HD5870 and HD5850 Reviews

[jmke]

Quake Spam Finals

definitely no skill involved; only spamming
it's not like one has a tactical advantage to know the map, the spawnpoints, where the weapons are, how the physics work.
nor is it necessary to aim, just spam a random weapon somewhere near your opponent and you're golden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhMGXI6Nums

first thing we see is the player spamming a grenade in a random direction.
yup, definitely "better" tactics that. and camping in one spot while other spam gunfire at your camp spot is not really... hmm... very interesting

[Chickenfeed]

it's not about seeing the fps, it's the feeling; the usual smoothness you loose when the fps drops below a certain level... any hardcore online fps gamer knows what I'm talking about...and will notice directly via the game input/ouput that the game is acting up... don't argue bout that, there's a world of difference between being a single or muliplayer experience...

Right on the money Sir. I've been saying this for I don't know how long but the whole "your eyes cant see bleh bleh blah blah" and " your refresh rate blah blah " crap always tends to get in the way of this fact.

More on topic with what I had said before about the netstack and the effects of higher framerates I was talking about engine specifics not subjective preferences on first person shooters, so for the sake of humanity leave the whole quake vs counter strike ect out of this discussion It is not relevant whatsoever to what we were discussing.

I am somewhat shocked at how CPU dependent TF2 is. It scales like garbage gpu wise yet still uses Valves lastest version of Source (dynamic lighting, multi threading, hdr, motion blur ect ) The strange thing to me is the fact that L4D seems to scale quite well on past and new hardware even though it uses a similar engine. Granted it is still CPU limited to a large extent. With TF2 I would have figured my 4870x2 would have trounced the GTX 260 I used for a short while but it did not what so ever where as in L4D it did by a considerable margin.


By the way are there any forum users who have their hands on a 5850 / 5870 that would like to add any of their own feedback ( as nice as most commercial reviews are sometimes its nice to get some user input as well I find ) I'm hoping we get some more 5850 reviews over the next week as the majority so far only focused on single 5870s ( I know there are some 5850 numbers but it would be ideal to have a healthy review sample ) My biggest pet peeve with most reviews is they are always doing AVG framerates. While this is an important factor knowing the minimum is so much more important to me. Ideally what I'd like to see from more reviews is charts, min, avg and possibly max ( not as important ) at 4 standard resolutions ( being 1280x1024, 1680x1050, 1920x1200 and 2560x1600 ) I do realize adding charts and minimum numbers does require more time and effort as well as space on the review pages but it would make most reviews go from a pass to a great. I see a lot of things I like from done by particular sites / reviewers but never all of them in the same place.

[orangekiwii]

But it isn't. Everyone who played Q3 seriously knows about the com_maxfps 120 and what it does for them. Having graphics and physics 1:1 allows for the unique trick jumping possibilities, and not only that, it is the ONE and ONLY engine that has no solid limits, enabling skilled players to move much faster and to jump much further.

Any lucky dude can score against a professional player in ANY OTHER GAME, but Q3 is the only game where even minor differences in skill result in a whole dozen of cans of whoopass for the one who is less experienced. I've played with people that thought of themselves as of GOOD GAMERS, having good skills in other FPS games like CS or COD, and when I play Q3 with them it is a major ownage. It is something very special to play with someone who thinks he knows FPS because he is good at some game, and in Q3 in a quick 15 minutes game the end result is like 40:-4, yes thats negative 4 for the "pro gamer" who thought he is any good at quake for being good at some other FPS.

No other game can do it. As old and outdated Q3 is, in my book it has the best gameplay physics up to date. I don't mean pure eye candy physics like nvidia does, but GAMEPLAY physics.

Thats not skill. Thats experience. Theres a difference. Stop thinking you're so much better because you've been doing one thing so much longer than someone else.

That's like in an rpg...the highest ranked character goes against the lowest ranked character. They CAN have equal skill, and the lower ranked character can have higher physical mental skill... but the higher RANKED character will always win because of his experience (literally) and his points and armor.

I repeat, its NOT skill... its experience... I have VERY good shooting skills but I get decimated by people I know cannot shoot as well as I can in quake.

Its experience...you're not all that skilled jumping around bunny hopping... its a skill in and of itself... but actual fps skill is not part of that...

[cirthix]

of course it is, it has half the ram, and is 4730 levels lower!

obviously he needs to do a multigpu setup with a 512mb 4730 and a 512mb 4870 to equal the 1gb 9600.

