[Project] :::Flow::: (SNiiPE's V2110) - Resurrected

[3Z3VH]

Sniipe: First of all GREAT job on this one ! It is a really impressive and clean build !

Also, I don't want to sound negative or anything, so don't take this as me saying I dislike it... but the one thing I would change, is I would neaten up those PCI-e power wires. Right now they all kind of twist randomly around each other. Making them all parallel like the 24-pin Mobo header would go a long way to making it perfect.

Again, great job !

[millertime359]

So are they?
Colored wires?

as Zanz said. He just got all blue wire and rewired everything. Just got to take a little more care on keeping track of which wire is which.

[perkam]

Who would've thought our very own Snipe was capable of this !?!?!?!

I'm sure this'll get featured in a magazine real soon

Awesome workmanship and dedication m8. Just awesome

Also, just on the side, how much would you charge for the parts + labor on that thing if it was a build for a client?

Perkam

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

Who would've thought our very own Snipe was capable of this !?!?!?!

I'm sure this'll get featured in a magazine real soon

Awesome workmanship and dedication m8. Just awesome

Also, just on the side, how much would you charge for the parts + labor on that thing if it was a build for a client?

Perkam

hehe perkam, I thought you would never notice you know I am on MDPC already with my last system right? you sent me that PM with charles' latest beautiful build and I never replied but I was gonna say "yeah I am on that site too"

but yeah if I was gonna charge for this, its an immeasurable amount of hours put into design, building, it (and unless I value myself at like $6/hr) and the price would jump well over $12,000 USD

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

Some Might wonder why I am posting this next update, below are my 2 reasons, PLEASE don't hold back on the comments, I want to hear what you think.

1) In case you read the permafrost worklog, Nils has a way of getting to me, he eats away at me with his comments and honestly I lose sleep over the little things that he so deftly points out to me the instant he looks at a picture, things I don't even think about. This backside was something I thought about before showing it to Nils - quite a lot actually and I almost settled. But I showed it to Nils and Charles and they both chewed me up and spit me out over it - so I went back, gave it some thoughts and dug around for the right parts to make it better.

2) Bit-tech has a motto for its worklog posters that I quite like in this situation, that is "we want to see your successes and your failures" This is most definitely one of my failures, I am not scared of my failures though I am man enough to admit them and I am smart enough to learn from them. I felt bad all day today when thinking of what Nils had said to me (motivated bad, not sad bad so no worries Nils)

Before (wired for the LAN - short on supplies):




After my work on it tonight:



List of fixes:
-Heatshrunk ALL white connectors and colored wires Black
-Added more P-clips holding the 24-pin root wires and PCIE wires tidier
-Pulled 24-pin root wires in tighter to the PSU and made them much neater
-Added black painted modder's mesh cover to hide the Inherently tangled 24-pin (it is not untangle-able)
-added Rubber cover to the wire mess on the 5.25"


I think it looks a LOT better... at least for something that cant be seen when the case is together...

[skinnee]

SNiiPE... everyone knows I can't build anywhere your level, hell I can't even see Charles's level from here. With that stated up front, I'll give you my honest opinion. I'm not a fan of this build as a whole, there are several elements that I do like, but not together in one build. The back side of the mobo tray is no where near what I expected out of you and was shocked to see the nibbler job. Like I said, some elements, just not together in one build...I can tell you rushed on this build.

The fixes you implemented on the back of the mobo tray are just hiding the mess you know you created, you don't want to look at it so just cover it up. I've been there, hell thats how I clean when my wife isn't looking.

My opinion, take it for what its worth...

[Dangals]

I agree with what Skinnee has posted as to be honest it kind of feels like when I was a little kid and mum asked me to clean my room and my response to that was to throw a sheet over it and say “look its clean you can’t see any mess.”

