What I'm dying to know is whether or not it will work with these: http://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_...oducts_id=2293
What I'm dying to know is whether or not it will work with these: http://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_...oducts_id=2293
Brodholm, please read my entire original post before making these requests/statements...I took alot of time and went very in depth...your questions have already been answered.Originally Posted by Brodholm
Pumps and Fan speed are controlled via the thermal probes at user defined settings. Once configured the card is OS independant. Flow based failsafes currently do not work outside of the OS. Thermal failsafes do. If this is not good enough for you go buy the aquero..it sounds like this is the one you really want anyways so be happy with the LCD screen and 40 Watt limitation.
My two pumps take up 36W alone, and even one pump exceeds channel limits.... Which makes the aquero useless to me and alot of other people. You can have all the nice software and OS independant features you want...but if your controller can't run the pump, well what was the point of the controller in the first place?
If aquero makes a stronger controller, it will be the best one and ill buy one in a heartbeat.
Last edited by dsumanik; 05-28-2009 at 09:10 AM.
It depends on your case. On mine, the drive bay cover has edges that extend inwards (with indents to lock the cover) about 1.2". If my drive bay cover didn't have this issue, then it could effectively be moved closer to the right or front of the case by 1.2".
You also have the option to install in an empty PCI slot, but in my case the flow meter cable wouldn't reach if I did this.
the Borg Cube:
Case - Lian Li PC-343B
Mobo - EVGA X58 Classified (759)
CPU - i7 920 (D0 stepping), watercooled w/Enzotech Luna Rev.A block
RAM - Corsair Dominator GT 2000 (8-8-8-24) w/fan
GPU - EVGA GTX295 quad-SLI, water cooled w/Koolance NX295 blocks
PSU - Corsair HX1000
O/S - Windows 7 RC build 7127
I tested with a bitspower thermal plug and temperatures were not accurate, about 30C too high.
I would suggest using only Koolance thermal plugs to ensure compatibility.
FYI - Version 2.1.2 of the TMS-200 software has just been released:
http://www.koolance.com/support/manuals.html
the Borg Cube:
Case - Lian Li PC-343B
Mobo - EVGA X58 Classified (759)
CPU - i7 920 (D0 stepping), watercooled w/Enzotech Luna Rev.A block
RAM - Corsair Dominator GT 2000 (8-8-8-24) w/fan
GPU - EVGA GTX295 quad-SLI, water cooled w/Koolance NX295 blocks
PSU - Corsair HX1000
O/S - Windows 7 RC build 7127
Alright, I will delve into it later tonight and post an update with my findings.
i wish a changelog was listed.
This information is posted in the forums:
"New software for TMS has been posted to http://www.koolance.com/support/manuals.html . Additional updates should become available more regularly.
v2.1.2 Additions:
•120dpi resolution support.
•User-definable pump and fan speed levels. These can be accessed via the "Adjust" option beneath any fan or pump's drop-down menu.
•A new debugging log feature. If there are issues in the software that cause an error or crash, information should be posted to the debug log file in the TMS root directory. Debug logs can be disabled under "Settings".
•Color code indicators have been added to all devices on the main screen (temperature, fans, pump, flow meters, etc.) to make the display graph more legible.
•The option to disable the TMS tray icon hover menu was added. To access, right click and select "Disable Mouseover Menu".
•Additional fixes for stability.
We are still working on other issues some customers are experiencing with their TMS-200 boards. This includes hearing an alarm or receiving a shutdown signal during the boot-up process (continuously or at random), some fans not being controlled properly, or COM connection problems."
Why are you so "aggressive"? I'm not criticizing you or anything if you think thatI'm just making some points about these controllers.
And I have READ your entire post but you cant remember everything. And what I meant with "Can you set pump-speeds after water temp?" was if I can set the pump to go at like 9 volts when the temp is, lets say 20 to 30degres and when its 31 take it to 12v etc. Because from what I can see you can only set it to a straight curve from temperature.
