to restore the backup is, i can not be arsed reinstalling my system right now.
I use such a diverse range of software for my own hobby's, for work as well as games for my time off that even with actual planning of a reinstall with a migration schedule
takes me all week if i'm working too. (I use about 60 different pieces of software that all come with settings to use them to my own preference both hobby and work related).
Another fresh Windows 7 installation will indeed be realised once Intel releases their follow up to Nehalem and i will be buying a new Mainboard+Proc+RAM.
This way i can set up a system next to my current one and take all the time i need to install and configure all of the software i use.

[HydrogenAlpha]

Hey Maniac,
sounds like you know a fair bit more about RAID arrays than me. :-) I can see why you're not keen to do a fresh install if you have 60 pieces of software to install and optimise. I guess the best advice is to try the copy. If you copy from a raid array on sata 0 and 1 to an SSD array on sata 2 and 3, you could then set your bios to boot from the ssd array before even disconnecting the first one. That way you could make sure it works without risking anything. Does that sound right? Am possibly talking bollocks now. :-)

[Da_maniaC]

Well, i think i can actually achieve this in a different manner.
My motherboard (Asus Maximus Formula) has 6 SATA connectors.
Right now 2 are used for the RAID0 array, 2 are in use by the RAID1 array and another one is used for my SATA Plextor DVD Reader/Writer.

My RAID1 array will be intact at all times, so when i make the transfer i can just disconnect the RaptorX RAID0 and hook up the new SSD's.
At this point i wont have a working system (read as: a drive or RAID array with an installed OS to boot from).
Acronis on the other hand, has a nifty recovery CD which allows me to boot from it right into their own recovery application.
From there i can point to the backup images on the RAID1 (Data) array and restore it on my then, newly created SSD RAID0 array.

This should work without any problems, other then i have read that since SSD's are static memory compared to moving harddisk platters Sector 0 is no longer evident.
I thought that drive aligning was created for this exact purpose. (To create a seperate space for Sector 0, regardless of where it is in the memory adress range since every cell has the same access time).
But maybe i am now totally mistaking the purpose of drive alignment, and worrying about something irrelevant?

[N.I.C]

Hey guys, i just got my first Postville 80GB, and i was wondering, is it worth to buy another one for a raid0 setup? I read here that TRIM support is not available for raid setups. Is that a big con? I mean, you can't just optimize your ssds from the intel toolbox? i am not familiar with ssds, sorry for my noob question

[Da_maniaC]

I am on the virge of buying 2 Postville 160GB SSD's and am going to put them in RAID0.
I've read tons of reviews and threads on serveral forums...
All of them show a performance degradation of less then 4% after a period of 2-3 months or more.
And everyone testing this concludes that such degradation isn't even noticeable during normal use and can only be measured.

[Da_maniaC]

So, finally i got a pair yesterday evening.
I put them in my PC to form a new RAID0 array and went on to recovering my Acronis images.
This seemed a little tricky at first... the acronis recovery manager didnt recognize the array though it saw 2 seperate drives!
I ended up hooking the original array back up and then recovering the system image while i was in Windows (Using the normal Acronis TI software).
Chose not to set a drive letter for this image, then when i was finished, powered down, i disconnected the old RAID0 array and booted directly from the new one without any problems at all.

The speed is amazing! It took 6 seconds for the Vista bootloader to dissapear (the green, running bar) and BOOM.
I am so amazed!
I will be writing a review about these babies soon though it will be for a dutch site.
But i can already say to people that are only in doubt because of the current prices...if you like fast I/O get rid of your Raptor/Atlas/15K3 array and go SSD!

[fritzman]

That's awesome. I only have a single, but can't speak highly enough of the change as well.

Wait until you give Vista the flick and go to W7... that will really boot up even quicker.