[villa1n]

definitely no skill involved; only spamming
it's not like one has a tactical advantage to know the map, the spawnpoints, where the weapons are, how the physics work.
nor is it necessary to aim, just spam a random weapon somewhere near your opponent and you're golden.




first thing we see is the player spamming a grenade in a random direction.
yup, definitely "better" tactics that. and camping in one spot while other spam gunfire at your camp spot is not really... hmm... very interesting

So you are saying that Quake 3 would be considered a tactical game? lol.
There are things you need to know, but spawnpoints etc, respawning, is not a "tactical" game by definition alone.

And you are misusing the word spam... In that video he s making a calculated throw to where a possible enemy is.. CAL players don't spam, in the sense pub noobs do, and one nade does not qualify it as such....

TeamDeathmatch style games do take a skill gained through experience, but so does any game. The distinction i m trying to make is that at a high level, tactical fps require you to be aware of the map, teammates and enemy positions, because the more fixed movement patterns, you cant jump 50 feet spraying lazer beams , and call that comparable to peeking walls, throwing smoke for cover, and moving as a unit. Memorizing isn't the same as Cognition.
Its like in GoldenEye to take fps way back.. archives... proximity mines, by planting proxes everywhere on spawn points and making a route i only know and can walk to ammo refills, i could win every time, i wouldnt consider that skill, i would consider that experience. As anyone can do that.

Anyways enough thread derail..

More info on 5850xfire!

[Kurz]

So you are saying that Quake 3 would be considered a tactical game? lol.
There are things you need to know, but spawnpoints etc, respawning, is not a "tactical" game by definition alone.

And you are misusing the word spam... In that video he s making a calculated throw to where a possible enemy is.. CAL players don't spam, in the sense pub noobs do, and one nade does not qualify it as such....

TeamDeathmatch style games do take a skill gained through experience, but so does any game. The distinction i m trying to make is that at a high level, tactical fps require you to be aware of the map, teammates and enemy positions, because the more fixed movement patterns, you cant jump 50 feet spraying lazer beams , and call that comparable to peeking walls, throwing smoke for cover, and moving as a unit. Memorizing isn't the same as Cognition.
Its like in GoldenEye to take fps way back.. archives... proximity mines, by planting proxes everywhere on spawn points and making a route i only know and can walk to ammo refills, i could win every time, i wouldnt consider that skill, i would consider that experience. As anyone can do that.

Anyways enough thread derail..

More info on 5850xfire!

Like a rubric cube there is a pattern that works and solves the objective.
However lets say a human being catches on that you use this pattern and tries to exploit it. Then you have to come up with a different pattern in order to be successful.

Trust me, we all do that.


BTW can a simple overclock help mitigate the stuttering?
Or Vsync?

[flopper]

I consider for example bf2 as a combination between tactical and skill based shooter.
You got a small group vs a whole team that also has groups.
You have more options in how to play that than pure kill skill.
You can draw fire on yourself, let the group m8 kill the opponent, you can revive and resume game spawn, as a game that allows teamplay and skills, bf2 has no competition.

call of duty isnt cutting it.

however, looking forward a 5890 tho

[Glow9]

Has anyone seen a 5850 review yet? I don't mean the simulated one

[Xoulz]

But it isn't. Everyone who played Q3 seriously knows about the com_maxfps 120 and what it does for them. Having graphics and physics 1:1 allows for the unique trick jumping possibilities, and not only that, it is the ONE and ONLY engine that has no solid limits, enabling skilled players to move much faster and to jump much further.

Any lucky dude can score against a professional player in ANY OTHER GAME, but Q3 is the only game where even minor differences in skill result in a whole dozen of cans of whoopass for the one who is less experienced. I've played with people that thought of themselves as of GOOD GAMERS, having good skills in other FPS games like CS or COD, and when I play Q3 with them it is a major ownage. It is something very special to play with someone who thinks he knows FPS because he is good at some game, and in Q3 in a quick 15 minutes game the end result is like 40:-4, yes thats negative 4 for the "pro gamer" who thought he is any good at quake for being good at some other FPS.

No other game can do it. As old and outdated Q3 is, in my book it has the best gameplay physics up to date. I don't mean pure eye candy physics like nvidia does, but GAMEPLAY physics.

The Battlefield series one-ups Q3 in gameplay and physics. Every bullet has it's own mass, speed, etc..

And YES, these types of games are a joy to play leaving other FPS games lacking.