The only thing I saw about that in your first post was this:
-User-defined pump "auto" settings: set the min/max temperature values and speed for one 12V DC pump
And the requests you are talking about? what are they? The only thing I can come to think of is that I asked you to ask koolance about that features. But that was stuff you was going to ask anyway. I was more reminding you
And about OS-independent. I think this is just a misunderstanding. Or how we intercept?! (English?) the word independent. Because to me, independent is that you can plug in the unit and configure it and then unplug it. And then it should be able to do all the stuff it was inteded to do without being DEPENDENT of a software. But if I have understood correctly so does the TMS need to be connected and have the software running to be able to change fan-speeds according to the values that are set. And also that it doesn't shutdown without the program loaded when flow values are exceeded.
And I'm sorry if you think I'm making to much requests and statements that have already been answer. Ill try to not do that
The koolance sensors are using 49.12 kOhm. I know people uses the bitspower ones on aquaeros and aquacomputers sensors have 10 kOhm NTCs (including the one with the hole in) So its as you say. Go with the koolance ones for the tms. Or one that have the same ohm.
Last edited by Brodholm; 05-28-2009 at 10:32 AM.
Nice, No info about shutdown out of OS though :\
Maybe dean@koolance can comment on this? Will it even be possible to have that on the TMS?
Excellent and detailed review.
The Bitspower temperature probe not working is a show stopper right there. Many of us have numerous probes like this (10k) and it is ashame these are not working. These work with bigNg, Aquaero and motherboard temperature sensors.
Do you have another temp probe to test to confirm?
I don't think that's fair to Brodholm. You had me almost buying this yesterday when you confirmed that the flow-failsafe worked when it didn't. I was going to post but then others beat me to it. Brodholm had this discussion (and made several informative threads on all 3) about the TMS-200 a few weeks and was about to pull the trigger when this came up. Dean was asked the question but never responded to it. And if its a programming issue that they will fix cool, but thats a strong disadvantage to the security this is supposed to give. To me there are only two reason to buy TMS-200 (or one of these types of units) especially when it doesn't support lcds, thats the failsafe and auto-fan adjustment. I guess you could buy a d5 with the tach sensor and hook that up to the motherboards cpu fan but that kinda defeats the point.
I'm not following you here. You have to buy the additional expansion board to the TMS-200 to run two pumps. And you can't hook a d5 or Laing pump to Aquaero at all. You buy the Poweradjust for each pump and it runs those pumps separately from the Aquaero. They use the same software but they aren't connected physically. The Aquastream on the other hand can be connected to the Aquaero but the Aquastream doesn't get its power from the Aquaero either. So I believe you can run as many Aquastreams as you need, use just hook each up to a 4pin power connector from the PSU. It's also somewhat independent so you can change the pumping speed and monitor the conditions without the Aquaero, but for the fail-safe I think you need the Aquaero. The 40 W limitation is really only for the fans unless people are powering the Laing pumps off the Aquaero. And if you haven't bought your fans yet, there are some good 1 watt fans out there.
To me its really boiling down to what pumps you're going to use. With the laing pumps I would lean towards the BigNG more than the TMS-200 until they get the failsafe resolved (and the lcd if you want one). But once that and the other issues you linked are resolved (if they do resolve them!) the TMS-200 seems like a good bet. Also, I don't understand why people have a big issue with BigNG software updates, I mean the current software works. And if your going with an Aquastream then the Aquaero seems the way to go. On Tuesday I was set to buy the BigNG (which I think looks very cool). On Wednesday I was set to buy the TMS-200 and today I'm set to buy the Aquaero. I'll see what happens tomorrow.
Last edited by kimoyo; 05-28-2009 at 01:01 PM.
