Selling ES processor is a risky business.

[devsk]

I think people here misunderstood what Francois(Dr.Who?) was trying to say.
He was giving a polite warning to the guys here out of courtesy.
Take it in that context only please.
Technically and legally Intel does retain ownership of all ES chips they send out to manufacturers of boards,etc.
Don't flame him for the post, thank him for letting you know before you get yourself into any problems.


Tray and ES are two totally different things.
Tray are just as it sounds, retail chips in a plastic tray sold to OEM's in bulk.Nothing illegal about buying those.

You did not answer the other part of my question. Will Intel RMA it if it failed in next 3 years? If it was OEM, it would be covered by the same warranty.

[eva2000]

You did not answer the other part of my question. Will Intel RMA it if it failed in next 3 years? If it was OEM, it would be covered by the same warranty.

AFAIK, intel oem warranty is dictated by the retailer selling it as opposed to manufacturer which is usually between 30 - 90 day warranty versus intel retail cpu 3yrs with manufacturer

[youngpro]

as recent as three months ago there were at least two BIG OEM sellers in australia selling ES cpus to end users... this is the type of activity that needs to be targeted, overclockers KNOW they are buying an ES from someone else... an end user might not even know they have recieved an ES or that owning an ES is a problem..

[Praz]

This start by excluding ES from the competitions, too often, I see top overclockers bragging about their ES they got under covers ... This is not a sign of an Healthy Overclocker, but more a sign of Mafia ... ;-)

Francois

Prohibiting an ES chip from competition could be made part of the NDA agreement. This would not change the current state of affairs but going forward any new CPU released would be covered. Intel would then be able to legally demand that any site or organization remove said scores from public view.

From a corporate point of view this seems to be the best course of action. The general tone of this thread indicates that users will continue to use these chips in competition. Also most seem willing to make future purchases even though doing so is illegal.

[Movieman]

You did not answer the other part of my question. Will Intel RMA it if it failed in next 3 years? If it was OEM, it would be covered by the same warranty.

Some are 30-90 day, some a year, depends on who you buy from.

Francois

Prohibiting an ES chip from competition could be made part of the NDA agreement. This would not change the current state of affairs but going forward any new CPU released would be covered. Intel would then be able to legally demand that any site or organization remove said scores from public view.

From a corporate point of view this seems to be the best course of action. The general tone of this thread indicates that users will continue to use these chips in competition. Also most seem willing to make future purchases even though doing so is illegal.

Well said.
I'm as guilty of wanting the best I can find, the most current technology,etc as anyone else.
That is normal and in my gut I don't think Intel gives a hoot about one guy getting one chip. It's people making a living from selling these in huge quantities.
You see some guy with a pic of a box of 100+ current cpu's that you know he got out of China for $10.00 each and selling for $500.00 each and that burns my ass.

[systemviper]

IF your (Intel) guys from INSIDE, didn't SELL these ES CPUs by 100+, then all the other users couldn't sell them as well....
FIRSTLY "clean" your INSIDE selling of the ES pieces and THEN make these statements...
Because you (Intel) CAN'T sell these ES and then ASK not to be sold again in the open market.........
You're doing it FIRST.....
All the other words are totaly bulls.......
"CLEAN" YOUR "inside" guys and everything will be cleaned.....

I have to agree, the problem starts with Intel FIRST.

ALSO, i see veiled threats are allowed here now? hmmmm.
or it it only from big brother

[Movieman]

I have to agree, the problem starts with Intel FIRST.

ALSO, i see veiled threats are allowed here now? hmmmm.
or it it only from big brother

Intel sends chips out to motherboard manufacturers,testers,etc and they HAVE to do so otherwise how do the parts these people make become validated?
As to threats, there weren't any, veiled or otherwise, so lets not go there ok?
The guy gave a polite warning and thats all there was to it.

[devsk]

Another question: Is there a way to tell if the chip is an ES chip? Does it say that in CPU name/properties?

[Movieman]

Another question: Is there a way to tell if the chip is an ES chip? Does it say that in CPU name/properties?

On the IHS it says "Intel Confidential"..at least it does in the pics I've seen..

[gillbot]

In CPUID, it will say (ES) after the Specification String.
See here:
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/Bli..._validated.png

On the IHS it says "Intel Confidential"..at least it does in the pics I've seen..

[NaeKuh]

or the cpu will say something like this:



taken from anandtech. :P

[loonym]

Intel sends chips out to motherboard manufacturers,testers,etc and they HAVE to do so otherwise how do the parts these people make become validated?
As to threats, there weren't any, veiled or otherwise, so lets not go there ok?
The guy gave a polite warning and thats all there was to it.

Perhaps not so innocent as you attempt to make it seem? If the chips are distributed to specific partners and testers wouldn't it make more sense to issue a statement to them? Where else has this been posted? I couldn't find any other recent warning anywhere.

[nge769]

[/QUOTE]You see some guy with a pic of a box of 100+ current cpu's that you know he got out of China for $10.00 each and selling for $500.00 each and that burns my ass.[/QUOTE]

Wow, thats a huge profit margin , I gotta find that china dude..

[gillbot]

Perhaps not so innocent as you attempt to make it seem? If the chips are distributed to specific partners and testers wouldn't it make more sense to issue a statement to them? Where else has this been posted? I couldn't find any other recent warning anywhere.

and if it is that big of a deal, why doesn't intel demand all of them back from those who get them?