It is a shame as I feel that this really lets down your build as all the attention has been given to the main side and it feels like you have rushed to finish it off and just stuffed everything back here with no real concern to the little details. Other things like the fill port on top really detract from the overall cleanliness of the build and I cannot see why you would even include it. And to be really candid I cannot feel any flow to the loop whatsoever. I just cannot put together the connection between the name and what is being shown – sorry.

Now this is just my opinion and there are certainly some things that I like about this build but as a whole it just does not feel up to the standard I expected of you.

My

[twwen2]

SNiiPE... everyone knows I can't build anywhere your level, hell I can't even see Charles's level from here. With that stated up front, I'll give you my honest opinion. I'm not a fan of this build as a whole, there are several elements that I do like, but not together in one build. The back side of the mobo tray is no where near what I expected out of you and was shocked to see the nibbler job. Like I said, some elements, just not together in one build...I can tell you rushed on this build.

The fixes you implemented on the back of the mobo tray are just hiding the mess you know you created, you don't want to look at it so just cover it up. I've been there, hell thats how I clean when my wife isn't looking.

My opinion, take it for what its worth...

I would agree to a point. I'm always amazed at just how neat some of the really good builds are, especially the wire managment on the back-side. Charles' murdermods are just exceptional in this regard. I can never seem to reach the same neatness on my builds, there's always a connector or wire left over that needs to be shoved behind something or tucked away out of sight.

As for this build, I still think the overall design and presentation is incredible, and I don't blame sniipe for covering the mess up like that, you're under a lot of time pressure here mate. As it stands now, it's an acceptable solution but like skinnee, i reckon with a bit more time you can do even better!

Keep at it mate, we appreciate your efforts.

[Kibbler]

My 2 cents on the matter have been summed up quite well by skinnee and Dangals. IMHO I would only add that, in principle, a build should have nothing to hide, and every detail should be attended to with the expectation of being scrutinized. This is true for your case here and TJ07s for example, although the built-in compartmentalization gives a bit more flexibility on where to tuck things away. This is doubly true for wide-open cases e.g. my Pinnacle or other MM cases, where it's impossible to hide things even if I wanted to. "Out of sight, out of mind" must be put...well, out of mind.

I do wish to say that your workmanship and skill is obviously (I mean, "duh" obviously, just look at the photos) very high caliber, and definitely inspiring. It would have been icing on the cake to see the same effort on the less visible side of things. That nibbler cut...oooh...if it were my case and even if I never showed it to anyone else, it would eat me up from inside. You know that feeling? Like you know in your heart that it could have been done better.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

I would like to note one thing - there is a specific reason that I did some things the way I did -

enermax uses y-splitters on the the wires out of the PSU - so midway up the red wire out of the PSU it splits into 3 wires. this makes it physically impossible to untangle the wires in their current state (save one fix that thought of which I ordered parts to do just a minute ago)

Secondly, some of you are comparing this to a TJ07 and I have this to say to you - you have no less (probably more) than twice the wire space I have to work with behind the tray. I Have a full 9.5mm to work with behind the tray and certain methods to flatten the cables so that my side panel doesnt bow out like a turtles shell. I am looking for the proper exterior look over the proper interior one here.

these are NOT excuses and I will be doing everything I can to work on this backplane this week and next thank you guys for your criticisms :\

[Quixylvre]

My opinion is that form should follow function. Style for style's sake is perfectly fine as long as it doesn't impede functionality, and it's done tastefully. If that means hiding some of the mess of wires away, or hiding a nibbler job, so be it. While I agree it'd look better if it didn't have any tangles to hide, I think if your goal is a clean, streamlined look (which is what I interpret this build as trying to deliver) then there is nothing wrong with hiding the tangle to achieve that end if it's necessary. As I'm pretty sure this build won't be displaying the back of the motherboard tray, it's excusable, and hey, if push came to shove SNiiPE could always get an extra mobo tray for this case and re-do it without the nibbler bite-mark and such, right?

