MS to allow for a Web Browser Ballot in their OS

[Salavat23]

Whats next? When you pop in the installation DVD it asks if you want to install Windows 7 or a choice of 5 different Linux distros?

[Ruroni]

Whats next? When you pop in the installation DVD it asks if you want to install Windows 7 or a choice of 5 different Linux distros?

Pretty much my opinion on the matter.

[Calmatory]

what we need is a choice of installing IE6, IE7, IE8 and the MSN browser. and i would be pissed if safari installed stock since it has bonjor with it and i would not want anything from google with the OS.


and i would guess that the next step if this works is to make the sun JRE come with the OS (since .net is an unfair advantage) and just imagine when windows has its user base and the exportability of OSX

Please elaborate.

[saaya]

just wait for that first website they visit that NEEDS IE to run.

right then and there, most people will scrap whatever other browsers they have been using and go back to IE.

seriously, you think this will give other browsers a chance?

youd be surprised how many people decide to go through the pain of calling or emailing those companies and complaining that their browser doesnt work instead of installing IE
not many, but quite some...

and so far the companies could tell them to fck off, now that win7 comes bundled with those browsers it wont be that easy anymore to get rid of those customers, and companies will focus more on making their sites multi browser compliant, which means more companies will enforce a PROPPER web standard that any application can work with instead of the partially chaotic patchwork we have now

[zanzabar]

Please elaborate.

.net is like java for MS (they are both dynamic compilers), so its not fair to sun since u have to go and download it, like how IE is unfair since u have to dload other browsers. java is also vary insecure at least on windows. edit /sarcasm (sorry i thought it went through)

and with safari and chrome being insecure, with IE u have to install activeX plugins for most problems with security to happen with both of those they have had problems with the java engine that they use being extremely "trusting" and chrome can elevate its permissions without user permission. edit (not sarcasm)

[Calmatory]

.net is like java for MS (they are both dynamic compilers), so its not fair to sun since u have to go and download it, like how IE is unfair since u have to dload other browsers. java is also vary insecure at least on windows.

and with safari and chrome being insecure, with IE u have to install activeX plugins for most problems with security to happen with both of those they have had problems with the java engine that they use being extremely "trusting" and chrome can elevate its permissions without user permission.

Java is insecure on Windows? How is that Microsofts fault or anything related to .NET framework?

I really can't see any reasonable and/or rational arguments for that .NET would be unfair. ...and considering that you said ".net and java are both dynamic compilers" just amuses me.

[ex2cib]

It will cause all European sites to make sure they are complient with the major browsers.

To be fair, I haven't come across a website in Europe for a long long time, that doesn't work with Firefox or Opera.

To turn your point around, what happens if they load up IE and come across a website that only works in Chrome?

I remember coding for weages in classes. Whatever worked in chrome, worked the same way in opera and firefox.

IE is the only thing that treats code differently.

IE handles javascript in a weird, weird way.


IE is really lazy about handling code. and thats just one of the many reasons i hate it

[Smartidiot89]

I remember coding for weages in classes. Whatever worked in chrome, worked the same way in opera and firefox.

IE is the only thing that treats code differently.

IE handles javascript in a weird, weird way.


IE is really lazy about handling code. and thats just one of the many reasons i hate it

so as long as you DONT code for IE there won't be a problem?

[>HyperlogiK<]

Bundling IE with Windows is not a monopolistic act per se. And now giving the user a screen to actually choose a browser makes it less so.

If i make a program and want to include a plug-in for free within the package, why would someone stop me to do it?

The real problem is the end user. They will use and keep whatever is tossed on them at first. In this case that is IE, WMP, Outlook Express, and in some cases even Movie Maker and Paint. It is their lack of will (or sheer laziness) to look for better alternatives or for one more suitable for their needs what made IE the most used browser for years (Netscape and Mozilla suite era mainly).

It depends whether they want to legislate fairly or for the greatest benefit to consumers. Personally I think it is reasonable to legally intervene in the activities of monopolistic companies to take account of problems that are actually as much the fault of the consumer. i.e. what is best for everybody matters more than what is fair for microsoft, but it isn't clear where the line should be drawn.

[saaya]

thats what the government is supposed to do, its the peoples representatives, not the company representatives...
well, that was the idea originally, but its becoming more and more the latter

[nemrod]

Bundling IE with Windows is not a monopolistic act per se. And now giving the user a screen to actually choose a browser makes it less so.

If I don't make a mistake, in the 3 first years of IE, IE despite being free has gain only 30% of the market. In a few months, when IE was put in windows has gained 80% of the market. Not abuse of monopolistic position? If you don't remember the history, you can't understand what happen today... And what has happened today, is less drastic than what could have occured when american justice has thinked to put microsoft in small piece...
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/o...05-07time.mspx



For the ballot screen, all details from a microsoft point of view (like what browsers to include...) are here: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...statement.mspx

[Junos]

If I don't make a mistake, in the 3 first years of IE, IE despite being free has gain only 30% of the market. In a few months, when IE was put in windows has gained 80% of the market. Not abuse of monopolistic position? If you don't remember the history, you can't understand what happen today...[/url]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:In...usage-data.svg

[nemrod]

Thanks for this graph Junos.