[Movieman]

Perhaps not so innocent as you attempt to make it seem? If the chips are distributed to specific partners and testers wouldn't it make more sense to issue a statement to them? Where else has this been posted? I couldn't find any other recent warning anywhere.

Hello my friend.
No, you don't see public statements on this all the time.
Like lots of things in life companies don't get vocal on issues until they perceive a problem.
What factors tell them that it's time to go public only they know. I can't read their minds.
As I said in an earlier post I think the issue is not one or even 100 guys getting a ES cpu from some contact in some company but more the sale of large volumes of ES chips.
Es chips have always been around to those with the right contacts and always will.
That's not the issue, selling in big quanties is and is perceived by Intel as cutting into their bottom line.
Like all else in life money is what causes this question to surface here.
Intel is trying to protect their bottom line and I can't blame them for doing so.

[Bail_w]

My concerns is are there any specific reason why DrWho? started the thread here? Did he found someone selling ES chips in huge quanitites here? As far as i know, we don't even allow selling ES chips in the FS/FT section. So why???

[cdawall]

I guess this is the best place to post this question as people who are knowledgeable on the topic will be reading this thread (a bit OT sorry): I have an AA (pre-release) AMD 955be that I won in a contest - when the time comes for me to sell it and go to a newer model can I sell it on the forums or is it too under ES restriction?

your ok to sell it but it goes without a warranty i had one of those as well

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

your ok to sell it but it goes without a warranty i had one of those as well

thanks I was hoping the question didnt get lost in the fray cuz the 965 is gonna be here soon (if were lucky)

[loonym]

My concerns is are there any specific reason why DrWho? started the thread here? Did he found someone selling ES chips in huge quanitites here? As far as i know, we don't even allow selling ES chips in the FS/FT section. So why???

Exactly! There may be the occasional posted cpuz screen showing an ES (and one could assume these are chips obtained through appropriate channels) but it seems very far from the norm and certainly no more common than on any other enthusiast forum, and far less than on a couple that come to mind. And it's correct that the buying/selling of ES is strictly forbidden and policed here. Those factors make the original post seem a bit over the top and rather odd.

[Avan]

Pretty sure this was posted here, because there is a member of this forum selling an ES chip on a few other sites. The ES chip for sale isn't even retail yet, so I can see why Francois is annoyed.

[loonym]

Pretty sure this was posted here, because there is a member of this forum selling an ES chip on a few other sites. The ES chip for sale isn't even retail yet, so I can see why Francois is annoyed.

Ok, speculation. But if that's indeed the case why not contact that individual directly, or mods, or as he said, simply buy whatever the item happens to be?

Sorry Doc, but your original post looks like smoke and flexing to me. I am the great and powerful Oz. Now everyone put on your scared face and go ooooooooh and aaaaahhhhhhh.

[Movieman]

Ok, speculation. But if that's indeed the case why not contact that individual directly, or mods, or as he said, simply buy whatever the item happens to be?

Sorry Doc, but your original post looks like smoke and flexing to me. I am the great and powerful Oz. Now everyone put on your scared face and go ooooooooh and aaaaahhhhhhh.

I disagree and part of my disagreement is based on meeting Francois.
i honestly think he was sending a polite message and not trying to browbeat anyone.

Now tell me, did you get those ES's I mailed you yesterday?
joke folks, just a joke!

[saaya]

For those who are selling their ES CPUs on OCBay, be aware that we will purchase them, and trace back to who ever originally signed up for them.

This is something you don t want to do , I am asking nicely and friendly that this does not happen ... Selling an ES can really get people into trouble, it goes under the laws of "Industrial Espionage " and few other nasty stuff you don t want to be cut under.

Please guys! be smart!

Francois

if you really want to stop ES chips from beeing sold why dont you stop intel employees and intel partners from selling them?
cracking down on the people in the enthusiast community who trade with them wont solve the problem, they will just be replaced... and it will upset the enthusiast community... if you want to solve the problem, solve it at its source...

check who sends how many ES chips where and verify whether they are actually still in place or what happened to them.
i heard rumors of intel employees handing over large amounts of ES chips as a favour to intel partners, knowing that they will use them in systems or sell them and that this is an extra income for them... not sure how true this is, but im sure this rumor is based on some truth at least...

i heard both scenarios:

A: Intel employee hands over ES chips to a friend from an intel partner company as a thank you for cooperation or sign of good will or to return a previous favour, whatever... the friend from the intel partner company then sells them or uses them in systems (dell repeatedly did this for example, and there were hundreds to thousands of cpus involved)
to intel those chips pretty much cost 50$ each, but to everybody else they are worth hundreds of dollars... intel and other chip companies are pretty much printing their own money. and francois, i know your a nice guy and all intel people you know, well probably most, are very decent people... but you cant deny that there are black sheeps at intel just as at any company, and when you are under pressure to win a deal and have chips available that are almost free for you and worth 10X their weight in gold to your customers... thats one way of bribing them, a smart way, cause it doesnt really leave notable traces...

B: intel employee isnt happy with his salary, but he has access to ES chips... people are willing to pay a lot of money for them, and as long as they arent sold to the competition directly the moral barrier isnt a real problem for most people in such a situation, so off the chips go, and up the employees account balance goes

[loonym]

Now tell me, did you get those ES's I mailed you yesterday?

Safe and sound, running 7ghz on air!

[Movieman]

Safe and sound, running 7ghz on air!

Is that all? I got 7250mhz with an aluminum HS and no fan..Your slipping I think!
I did have to up the cpu voltage to .85v for that speed..