Why are you so "aggressive"? I'm not criticizing you or anything if you think that
.
hey there, sorry Brodholm i didnt mean to come off as agressive..no hostility intended at all..after rereading my post I can see how it could be interepreted like that..i was just in a rush when i wrote it heh.
kimoyo:
I was unaware you could hook up more than one poweradjust, this completely changes my mind about aquero now lol. Also, with regards to the flow shutdown...yes i made an error in my testing and missed this condition...there are so many things to test on this controller it was an honest mistake...i really thought I had gotten everything, but this slipped through...and it was a big thing. Again my apologies. it has taken me hours to get this review done and tons of rewrites. I have since removed my conclusion to leave the reader to decide what is best for thier purposes...my opinions dont matter, only the readers do 8)
I have updated the original post with results of the new software update..please enjoy my findings good and bad....
Last edited by dsumanik; 05-28-2009 at 06:07 PM.
Dsumanik -
Firstly, I really appreciated your review. It did really help a lot! The only reason why this flow fail-safe is an issue is because Brodholm was geeked about buying a TMS-200, brought up the issue and was kinda misled a bit. Someone who actually brought the TMS-200 then posted it didn't work. At least that was my take on it, but anyone can go back and read the threads he posted on the controllers. And I know it seemed like he could have been attacking you a bit especially considering the forum atmosphere but if you read he's previous threads you will really see he's just asking a lot of questions.
As far as the aquaero goes, its either they don't care to update the english speaking part of their site or there's a little designed ambiguity there. I actually read threads on their forum and the manuals but the manuals are outdated also.
Just to be clear, a laing pump can not be controlled by temperature in the aquacomputer system, which is what Brodholm was asking you about the TMS-200. So as temp goes up, its not possible to increase a d5's rpms thru the aquaero, unless they changed something in the last few years. You can take a look here. The failsafes still work, the aquaero can tell if the d5 stopped pumping in order shutdown the computer and can still monitor temperatures. The poweradjust can still vary the voltage to change the rpms of the pump, its just that the aquaero (which reads the temperatures) can't communicate with the poweradjust to tell it to vary the voltage of the laing pump. From what I can gather on their forums, they just don't want to integrate the aquaero with the poweradjust because the laing pumps aren't their pumps. They feel the aquastream meets their "standards" and thats what they will support.
I do like the idea that the pumps power isn't going directly thru the controller, but I'm still trying to decide what pump to get. A d5 would be twice a strong as an eheim, but the eheims are extremely reliable (I use them in my other hobby) and quiet. I'm still not sure how quiet a d5 is, I hear that some people can hear a certain tone and I'm pretty sure I will be able to hear it also if that's true.
Last edited by kimoyo; 05-28-2009 at 07:54 PM. Reason: needed clarification.
The AC poweradjust USB cannot be purchased anywhere it seems. Everyone is out of stock and shoggy said he did not know when or if they would be back in stock.
I have two of them and one does not vary the voltage to the pump when demanded. I run two DDCs in series and need two of these. However, for two weeks I have been looking for another poweradjust with no luck.
I would buy anywhere in the world that ships to USA. They are nice pieces of equipment.
HMM if he means setting specific voltages for specific temps..you cannot do that yet. You can only set the min and max temp and the controller adjusts pump speed automatically in between these values. I have also requested koolance allow it to be controlled via flowrate..so that it can adjust voltage to maintain a specific flowrate for testing purposes. i.e. keep flow at 2GPM and switch out waterblock to see which one is more efficient at a given flow.
yes I red Brodholms other posts on the aquacomputer stuff.... very interesting... it seems like all these controllers just miss the the home run by an inch heh. After speaking with Dean today, i feel pretty confident the shortcomings of this controller are going to be addressed, even if it requires a new board revision. Also i downloaded the aquasuite and tried it in demo mode, there is alot of good stuff in it, but also alot of extra stuff i don't knwo if I would ever use.
