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Thread: [Test Report] Fuzion V2 - Teaching an Old Dog New Tricks

  1. #1
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    Well, where to begin? I guess the beginning.....

    Anybody remember the glory days of the D-Tek Fuzion? The V1 came out and pretty much rocked everyone's world...it was a great performer with both single die CPUs and dual-die CPUs. The nozzles and washer gave tweakers something to do and test and play with...and ultimately, gave people even better performance. The V2 followed with much of the same design, just modernized in appearance and mounting kit. The performance was a little better and it was fully compatible with the old nozzle kit. With it also came a standard Pro-Mount kit.

    The LGA775 Pro-Mount kit was the first great mounting kit for waterblocks. It used 4 captive screws and a backplate...tighten the screws until they bottom out and you're done. You got a consistent, high-pressure mount and you could do it in seconds.

    Since then, many, many waterblocks have debuted and the competition has largely caught up and even a few have surpassed the Fuzion V2. Even the great Pro-Mount kit was dethroned by Swiftech's GTZ mounting as best-in-show by using user-friendly thumbscrews.

    I tested the Fuzion V2 against the Swiftech GTZ back in early May on a Core 2 Quad, and the much-newer GTZ managed to pull ahead a little bit, though the FV2 still had a strong showing. I haven't tested it on a Core 2 Duo yet (that testbed gets lowest priority due to the fact it's mostly antiquated), but I did test it on LGA1366 with D-Tek's newest Pro-Mount. The results weren't pretty for D-Tek.

    While the new Pro-Mount matched the GTZ's awesome mounting kit on all fronts, the performance of the block was really lacking. Or so I thought.

    Turns out, through all the the hullabaloo of the LGA1366 Pro-Mount's delayed launch and Fuzion V1 incompatibility, the LGA1366 Pro-Mount was also fatally flawed in basic design. Essentially, it throws like a girl.

    I declared the Fuzion V2 as non-competitive on i7 and other reviews didn't show it performed any better. All this time though, the problem hasn't been the block--it's been the mounting system.

    I had a hunch it was part of the problem, but at 5 days a test, I wasn't about to engage in any sort of trials to chase a gain that might not exist. Skinnee, in his own tests, thought it might be part of the problem as well. Heck, I'm sure most people who used the Fuzion V2 on LGA1366 probably thought at one point, "this doesn't feel right."

    When mounting the Fuzion V2 on LGA1366, there's no resistance when tightening the block down. It's not any sort of WD-40 magic or anything like that...there genuinely isn't any sort of tension when tightening down. When unmounting the block, TIM never had any sort of fractal spread pattern (a sign of a good mount with some TIMs--MX-2 included). Still though, in my mind, the block was just old and showing its age and was no longer worth testing.

    Then, recently, D-Tek approached skinneelabs and asked us to try a bow in the block to see if it closed the gap in performance. My new testbed is 98% complete and one of the big advantages of it is that I can completely test a block in a little over a day. If I choose not to do the entire flowrate spectrum of testing, I can get a suite of testing done in half a day. And I had a long weekend....so I took on the task of eeking out a little more performance from the Fuzion V2. Turns out, there's a lot of performance to be gained.

    The first thing you test when you want to see what performance gains are available? A control test of course

    After 5 mounts, I had a good idea how it would perform on my testbed: average core temperatures corrected for 25C water temperature were just under 70C, ringing in at 69.83C.

    Then I moved to D-Tek's suggestion: bow the block. I did this by replacing the stock o-ring with a standard #9 o-ring. It's the same overall diameter, but a little thicker. It's a little too thick to fit into the recess of the midplate, so the bow was pretty evident when you held a straightedge to the base. So was the change in performance...just not for the better. Performance got noticeably worse. It was so bad that I stopped after three mounts, I didn't want to waste my time with it any more. Flowrate also went down from 1.77GPM to 1.72GPM. Contact on the CPU went from bad to horrible, with the contact area being smaller than a dime. The average core temperature, corrected for 25C water, was 71.85C. 2C worse, yikes.

    Okay, back to the drawing board. Despite the 2C increase in average temperatures, the hottest core only went up a fraction of a degree. Based on that, I figured the bow was something to keep, but that the tiny contact area and general lack of mounting pressure was what needed to be fixed.