[dreamaxx]

Aww, I actually quite like the idea of the grill, and the front of the case is absolutely impeccable. It is very difficult to get the back looking just as gorgeous everyone, so you have to give him a little leeway. I would like to see that horrid nibbler area, and where there is electrical tape or something cleaned up a bit coz I think that is perfectly easy to do. But the rest of it looks really good to me! Sniipe, I truly do think you have done a great job. Wish I could get my case cut with such precision, I think I need to make my own router!

[paul_]

I agree with some of the aforementioned comments. I agree that the nibbler job had shivers running up my spine, though I understand that with the time constraints you had no real other option. That being said, I want to stand back and look at this fairly. You have put so much hardware into this computer that a dead-simple, dead-sexy wiring job like Permafrost had is just damn near impossible, and I am tempted to put it at impossible today. You have so many difficult bits to work with here (a transparent block in the 5.25" cage, removing a big wire-management area; using a quad fan controller [man, do I know how bad that thing is to wire]; the list goes on and on. However, you have pulled off a great job, even in the back, IMHO. I can appreciate all the work you have done to the rear panel, but my concern is that you have covered most of it up, so no one can see the great job you did. Yes, the 24-pin isn't perfectly organized, but you improved it bigtime, along with the rest of the wiring. Take that sheet of mesh off and show off your work!

I give you huge props for posting these pictures out for us to comment on, and I just hope my two cents can make a difference.

-Paul

[Shlomo]

Sorry but I wholly disagree with many of the former comments. The back isn't on display, it is never seen, it doesn't matter. It's like complaining that the foam padding in a seat looks like crap...even though the seat is covered in awesome supple soft and sexy leather.

The mesh, eh it can go, but overall I couldn't give a rats behind on how an unseen, hidden portion of a build looks. (in this case, it still looks fine, its not like its hideous back there compared to the rest). Give it some more work, and it'll be perfectly fine. I will second ditching the mesh at least, it seems very much out of place.

Overall i'd say yes it isn't up to par as the rest of the build. No, it is nowhere close to detracting to the build for me, and yes, this is most definitely a MDPC.

[faster3200]

Sorry but I wholly disagree with many of the former comments. The back isn't on display, it is never seen, it doesn't matter. It's like complaining that the foam padding in a seat looks like crap...even though the seat is covered in awesome supple soft and sexy leather.

The mesh, eh it can go, but overall I couldn't give a rats behind on how an unseen, hidden portion of a build looks. (in this case, it still looks fine, its not like its hideous back there compared to the rest). Give it some more work, and it'll be perfectly fine. I will second ditching the mesh at least, it seems very much out of place.

I was going to say this same thing, until I thought about it.

When I am making a website and I want to set the background color I could either do <body bgcolor=""> or I could set the color in the CSS, like I am supposed to. Both with give the the same output on screen and unless you looked at the source you would never be able to tell the difference. However, one is the correct way to do it and one is the wrong way.

Just because no one will see it does not make it ok. If you are striving for perfection there can be no compromises.

Sniipe, I love that comp so much. It looks amazing and I can tell you put some thought into it. Very nice job.

PM sent.

[zanzabar]

with the tj07 there is a good 1/2-5/8" of space on the back of MB tray to the back of the case door or with a mountain mod its split in half, with almost everything else including the v2110 u have just under 1/4" other than making a giant ribbon for each set of cables and soldering all of the device connectors directly to the psu there is nothing that u can do. if u have a larger back side of the case u can make a giant sleeve and keep it all bound up. i have the same wire management problems on my p180 i cant run things through the back since its to small and i would have to do individual or pair sleeving and it would be a mess or run them up the center panel and make it a mess

so IMO it comes down to what he has now, or soldering everything together

[skinnee]

Let me clarify my statement from above

The fixes you implemented on the back of the mobo tray are just hiding the mess you know you created

I'll be a bit more specific I guess...

It has nothing to do with the space...there is blue electrical tape in the before lan party image.

