Fan Testing Part 2 (Retesting + Noise)

[Martinm210]

for those who want to data mine, Martin provide our site with the data which we hosted here, it includes detailed results per fan with the youtube vids integrated

Thanks John,
That's a much easier format and gives you the individual charts as well.
I copied a link in the OP.

[jmke]

thanks!
I'll see if I can come with a way to group the result charts to make them easier to read, with 30 different line/logo types, it easy to lose track

[Vinas]

If you're looking to buy the Scythe Gentle Typhoon the only place I could find if for sale is:
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=35020&...facture=Scythe

A good alternative is the Scythe Slipstream especially if you undervolt.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835185060

[ShoNuff]

Scythe GT's also found here.

edit: I almost forgot to say "Thank you Martin"...Glad you are back.

[Brodholm]

I forced Tom@chilled to stock the 1450rmp variant and the 1850rpm

http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/prod...oducts_id=1170
http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/prod...oducts_id=1169

[AndreaBZ]

Hello Martin !
Thanks for the spreadsheet of the fans!
...... first results :
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...3&postcount=77

Unfortunately they miss the data on "your" fan Yate Loon D12S M

I have another favor to ask you.
These are the data of your test on the WBs :







You could give me the values : "Water To Air Delta" marked with " ? "
Thanks

[AndreaBZ]

Why two Gentle Typhoon AP 15 ?
(1) and (2) ?

[Brodholm]

Why two Gentle Typhoon AP 15 ?
(1) and (2) ?

I think its first and second round or he tested 2 different fans. But I think he made 2 tests.

[Martinm210]

Why two Gentle Typhoon AP 15 ?
(1) and (2) ?

It was just a testing check on level of repeatability in testing. It was the same fan, but it give you a general idea what sort of testing error I had.

You have PM, the file is too large to attach, but I can email you the data if you send me your addy.

[AndreaBZ]

It was just a testing check on level of repeatability in testing. It was the same fan, but it give you a general idea what sort of testing error I had.

You have PM, the file is too large to attach, but I can email you the data if you send me your addy.

thanks!

************************************************** *************************
Which is the best equation RPM > CFM ?

The classical Y = a X^2 + bX what it intercepts the point of coordinates 0-0 :





Or the equation that is tangent to the X axis in the point of coordinates 0-0?

Y=aX^2

This asks for an artifice to be traced ....



I prefer the second.
This seems to correct better possible errors.... the two curves are more neighbors

[AndreaBZ]

************************************************** *************************
We finally see how much it engraves the error



0,1 degrees to 1200 RPMs!
if we consider the average...
the error goes down to 0,05 degrees!!

[Martinm210]

************************************************** *************************
We finally see how much it engraves the error



0,1 degrees to 1200 RPMs!
if we consider the average...
the error goes down to 0,05 degrees!!

Great work! Very nice!

[Sherif846]

To Martin and the other folks,

Thanks Martin for the excellent work and efforts. I just could not find in the stickies or in this thread anything about the difference between using 120X25 and 120X 38 on radiators. As I am about to build my system, and thanks to your charts I narrowed down my choice, but I don't know which to use, 25mm or 38mm fans?and what effect would each have on the flow? I am probably going for a Feser monsta, to cool 2 blocks ( cpu+gpu) and another seperate loop for nb, sb and other chips.

[Martinm210]

To Martin and the other folks,

Thanks Martin for the excellent work and efforts. I just could not find in the stickies or in this thread anything about the difference between using 120X25 and 120X 38 on radiators. As I am about to build my system, and thanks to your charts I narrowed down my choice, but I don't know which to use, 25mm or 38mm fans?and what effect would each have on the flow? I am probably going for a Feser monsta, to cool 2 blocks ( cpu+gpu) and another seperate loop for nb, sb and other chips.

The only real difference is the sound tone which you can't measure with a noise meter, you have to listen to the videos to pick that up. Generally the 38mm fans have a lower pitch noise, but also the ones with the larger hub size tend to make more ticking type noises at lower RPM levels.

I would strongly suggest that you listen to the videos and compare like CFM levels. You can do this by starting two videos in two different browser windows and use the pause/play and slider youtube tools. Then just adjust the sliders and play areas where they have about the same CFM level and that will at least give you a good CFM vs Sound Quality comparison.

You also need to consider the active area of the fan for bottom line performance. That's how much area the fan moves air. Some of them with larger hub motors will have more dead spots on the radiator than others, so CFM isn't everything, but a place to start. I hope to do a little radiator heat load type testing on a few more fans soon, but I'm still waiting on a pump to do that testing at the moment.