    I had two possible paths to take to increase mounting pressure: either use a washer (or washers) or swap out the springs. I looked around my 'playroom' a bit and didn't find any washers that fit the bill, so I started to look for an even greater longshot, better springs. Turns out, I got more than lucky...Thermalright did the work for me. When Thermalright released an LGA1366 kit for their vaunted TRUE heatsink, they addressed their mounting pressure issue by using longer and stronger springs. They're 1/8" longer than D-Tek's stock springs and require significantly more force to compress. And they're gunmetal colored too, which is a nice touch.

    So I swapped out the springs, and retested...performance got significantly better with the high-pressure mount and the bow compared to both stock and especially the bowed configuration. Flowrate was still 'down' at 1.72GPM, but temperatures also dropped to 68.05C after 5 mounts. Almost a 2C drop over stock and nearly a 4C drop compared to the bowed config, nice.

    Contact, visually, still wasn't that great though. Everything but the extreme center of the IHS was pretty thickly clad with TIM. So I thought to remove the bow and just try the stock o-ring in the midplate as well as the high-pressure mount. Results were awesome and made the tests totally worthwhile, with the average core temperatures, corrected for 25C water temps, were a very low 67.46C. That's nearly a 2.5C drop on my testbed...and flowrates were back up to their normal 1.77GPM.

    Alright, now that we have all our data, let's put it in a chart:


    To put that performance in perspective, I recently tested the famed Heatkiller 3.0 LT and, it's budgeted brother, Heatkiller 3.0 LC on the same exact testbed. If you put 1.77GPM and 67.46C on the 25C water temp chart, you get a datapoint that falls almost exactly on the Heatkiller LC's best-as-tested vertical configuration. It also puts the Fuzion V2 within 2C of the Heatkiller 3.0 LT, regarded by many as the best performing block on the market. Not bad for a block that debuted years ago.

    Good enough that I've added it to my Roundup #2 list (being genuinely interested in what it can do with a little bit more tweaking and the nozzles). Good enough that I no longer consider it a block that is a liability of a high-performance loop. Good enough to just be called really good--the old dog still has some life in it.

    So how does someone else get this performance themselves? Few easy ways:
    1) get some washers and tinker yourself (Home Depot and Lowes should both have washers that work).
    2) pick up a Thermalright LGA1366 kit, ~$10. Petra's, P-PCs, Jab-tech, Sidewinder (1, 2), CrazyPC, etc.
    3) try some other stuff yourself--turning the bracket upside-down might do the trick as well.

    For bargain hunters, the Fuzion V2 becomes pretty attractive as well....often you can find them in FS sections of forums for dirt cheap and washers would only be a couple dollars...combine the two and you get a very low pricepoint for a cooler that performs within a couple degrees of the best, not bad.

    Anyway, thanks for reading another wall of text, I promise real reviews will have more pictures and graphs to digest, but I wanted to keep this one super simple in terms of data

  2. #2
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    Nice read. I figured something was up since the Sapphire does pretty good in reviews on the I7 and it is built pretty similar to the Fuzion. Thanks for investigating this, although I do not have the Fuzion anymore, it's nice to see the old Gal come back from the grave.
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  3. #3
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    modifying the block..ummm sure is nice..but most prolly won't get the same result...but some don't oc that much anyways..i'd rather get a block that would work out of the box.

    the lack of bow...or the how flat it is ...is the flaw imo..if you apply to much pressure the center space in on the cpu would have less pressure as the corners would accumulate with pressure.
    Last edited by Hondacity; 09-08-2009 at 01:28 AM.


  4. #4
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    This is great.. I was all set to spend the money on the HK to replace my V2 when I moved to Nehalem but if all it takes is some washers or just better springs... wooee! Thanks VAPOR!
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  5. #5
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    Awesome, I love it when old hardware gets tossed aside only to be revived again!!

  6. #6
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    Nice work Vapor... I'm having issues with the Yellowstone block having contact issues... can't get proper contact at all, might need stiffer springs too

  7. #7
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    Yeah, this was an interesting little test. Really proved a point to me: leave no stone unturned. Going forward with my second roundup, I'll definitely try to eek out all the performance I can from the various blocks (within the normal means of an end-user....I won't be machining into the blocks or anything like that).

    I already have 2 modifications in mind for the GTZ, and concocting some ideas for the Supremes/HKs/CPU-350.

  8. #8
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    It's why I am still using my D-Tek V1. I threw out the springs, cut down the bolts and used the EK backplate and cranked her down. Performance is awesome and found no need to upgrade it yet even thought the HK CU with nickel plate is damn gorgeous.

  9. #9
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    Seems like everyone was getting poor TIM joint...mount pressure will throw block hydraulics out the window every time. Good work Vapor!