Last edited by dsumanik; 05-28-2009 at 09:17 PM.
hey there, sorry Brodholm i didnt mean to come off as agressive..no hostility intended at all..after rereading my post I can see how it could be interepreted like that..i was just in a rush when i wrote it heh.
No problem, I just wanted to be sure that I haven't done anything to tick someone off. I rather stay friends than hate each other if you know what i mean
kimoyo:
I was unaware you could hook up more than one poweradjust, this completely changes my mind about aquero now lol. Also, with regards to the flow shutdown...yes i made an error in my testing and missed this condition...there are so many things to test on this controller it was an honest mistake...i really thought I had gotten everything, but this slipped through...and it was a big thing. Again my apologies. it has taken me hours to get this review done and tons of rewrites. I have since removed my conclusion to leave the reader to decide what is best for thier purposes...my opinions dont matter, only the readers do 8)
Everyone makes mistakes and I just wanted to be sure that the flow-shutdown worked and you rechecked and it didn't work. No harm done. And its REALLY appreciated that people do tests like these. I learned a thing or two about the TMS that i didn't know
I have updated the original post with results of the new software update..please enjoy my findings good and bad....Dsumanik -
Firstly, I really appreciated your review. It did really help a lot! The only reason why this flow fail-safe is an issue is because Brodholm was geeked about buying a TMS-200, brought up the issue and was kinda misled a bit. Someone who actually brought the TMS-200 then posted it didn't work. At least that was my take on it.
Yeah, that was a bad day... I thought this is IT, the one that have almost everything! But that was not really the case. But i have to give Koolance some credit. They have handled this quite well in my opinion. They even offer a refund if you aren't satisfied with the unit.
"During the time required to test these different hardware scenarios, unfortunately, we realize some customers are still unable to operate their TMS boards properly. For anyone currently experiencing unresolvable or unsatisfactory issues with their TMS-200 boards, we would like to offer the option to return the product for a refund (please submit an RMA request to do so). We sincerely apologize for any issues encountered with this product."
But if you read he's previous threads you will really see he's just asking a lot of questions.
Haha, This is true. I do ask a lot of questions (I will try to ask less). Most of the questions I'm asking I already "know" (have read about) and just want confirmation from some more people so that I didn't miss read the text or the source was bad. This happens quite a lot.
As far as the aquaero goes, its either they don't care to update the english speaking part of their site or there's a little designed ambiguity there. I actually read threads on their forum and the manuals but the manuals are outdated also.
I have also noticed this. The old manual said that the AE only can handle 5w per channel. It wasn't until I made that aquaero thread that shoggy corrected me. Its kinda sad because they make really good products. And they could make much better if they just widen their perspective a bit.
Just to be clear, a laing pump can not be controlled by temperature in the aquacomputer system, which is what Brodholm was asking you about the TMS-200. So as temp goes up, its not possible to increase a d5's rpms thru the aquaero, unless they changed something in the last few years. You can take a look here.
I don't think so. According to shoggy you can only set the speed manually via the aquasuite. Because the poweradjust don't have a buss. I.e you cant set the speeds like in the TMS. But the TMS still lacks in the controlling since you only can take control it "that" at auto and not set thresholds values for speed and temp.
The failsafes still work, the aquaero can tell if the d5 stopped pumping in order shutdown the computer and can still monitor temperatures. The poweradjust can still vary the voltage to change the rpms of the pump, its just that the aquaero (which reads the temperatures) can't communicate with the poweradjust to tell it to vary the voltage of the laing pump. From what I can gather on their forums, they just don't want to integrate the aquaero with the poweradjust because the laing pumps aren't their pumps. They feel the aquastream meets their "standards" and thats what they will support.
I think that it is ashame that they don't make their controller more "universal". But I can understand that they want their customers to get their pump so they can make more profit. But I think, and know that many ppl don't get the aquaero since it cant control laning pumps. And they would make more money just selling a aquaero rather then don't sell one at all...