Anyhow, play around with the videos, that's probably the most important tool to use here.

[Alastor2262]

hi martin great testing as usual, thanks a lot
i was wondering if you ever test those more and more commun 140mm fan that attached like 120mm one and if it brings any benefits compare to classic 120mm, thank you
ie :
http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/ac...sl12_main.html

http://www.noctua.at/images/computex...tua_nf_p14.jpg

[S_G]

Wow, great review! Very helpful dude.

Since you mentioned it several times in your post, I'm tempted to download all all your videos and use them to generate a noise frequency chart. Not sure if I have the time though, nor am I sure if it'll be truly helpful.

[Martinm210]

hi martin great testing as usual, thanks a lot
i was wondering if you ever test those more and more commun 140mm fan that attached like 120mm one and if it brings any benefits compare to classic 120mm, thank you
ie :
http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/ac...sl12_main.html

http://www.noctua.at/images/computex...tua_nf_p14.jpg

Glad it helps. I'm not really interested in those types of fans due to their lack of seal for radiator applications. You'd have to build some sort of shroud I think. Anyhow, I bought a couple of other fans I have sitting here waiting, but I can't seem to muster any more energy to test them.

I think I had my filling of fans for a while. As with any testing it gets a bit drab and boring after about the first 5 tests or so.

Maybe later I'll play around again, but for now I'm up to my elbows in grease working on engine rebuilding again.. Horsepower & Speed are something I can never seem to grow tired of..

Wow, great review! Very helpful dude.

Since you mentioned it several times in your post, I'm tempted to download all all your videos and use them to generate a noise frequency chart. Not sure if I have the time though, nor am I sure if it'll be truly helpful.

That would be cool. Maybe just try it on a couple of fans to start out with. I'd be interested in the frequency response too.

[ImportantAwareness89]

To Martin and the other folks,

Thanks Martin for the excellent work and efforts. I just could not find in the stickies or in this thread anything about the difference between using 120X25 and 120X 38 on radiators. As I am about to build my system, and thanks to your charts I narrowed down my choice, but I don't know which to use, 25mm or 38mm fans?and what effect would each have on the flow? I am probably going for a Feser monsta, to cool 2 blocks ( cpu+gpu) and another seperate loop for nb, sb and other chips.

If I'm not mistaken, you need a 38mm on a radiator. In general a 25 vs 38 should be about the same in terms of CFM vs dB in open air, but when you have obstructions like in a radiator, Martin showed that the 38mm fans really shine. Vapor did a test in open air and you can see that the 25mm fans do quite well there. Sure he didn't use as many 38mm fans so it's a little hard to tell, but looking at Martin's graph you can see that the 38mm fans stand out to the upper left in those CFM vs dB graphs.

[liguhy]

If I'm not mistaken, you need a 38mm on a radiator. ...but when you have obstructions like in a radiator, Martin showed that the 38mm fans really shine...38mm fans stand out to the upper left in those CFM vs dB graphs.

38mm fans's extra depth allow more fan blade design that increase static pressure. It's not like 25mm can't do it, but 38mm inherently have more capability to do so. When a fan is blowing through an obstruction, static pressure keeps the air going more. In terms of radiators, the higher fin density, the more critical a fan's static pressure is.

[Gardenofwar]

Hello I am fairly newb to this, but wow, nice work Martinm210, and hey I don't live too far from you; I live in Welches, OR; at the base of Mt. Hood. Anyhow, yikes, I just read this whole review and my head is spinning. I am inclined to the GT, however I would like to know what you and others think of the AP-14 as it was not tested? I can only assume it would be that much quieter. Nice videos btw - those really helped. The GT had a more comfortable noise than the other fans I was interested in. I would guess the AP-14 is similar in sound but just a bit slower? However would it still perform decent enough for use in a rad set up? I plan on running two Feser X-Changer Triple 360 mm Extreme Performance Radiator - 15mm Spacing. Another concern of mine is that the GTs have a huge disc, and I worry about that creating a dead spot in the middle, as well as what it might do for static pressure. Sure the flow can be tested and graphed, but does air flow alone indicate actual performance for cooling a rad? I know you used a rad in your setup, I guess I am just concerned about it cooling equally without any dead spots. Any thoughts?