[conqr]

But it isn't. Everyone who played Q3 seriously knows about the com_maxfps 120 and what it does for them. Having graphics and physics 1:1 allows for the unique trick jumping possibilities, and not only that, it is the ONE and ONLY engine that has no solid limits, enabling skilled players to move much faster and to jump much further.

Any lucky dude can score against a professional player in ANY OTHER GAME, but Q3 is the only game where even minor differences in skill result in a whole dozen of cans of whoopass for the one who is less experienced. I've played with people that thought of themselves as of GOOD GAMERS, having good skills in other FPS games like CS or COD, and when I play Q3 with them it is a major ownage. It is something very special to play with someone who thinks he knows FPS because he is good at some game, and in Q3 in a quick 15 minutes game the end result is like 40:-4, yes thats negative 4 for the "pro gamer" who thought he is any good at quake for being good at some other FPS.

No other game can do it. As old and outdated Q3 is, in my book it has the best gameplay physics up to date. I don't mean pure eye candy physics like nvidia does, but GAMEPLAY physics.

There is at least one other game like q3, Half life Adrenalin gamer. In that difference is usually much higher than for example that 40:-4.

So you are saying that Quake 3 would be considered a tactical game? lol.

Sure it is. Right from the very start.. u spawn, and that very moment u need to plan a route to the possible best items according to what direction u heard ur opponent, what options he/she has and how to counter them, and do it fast, and.. Oh well good old times...

[joshua7]

Has anyone seen a 5850 review yet? I don't mean the simulated one

Yeah, that is what I am looking for, too, but nothing yet...

[eric66]

29 is the day for 5850

[purecain]

dammit... i couldnt wait for the 2gb model... powercolor 5870 on its way....

[Motiv]

But it isn't. Everyone who played Q3 seriously knows about the com_maxfps 120 and what it does for them. Having graphics and physics 1:1 allows for the unique trick jumping possibilities, and not only that, it is the ONE and ONLY engine that has no solid limits, enabling skilled players to move much faster and to jump much further.

THe CoD franchise also allows the same.

Any lucky dude can score against a professional player in ANY OTHER GAME, but Q3 is the only game where even minor differences in skill result in a whole dozen of cans of whoopass for the one who is less experienced. I've played with people that thought of themselves as of GOOD GAMERS, having good skills in other FPS games like CS or COD, and when I play Q3 with them it is a major ownage. It is something very special to play with someone who thinks he knows FPS because he is good at some game, and in Q3 in a quick 15 minutes game the end result is like 40:-4, yes thats negative 4 for the "pro gamer" who thought he is any good at quake for being good at some other FPS.

No other game can do it. As old and outdated Q3 is, in my book it has the best gameplay physics up to date. I don't mean pure eye candy physics like nvidia does, but GAMEPLAY physics.

The same applies to any game out there. Put a Q3 player on a CoD map and you'll get the same result. CoD1&2 especially are far harder to master than the newer carebear CoDs but that still is more difficult to master.

You're just making things up if you think transitioning from Q3 to any other FPS makes you a god on them, while going the other way you would be a noob. Almost an elitist statement in fact.

[rusty]

when is 2gb coming out ?

[Motiv]

^^ Well I was a Q3 player and I do pretty good in COD2 - for a casual gamer my stats are better than 90% of the kids that play non stop all the time, the so called pro gamers.


It is NOT VICE versa by any means. A good Q3 player has above decent performance in any FPS, while the latter is literally pathetic in Q3. Maybe your skills are average and that's not your point of view, but I know many quality Q3 players that totally own not only in Q3 but in every other FPS then get into. Q3 requires a lot of tactic and tracing opponents psyche all the time, plus it is really encouraging extremes when it comes to reflexes. Let me put it this way - IF YOU CAN DRIVE WELL AT 150 MPH you can also drive at 50 MPH, but good performance at 50 MPH does not guarantee the same performance at 150 MPH. It is that simple - quake 3 is demanding and it can take quite the skill, that's why between 2 players that are close in skill can still result in a tremendous difference in the end score. While in other games you are limited by the engine, resulting in a bottleneck for gaming performance. You are not as good as you are, but as good as the engine allows you. In Q3 the only bottleneck is the player himself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiolB5OCyeU

I mean... if you ever played Q3 seriously - everything else is like slow motion for you, which makes things very very easy.

Don't try to be condescending, you know nothing of my skill level and I know nothing of yours. For someone who says he is such a star at the game, yet thinks everyone else is crap, just goes to show you are probably living in a surreal world of your own. So please, drop the e-penis crap, I don't believe you and I doubt anyone else does.