    Quote Originally Posted by Leeghoofd View Post
    Nice work Vapor... I'm having issues with the Yellowstone block having contact issues... can't get proper contact at all, might need stiffer springs too
    The AC Yellowstone is tricky, you really need to balance the four springs... try to get them withing 0.1mm of each other. Also, the base plate does have a raised spot (rectangle actually) right in the middle.

  10. #10
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    I'm using a digital caliber to have the same spring tension, so balance should be good (normally). Have tried several lenghts and even bolted it all the way down...the TIM only spreads about 1cm in the middle rest of the TIM doesn't spread at all, this mount after mount ( so it seems to have a very small contact surface with my cores ) Gonna check this week with a razor blade to see how it's shaped...

    Sorry to go off topic Vapor

  11. #11
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    you will find a rectangular bump right in the middle, about 7mm by 3mm... atleast thats how mine was. Its not quite a step, but its definitely a bump and that should sit right in the middle of the IHS.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
    I'll definitely try to eek out all the performance I can from the various blocks
    Really OT, but it's 'eke', not 'eek'. Pronounced like 'eek', though.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeathWalking View Post
    Really OT, but it's 'eke', not 'eek'. Pronounced like 'eek', though.
    Ah, stupid mistake on my part

    thanks

  14. #14
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    Thank you, Vapor...thank you, thank you, thank you! You just saved me $60 on my (hopefully incoming) i7 860. Hmm; think my mount would still be ok? I've got the older non-pro mount still.
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  15. #15
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    The old style of mount shouldn't have this problem at all...it can be tightened WAY past ideal

    How are you planning on getting an FV2 on an LGA1156 board? You getting an EVGA? I think they're the only ones with LGA775 holes.

  16. #16
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    Yep, should be the P55 FTW (fingers crossed). Thanks!
    Last edited by hokiealumnus; 09-08-2009 at 06:20 PM.
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  17. #17
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    I remember reading someone suggesting that you should mount the block only rather loosely. Then fire up the computer, and use any program to put a constant max. load on the cpu. Then tighten the block while monitoring the temperatures. It was suggested that this way you can find the ideal mounting pressure because at some point, a tighter mount would lead to higher temps. Furthermore it also supposedly helps to heat up the TIM and make it easier to spread out.

    What are your takes on this point? Is this a valid assumption and would you recommend this?
    Last edited by lucas81; 09-09-2009 at 04:53 AM.

  18. #18
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    I have an extra 1366 mount from my TRUE. Hmmm. I think i'll try to "put some pressure" on my quad... It's not the poor nehalem mount, but it always feels as if I could tighten the screws more.

    Thanks vapor for putting this up. You've inspired me to break down my loop... Again... yay

  19. #19
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    The V1 will perform better than the V2 if you want to tweak... EK barb o-ring between top and mid chamber (for a pretty serious bow) and then use the 4.5mm nozzle. My belief is that this should be close to the best performing block on the planet. Still.

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  20. #20
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    That's interesting, I'll have to try that. I still have a Fuzion V1 lying around here somewhere.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikhsub1 View Post
    The V1 will perform better than the V2 if you want to tweak... EK barb o-ring between top and mid chamber (for a pretty serious bow) and then use the 4.5mm nozzle. My belief is that this should be close to the best performing block on the planet. Still.
    Probably is. But very restrictive. And if you're going for that kind of restriction, Koolance probably does it better. Maybe. Be interesting to see.
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  22. #22
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    It's actually not as restrictive as you think... I don't have a flow meter but it is far less than the Supreme.

    *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranker View Post
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  23. #23
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    Wow what a timely post !! I was just putting my new rig through a torture test and being old school I just bought a new v2 with the new stock mount, because I like the v1 so much, but didn't think it would cut it on an i7.

    I was not pleased with the performance of the fusion one bit! I was getting a delta T of around 45c (between water in and core temp) under full load at 4Ghz and 1.3V. I've remounted a couple of times and the mount is fine. But I was thinking that there wasn't enough pressure on the mount. Your work has confirmed that and now for some modes
    Oh and the Rad has to be replaced as it just doesn't have the power. I've not done my home work yet but I'm hoping the three fan MCR will handle it as I need a thin Rad for my current setup and most the newer one's are much thicker. Or maybe it's time to build a new case

    Thank You for your efforts !!

  24. #24
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    the dtek fv2 should handle mild oc but compared to others...bleh


  25. #25
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    Wait, how do you even mount a FV2 on a 1366 these days?
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