(Despite it looks quite strange with points not corresponding to datas from the same source)
Original data:
"Date","Percentage"
1996,3.75
1997,17.5
1998,35
1999,62.5
2000,83.75
2001,90
2002,95.25
2003,94.75
2004,92.625
2005,86.903861

Edit in fact original one (which is related to data) is:



Don't know which one is correct.

[JohnZS]

I must admit I am glad that they are going to cater for some sort of browser in Windows 7 E as the very thought of an OS with NO browsing facility (be it via a ballot or Windows Update) was pretty nonsensical.
I still do not see the issue of having IE bundled with the OS anyway (I mean you can uninstal it from programs and features if you wish to remove it)
John

[Eastcoasthandle]

I must admit I am glad that they are going to cater for some sort of browser in Windows 7 E as the very thought of an OS with NO browsing facility (be it via a ballot or Windows Update) was pretty nonsensical.
I still do not see the issue of having IE bundled with the OS anyway (I mean you can uninstal it from programs and features if you wish to remove it)
John

From my understanding IE is integrated into XP, Vista, etc. So you cannot uninstall it. That was the whole problem in a nutshell.

You can read more about what you can do if you don't want IE8 for example, here. This will IMO make Win7 E a sought after OS as it should mean that IE will no longer be integrated in the OS.

[JohnZS]

Thanks for the heads up
I usually use Firefox, but for the odd few sites I revert back to IE so to have 7 WITHOUT a browser seemed rather stupid (IMHO), but the ability to remove the browser from Windows Features is a good idea for those who do not want IE and like to save disk space

[[XC] Lead Head]

From my understanding IE is integrated into XP, Vista, etc. So you cannot uninstall it. That was the whole problem in a nutshell.

You can read more about what you can do if you don't want IE8 for example, here. This will IMO make Win7 E a sought after OS as it should mean that IE will no longer be integrated in the OS.

IE stopped being integrated into Windows with Vista, hence why if you type in a web address in an explorer window on Vista, it no longer magically turns into a web browser - like it did with XP and earlier.

[Aerwidh]

IE stopped being integrated into Windows with Vista, hence why if you type in a web address in an explorer window on Vista, it no longer magically turns into a web browser - like it did with XP and earlier.

You sure about that? I would consider such a change a big plus with Vista/7 in that case, but they may simply have disabled the switching back and forth. Any links?

[Mad1723]

I remember coding for weages in classes. Whatever worked in chrome, worked the same way in opera and firefox.

We had this issue with the website for our gaming community. We have a nice bar that unfolds in different menus, etc. It works perfectly with Opera, FF, GC and Safari, but IE doesn't like it, so the website coder had to make it different for IE

IE is always holding back the evolution of the web, it's the reason why this selection system must be put in! Why not the same for the rest of the world, while we're at it?

[Eastcoasthandle]

IE stopped being integrated into Windows with Vista, hence why if you type in a web address in an explorer window on Vista, it no longer magically turns into a web browser - like it did with XP and earlier.

From my understanding IE is integrated into Vista as well. However, if you have a link suggesting otherwise post it up. I like to know about it.

[[XC] Lead Head]

From my understanding IE is integrated into Vista as well. However, if you have a link suggesting otherwise post it up. I like to know about it.

I've heard it mentioned numerous times before, but here are two links I found:

http://www.esato.com/archive/t.php/t-139523,1.html

http://www.windows-vista-update.com/...xplorer_6.html

[Eastcoasthandle]

I've heard it mentioned numerous times before, but here are two links I found:

http://www.esato.com/archive/t.php/t-139523,1.html

http://www.windows-vista-update.com/...xplorer_6.html

Those links say that Internet Explorer is no longer integrated with Windows Explorer. If that's true that doesn't necessarily say that it's no longer integrated in to Vista.

[[XC] Lead Head]

What else would internet explorer be integrated into? Nothing. Just like how Internet explorer wasn't integrated into 98/ME/2000/XP, it was just Integrated into Explorer - which is quite a big part of the Operating System

[zanzabar]

IE went up in use since netscape was outdated and then IE was the only thing left, then now that we have other browsers that work properly its share is going back down while people discover that there are other browsers and change since most people started with IE as the only browser

[Eastcoasthandle]

What else would internet explorer be integrated into? Nothing. Just like how Internet explorer wasn't integrated into 98/ME/2000/XP, it was just Integrated into Explorer - which is quite a big part of the Operating System

The OS itself. If it's not integrated you would be able to uninstall it not roll back to a previous version when uninstalling the most current version.