All FPS games require the gamer to know the layout of the game, the mechanics of the game and have twitch reactions. If you believe that you have to be a higher skill to play Q3, than say CS or CoD, then I suspect you are probably a med gamer and haven't played many games in a dedicated team.

Twitch gaming does not equal skill and in your case, public gaming certainly does not equal skilled gaming.

[Motiv]

Now I am a looser because I say you are wrong? LOL killer logic dude However the things you say don't really indicate you having a too good idea of what you really speak. You are probably one of the millions who think they will be able to score a frag against a skilled q3 player - well, don't take my word on it - go and play some Q3 with a pro player and you will realize precisely what I am talking about. Until you do so - you are better of keeping that mouth shut instead of going for personal attacks just because because someone is disagreeing with motiv boy

come on now LOR boy, perhaps you would like to back up your claims of a Q3 player is better than any other type of player? or that a Q3 player can walk into a CS team or CoD team and be 'pro'

I know you can't back it up because you are probably a pub player of medium skill. I'm not making a personal attack on you, just as you are not by calling people average skill if they are not a pro Q3 player.

I may not be a pro player but I've played against some of the best in the CoD franchise and been at the top of the ED league and CB-uk league in CoD1, Cod2 and Cod4. So, I can speak with experience from that stand point.

I don't competitively game anymore but I know from past experience that Q3, CS, CSS and CoD are all games that have players of equal skill. No one game makes a player better.

I would prefer to have a CS player in a S&D match with me, that a Q3 player as the game type is far similar. In Q3, I would prefer a UT player at my side, than a CS player due to similar game types.

[Motiv]

I suggest you carefully read what I am about to say and get over with it.

What I've said is a good Q3 player does pretty well in all FPS games - if you knew such people you would know, but you obviously do not. In contrast people that have good skills in other FPS games usually are getting totally OWNED in Q3.

Maybe you are in for some backing up of your words? I don't play COD4, but I play COD2, so we can a few games in bothQ3 and COD2 and then compare the results? I won't go to show off by being on top of any "leagues" but I can simply play a few games with you. I am a casual gamer - 2-3 hours a week, but I think you will be humiliated in the Q3 match... for the COD2 dunno, lets just say I would not put money on you - winning. Even if you manage to get a good score in COD2 - it will be nowhere near the pwnage you're gonna get in Q3. Lets see how you do then? Hope your skills match the size of that mouth of yours

So basically, you're a pub hero Q3 fan boy. That's basically what you are saying.

You have no evidence to back up this weird claim that a Q3 player is greater than all, just your pub play.

Where as I'm happy to say all gamers of FPS games are basically of equal skill and will be able, with time, to transition over to a new game. with varying degrees of success.

I back my claims up with playing competitively in the past in a few games, where you base it on playing q3 at pub level?

I've nothing against public play and I'm sure you're dead good but let's be honest, there are quite a few people on this forum who play in CAL and I would suspect that everyone of these would back me up compared to your wild "Q3 gamers are the best" fanboyism.

[zalbard]

Enough with the offtopic imo.
5850 reviews should be coming out soon, according to FUD they are going to ship them soon.

[Hornet331]

watch it loe get his friends...

Thats the worse way to make a point... ever...

[Manicdan]

fact: people who have been playing FPS since Q3 and CS (before source) probably have too much experience with FPS and are probably good. lets end the offtopic as its very moot.

[Origin_Unknown]

when is 2gb coming out ?

hopefully soon! i'm holding off untill then

[Infa]

Must agree on that Q3 pro players are pretty awsome, as an avarage quaker, and I have played since even before QW got into this world.. but only as a loneranger even after 10 years of q3, mostly RA3, i get my butt so kicked by players i cant believe my eyes sometimes, have never stopped playing ra3, its the most fun and intense game ever made IMO you can only get better! i would like to see print of your games if there will be any with /stats :P

And yes, this 5850? must be really a bang buck? looks like my upgrade after 3 years of my 8800GT 5850 beating a 285... seems goood

[Det0x]

Must agree on that Q3 pro players are pretty awsome, as an avarage quaker, and I have played since even before QW got into this world.. but only as a loneranger even after 10 years of q3, mostly RA3, i get my butt so kicked by players i cant believe my eyes sometimes, have never stopped playing ra3, its the most fun and intense game ever made IMO you can only get better! i would like to see print of your games if there will be any with /stats :P

HI2U ?

Any specs of 5890 yet ?

[Lightman]

Hint:



That's when