[Chicken Patty]

sniipe, I must say you did a great job of fixing it up bro. Im not great at pointing out the smallest details, but After the effort you have put into this, I say you did a heck of a job even with the backside of the case. Bravo!

[shazza]

Ian, just to add a few comments:

You've done a marvelous job with this build. You obviously spent hours doing the design, and then made sure it was well-executed. The case is stunning - a big improvement on it's rather mundane/office-appropriate look before (that's not a dig on the case - I like that look for some applications). You won the modding competition; you won the new CPU; you've received many well-deserved kudos, and you've progressed your reputation which will no doubt lead to more sponsored builds. That would be enough for most people. BUT, hats off to you for wanting to make it perfect.

I just reviewed the MDPC website for a quick check. I didn't look at all the systems, but you'll notice that not all have photos of the back of the motherboard area (not saying they aren't well done, just maybe there were no pics or they weren't exciting enough to show). But, when you do see one with this part showing - it's hard not to go "WOW." I can't speak for Nils and his secret committee, but I'd guess this absolutely perfect/no compromise trend in ALL areas of the case is one we'll continue to see evolve. In fact, I don't recall seeing the back of the motherboard on PermaFrost either, so not sure if it received the same attention to detail as the rest of the system. What made PermaFrost standout was the white interior, the colors, the way you laid out the interior, and the wonderful photography. Now that others have showcased the back of the case, that pushes the bar for everyone else - just as you have raised it when it comes to case design, and now innovative 24-pin wire management.

Soooo ... I guess it really is up to you as to where you want to go with the build. I don't think MDPC should necessarily be everyone's goal (I'm guessing it is one of yours). Fit for purpose is up to the individual. But, in one of your earlier comments, you said it would be over $12K if you were building this for a client. What do you think the client would expect for that amount of money? Most importantly, it's what satisfies you, not any of us.

You've told us you had time pressures with the last of the build. Hopefully you have some time now to work on it some more, if you so choose. Of course, it's not as much fun redoing things as it is designing and creating something new. Good Luck, and I hope you're having fun in the process!

(apologies for going a bit philosophical here; some of the responses to your question just got me pondering . . .)

To answer your specific question on how it looks now -- much better in the after pic. I see you changed out the white molex and 8-pin connector - that helps a lot. The thing that grabs my eye now are the unsleeved portions of the fan wires.

[zanzabar]

....

I'll be a bit more specific I guess...

It has nothing to do with the space...there is blue electrical tape in the before lan party image.

he has the 8 pin soldered to the back of the board, isnt the electrical tape needed to keep it from causing problems

[DragoonXX]

there is also a little bit of blue electrical tape in the wiring harness to the left right above some molexes- looks like its from splice work

[dualbrain]

Great to see you are working on the backside Ian!!!
There is a saying I used one day: "When you think it's done, it just begins!"

And when it comes to MDPC: Why showing something now if it can be even better after a little redo. Get to the max. That's what it's about. And why older systems didn't need to show of the backside? As Shazza found out: It wasn't important, but "the C." forces us to go to that level now. Always compare with the latest 2-3. The rest is history and has it's place because by that time it was on top and inspiring: The foundation of what we see today. And so it goes on and on.

Go for it Ian

[Laine]

Hey Snipe, I've got a few ideas on the backside giving it a kind of clean mac-feeling, of course with it's own twist.

I'll shoot you a PM with some sketches if you're interested.
Cheers.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

Let me clarify my statement from above

I'll be a bit more specific I guess...

It has nothing to do with the space...there is blue electrical tape in the before lan party image.

there is also a little bit of blue electrical tape in the wiring harness to the left right above some molexes- looks like its from splice work

Guys, I am not about to play with fire in my computer, the electrical tape @ the 8-pin stays no matter what, maybe I'll change it to black

as far as the molex electrical tape, that is covered now by the black rubber in there, I ordered the right stuff to fix it in my order last night

Hey Snipe, I've got a few ideas on the backside giving it a kind of clean mac-feeling, of course with it's own twist.