But as I said before, There is ppl that have made there own "fan-amp" for the aquaero so you can control it just like a fan. And since the aquaero already is failsafe with hardware shutdown from flow/rpm/temperature a amplifier is perfect. (normal fanamps dont work well, the aquaero cant change the voltage on them. dono why). The unit Its self a really simple thing. And it can handle 18W i think. But the circuit is not optimal for pumps. Its more for stronger fans. But there is one guy that is going to try and redesign it for pumps. He said he was going to work at it the first week in June. So thats soon.
I do like the idea that the pumps power isn't going directly thru the controller, but I'm still trying to decide what pump to get. A d5 would be twice a strong as an eheim, but the eheims are extremely reliable (I use them in my other hobby) and quiet. I'm still not sure how quiet a d5 is, I hear that some people can hear a certain tone and I'm pretty sure I will be able to hear it also if that's true.I think that aqua tuning have some coming in. [Clicky]
This is the LT variant though. But that should not be a problem since you already have one that isn't working. (take faceplat from that unit in that case).
The shortcoming of new poweradjusts may indicat that they have something new coming out and want to clear their stocks on it. Maybe a Aquaero enough powerful control pumps. That would be awesome. Does anyone know if aquacomputers have any plans on a new controller
Did he think that the failsafe issues would be fixed on THIS board? Or did that require a newer version of the board? If it can be fixed on this board Its very likely that ill go with tms. And exactly as you say, they all miss something. The only one that actually gives it all is the mcubed. But the software is a nightmare... And display is not that easy.
OMG, only two questions in all that text, gotta be some kind of a record :P
Edit: haha, need to add a question :P. What is the range of a ddc3.2 pump? I mean the range of the rpm. Like 2000rpm to 4500rpm. Because if you reed the site its says 7volt to 12volt. How long and high can you go dsumanik with the tms?
Last edited by Brodholm; 05-29-2009 at 03:55 AM.
I have been watching this exact link for the last week and it ALWAYS says 48 hours..lol
My DDC 2 18W tops out at 4440 RPMs according to the TMS, I have been running it on auto settings the last few days and it has been cycling with ease, with the new software update it shifts gears very smooth I can infact only hear it now If I specifically touch it to something that makes noise like the case panels etc.
In the new Software Update section of my Review I checked the pump header voltages with a multimeter, it is very close to what is being reported in the software which is max of 12.73. So it looks like you can get a little "voltage boost" over 12V with the tms on the high end. The main board has 0.1V more power output compared to the Expansion board according to my multimeter.
I don't know how a DDC 3.2 compare to my DDC2, ..but the Koolance pump is in fact a 3.25 I believe, so this should handle 3.2 no problem.
As far as Koolance fixing this board these were Dean's words to me:
"Yeah we know about the problems, we are offering refunds to people and we don't know the exact source of the problems yet, there seems to be some com port errors that may be unresolvable. It might be a firmware fix needed."
I then asked how we could update firmware and he said
" I don't know all the details yet, but we may have to send a new board to people with the fixes."
So to me that says they are gonna try and patch it with software first...if that fails, it'll be a hardware fix and they will do a board swap.
He sent me another email this morning saying all my suggestions and fixes are forwarded to the software DEV's, and he read this thread..and liked my review heh.
Pretty awesome customer support so far I have to say, as I find out more i will retest again and change my review to the new results.
Brodholm, if you are itching to buy something righ tnow just keep this in mind with the TMS
It will keep your Cooling setup silent, and adjust voltages on pumps and fans as needed even in its current state..the software is super easy to use and functional...the only problem is that if a pump fails, cavitates, or stalls the TMS will not shut the computer down until your CPU probe heats up enough.
It is not perfect, but "good enough" for me now.
When and if the fixes are applied, it will do everything I need a thermal controller to do.
Last edited by dsumanik; 05-29-2009 at 09:40 AM.
So what is the difference between the various Ohm ratings? Is there any advantages / disadvantages?