[millertime359]

The AP-14 is the same as the AP-15 only 1450 RPM vs 1850 RPM. it moves a little less air. You are looking at fan controllers anyways, so I would just get the 1850s. They are not that loud as is. Those sound files put the mic right next to the fan, so that is as loud as they will ever be.

[Hondacity]

The AP-14 is the same as the AP-15 only 1450 RPM vs 1850 RPM. it moves a little less air. You are looking at fan controllers anyways, so I would just get the 1850s. They are not that loud as is. Those sound files put the mic right next to the fan, so that is as loud as they will ever be.

if you look at the numbers..the ap14 eats less than half the current...i don't think it can maintain that airflow..against the ap15...include the pressure too.

[millertime359]

if you look at the numbers..the ap14 eats less than half the current...i don't think it can maintain that airflow..against the ap15...include the pressure too.

Yea, it doesn't move a lot of air. i got 2 of those 1450s in my other case. They still move some air, but you can tell the difference. That is why I would suggest the 1850s. If they are too loud, then get a fan controller.

[mozis]

Check "Radiator Air Flow vs RPM" chart. At 1450 RPM the AP-15 moves about 25CFM through a RS120, according to it.

So 25CFM AP-14 vs 34CFM AP-15. That would mean AP-15 moves 36% more air in that test.

Correct me if im wrong (tired).

Oh and it appears there is a 2150RPM version:
http://catalog.nidec-servo.com/digit...pdf/D1225C.pdf

[Martinm210]

Hello I am fairly newb to this, but wow, nice work Martinm210, and hey I don't live too far from you; I live in Welches, OR; at the base of Mt. Hood. Anyhow, yikes, I just read this whole review and my head is spinning. I am inclined to the GT, however I would like to know what you and others think of the AP-14 as it was not tested? I can only assume it would be that much quieter. Nice videos btw - those really helped. The GT had a more comfortable noise than the other fans I was interested in. I would guess the AP-14 is similar in sound but just a bit slower? However would it still perform decent enough for use in a rad set up? I plan on running two Feser X-Changer Triple 360 mm Extreme Performance Radiator - 15mm Spacing. Another concern of mine is that the GTs have a huge disc, and I worry about that creating a dead spot in the middle, as well as what it might do for static pressure. Sure the flow can be tested and graphed, but does air flow alone indicate actual performance for cooling a rad? I know you used a rad in your setup, I guess I am just concerned about it cooling equally without any dead spots. Any thoughts?

Yep, I live in po dunk southern Oregon. You're up there near Danger Den in Astoria, you should go give those good folks a visit some time.

Good questions:

I never tried an AP-14, only the 15 so I couldn't tell you. I do know that with some of the fans that I have tested in the same family like the S-Flex, that there was enough difference between models that I wouldn't generalize too much. Each and every fan seems to have more of an individual character, so you almost need to try both side by side to ensure.

You are correct about the dead spot issue, it's another variable that influences what CFM level leads to bottom line radiator performance. The only way to eliminate that variable would be to test each and every fan on a radiator. The issue is time in testing, it's prohibitive to do the same on a radiator. The CFM flow bench style testing can be done very quickly. I could measure CFM levels almost instantly and because of that captured a data point from 4V to 12V at every volt. So that was 9 data points, and could be done in about 10 minutes.

30 fans translates to about 300minutes or around 5 solid hours of testing. Remounting and the rest accounted for more, so this testing of the data points really probably took me about 10 hours worth of testing.

Testing on a radiator is instead of taking 10 minutes, takes a good 60 minutes depending on the radiator delta and water volume. My radiator test rig has a large reservoir, so a single data point can take 90 minutes of testing time to ensure complete stabilization of the system and quality data.

So...Rad based testing would have taken 90minutes X 10 data points x 30 fans or 450 hours But wait, you'r still not done, because more than likely because of the fan power curves, those results may be slightly different over different types of radiators. In reality, you probably would need to run those same tests over each radiator brand....you could turn this into a lifetime effort that you'd never accomplish because there would continually be new fans.

Anyhow, that's why I used CFM based testing. It's no where near as complete in evaluating the bottom line performance as rad based testing of fans (which does also include dead spot effects), but it's a place to start and sort of a quick look effort which is more effort than I even wanted to do when I started in this mess. You're always more than welcome to tackle the effort yourself though..

I gave all of my fans to skinnee so I could rid myself of this nightmare...it felt quite good sending off that big box..lol!

I would always recommend that you go out and buy a couple of fans for yourself that you're trying to decide between and tinker with them. Use your own test to make your decision....that's the best thing to do..