I'll shoot you a PM with some sketches if you're interested.
Cheers.

I would love to hear your ideas Laine

Ian, just to add a few comments:

You've done a marvelous job with this build. You obviously spent hours doing the design, and then made sure it was well-executed. The case is stunning - a big improvement on it's rather mundane/office-appropriate look before (that's not a dig on the case - I like that look for some applications). You won the modding competition; you won the new CPU; you've received many well-deserved kudos, and you've progressed your reputation which will no doubt lead to more sponsored builds. That would be enough for most people. BUT, hats off to you for wanting to make it perfect.

I just reviewed the MDPC website for a quick check. I didn't look at all the systems, but you'll notice that not all have photos of the back of the motherboard area (not saying they aren't well done, just maybe there were no pics or they weren't exciting enough to show). But, when you do see one with this part showing - it's hard not to go "WOW." I can't speak for Nils and his secret committee, but I'd guess this absolutely perfect/no compromise trend in ALL areas of the case is one we'll continue to see evolve. In fact, I don't recall seeing the back of the motherboard on PermaFrost either, so not sure if it received the same attention to detail as the rest of the system. What made PermaFrost standout was the white interior, the colors, the way you laid out the interior, and the wonderful photography. Now that others have showcased the back of the case, that pushes the bar for everyone else - just as you have raised it when it comes to case design, and now innovative 24-pin wire management.

Soooo ... I guess it really is up to you as to where you want to go with the build. I don't think MDPC should necessarily be everyone's goal (I'm guessing it is one of yours). Fit for purpose is up to the individual. But, in one of your earlier comments, you said it would be over $12K if you were building this for a client. What do you think the client would expect for that amount of money? Most importantly, it's what satisfies you, not any of us.

You've told us you had time pressures with the last of the build. Hopefully you have some time now to work on it some more, if you so choose. Of course, it's not as much fun redoing things as it is designing and creating something new. Good Luck, and I hope you're having fun in the process!

(apologies for going a bit philosophical here; some of the responses to your question just got me pondering . . .)

To answer your specific question on how it looks now -- much better in the after pic. I see you changed out the white molex and 8-pin connector - that helps a lot. The thing that grabs my eye now are the unsleeved portions of the fan wires.

Thankyou for your comment sharon - I have shown the backside of permafrost before, it was similar to this one - but cleaner because I had less wires overall.

I will deal with the fan wires, i cannot sleeve them as I do not have any MDPC sleeve but I will find a way




one thing I must make clear here guys - these backside pictures are not and never will be on MDPC - I do not plan of having these put up on the site I am fixing the wires to challenge myself. My reasoning is this:

You want to know what the right side of the case looks like? it has a side panel on it - you want to know how many of these wiring fixes I am doing you can see with said side panel on? none

One thing I do not get: the people telling me the build is no good because I showed you the wires on the back panel. I only post these pictures because I have no illusions and I am not a coward in regards to my shortcomings. That has no bearing on the build as a whole because you know what - like I said above you cant see the wires when the case is assembled, none of them at all. Also I must reinforce the above point that the fixes I am doing are for me, not for show, I am only doing it because it is not easy.

[twwen2]

One thing I do not get: the people telling me the build is no good because I showed you the wires on the back panel. I only post these pictures because I have no illusions and I am not a coward in regards to my shortcomings. That has no bearing on the build as a whole because you know what - like I said above you cant see the wires when the case is assembled, none of them at all. Also I must reinforce the above point that the fixes I am doing are for me, not for show, I am only doing it because it is not easy.

Now hang on just a minute. The only reason people are making these comments is because you asked us to. If you hadn't requested us to honestly critique your build, i for one wouldn't have made a single negative comment, because i know i couldn't do anything like it.

As everyone has already said, we reckon it's bloody fantastic and most of us have nowhere near as much talent.