The Bitspower sensor seemed to be working when I tested it (but with a static temperature delta) I wonder if the software can be adjusted to accept readings from the 10k OHM sensor plugs.
I only have koolance plugs and Bitspower plugs... koolance ones worked fine and bitspower were ~30C too high.
You can find the specs for the Koolance temp probe on it's page under "manual".
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=702
Circles SucQ!
If your annoyed by sigs telling you to put things in your sig, then put this in your sig
Bribery won't work on me...just say NO to AT!!!
Sounds good. I have had a somewhat different view of the support though. Sent 3 mails directly to the site and have gotten 0 replies. I have sent some pm's to dean here at xs and he has replied to some of them. No one after he was going to check the shutdown though. I guess its because they have problems. But I still like a status report
Its not that I need to buy one NOW. But that I have to plan for a TMS or a Aquaero. If I'm going tms I will get that unit inside the chassis but the aquaero has a display so. And I'm building my own chassis so there is so much planing involved. So I have to make up my mind.
How low can you go on your DDC2.X in rpm values? Before it stops. Because 7-12v (DDC3.2 voltage range) is a quite small spectrum compared to fans.
Just call them, they ALWAYS answer the phoneSounds good. I have had a somewhat different view of the support though. Sent 3 mails directly to the site and have gotten 0 replies. I have sent some pm's to dean here at xs and he has replied to some of them. No one after he was going to check the shutdown though. I guess its because they have problems. But I still like a status report
Its not that I need to buy one NOW. But that I have to plan for a TMS or a Aquaero. If I'm going tms I will get that unit inside the chassis but the aquaero has a display so. And I'm building my own chassis so there is so much planing involved. So I have to make up my mind.
How low can you go on your DDC2.X in rpm values? Before it stops. Because 7-12v (DDC3.2 voltage range) is a quite small spectrum compared to fans.
i7 920@4.0 Ghz | Asus Rampage III Extreme | 12GB Corsair Dominator 15000
ATI Radeon 5870 x2 | Samsung LN55B650 55" 1080p + Samsung LT4665N 46" 1080p LCD TVs
Koolance CPU-350/Vid-AR587 on Koolance ERM-2K3U
Zalman HD160XT HTPC | Intel X25-M 160GB SSD + 2x VelociRaptors | Thermaltake Toughpower 1200w PSU
Yeah I know. But I live in Sweden and calling overseas isn't exactly cheap! I think that mails are sometimes superior as you can provide data at the same time. But I agree that calling is the fastest way and probably the best.Just call them, they ALWAYS answer the phone
Also! I re read your review dsumanik. And now when you can set the levels to specific data you can set the pump almost as i like. Because you can set lets say lvl 1,2,3 at the same voltage and giving a totally different curve! Thx again.
Last edited by Brodholm; 05-30-2009 at 11:23 AM.
Good point, I wasn't thinking about the international side of things.
Also, in case it hasn't already been noted, the new 2.1 version of the software is running very stable on my machine, thanks Koolance!
i7 920@4.0 Ghz | Asus Rampage III Extreme | 12GB Corsair Dominator 15000
ATI Radeon 5870 x2 | Samsung LN55B650 55" 1080p + Samsung LT4665N 46" 1080p LCD TVs
Koolance CPU-350/Vid-AR587 on Koolance ERM-2K3U
Zalman HD160XT HTPC | Intel X25-M 160GB SSD + 2x VelociRaptors | Thermaltake Toughpower 1200w PSU
I know this thread is done but I thought there was a very nice repository of info and the big brains in the know might see my question and respond in kind. So what do you think linux compatability?
The reason I ask is I was thinking of using one of those samsung micro boards with a lcd controller to run (these boards run in a linux and windows ce environment) the tms-200 software and put it on a 7 inch touch screen on the front of my water box (Danger Den). This way I could have a true independent monitoring system.
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