HD 4770 Previews/Reviews

[BrowncoatGR]

Those I don't have so I don't know if they would fit. If you can find a heatsink with a 4.5cm mounting hole offset then let me know. For the time being I have drilled some extra holes in a HR-03 GT bracket I had lying around.

Zalman VF1000 and Scythe Mushashi.

[SKYMTL]

You mean the marketing guys are trying to deceive people?!?? Now that's a first!

The point I am trying to make is that it is up to reviewers to bridge the gap between marketing mumbo jumbo and reality.

So you agree with me when I say the HD4830 is, right now, a successfull product in its price range? Of course, a RV770, even a salvaged one, should be more expensive to make than the G94b, but that's one of the main reasons for the RV740 appearance anyways

Right now; definately. Especially considering the fact that Nvidia has been caught with their pants down with overly expensive 9800 GT and 9600 GT cards. Back when the HD 4830 was retailing for the same price as the 9800 GT, they had a reason to keep the price at ~$120 but for some reason there has been no reactionary price cut by Nvidia.

My retailer contacts continue to tell me that the 9800 GT sells SIGNIFICANTLY more units than the HD 4830...regardless of the near $30 difference between the two cards. This tells me that Nvidia knew their card would continue to outsell the HD 4830 at a higher price and didn't bother with a price cut in reaction to ATI cutting prices.

We all hear about the high-end price cuts but it is the mid-range that is really suffering price-wise these days.

[SKYMTL]

Zalman VF1000 and Scythe Mushashi.

Thermalright HR-03 Rev A as well. Looks like it is time to hunt one of these down.

[BrowncoatGR]

My retailer contacts continue to tell me that the 9800 GT sells SIGNIFICANTLY more units than the HD 4830...regardless of the near $30 difference between the two cards. This tells me that Nvidia knew their card would continue to outsell the HD 4830 at a higher price and didn't bother with a price cut in reaction to ATI cutting prices.

We all hear about the high-end price cuts but it is the mid-range that is really suffering price-wise these days.

That doesnt surprise me. You wouldnt believe by how many ppl i've been told that they only buy Nvidia cards and that ATi cards have problems with drivers.

[v_rr]

My retailer contacts continue to tell me that the 9800 GT sells SIGNIFICANTLY more units than the HD 4830...regardless of the near $30 difference between the two cards. This tells me that Nvidia knew their card would continue to outsell the HD 4830 at a higher price and didn't bother with a price cut in reaction to ATI cutting prices.

Peanuts.
Your retailer != world.

[SKYMTL]

Peanuts.
Your retailer != world.

Not only my retailer but people at retail level I am in contact with worldwide. That goes for the EU, USA, Asia and Canada. Even the board partners who support both Nvidia and ATI back this up off the record.

The simple matter is that Nvidia seems to have better market penetration through a very aggressive sales / marketing team. I am not debating which card is "better" even though for its price, the HD 4830 wins hands down. It is just a problem with people's perception of a certain product that will have them holding back purchasing a less expensive yet just as capable alternative. We see this with everything from running shoes to GPUs to the whole Mac versus PC war. The fact that this same thing is happening between ATI and Nvidia should surprise no one.

[hurleybird]

It probably has something to do with the huge splash the 8800/9800GT made when it was first introduced (beating the old GTS cards at a much lower price) vs. the 4830 being more of an afterthought designed to improve yields. If the 4830 was the first RV770 product to come out I bet it would have made a much bigger splash and get more mindshare. Still a pity that a (slightly debatable) better performing card that sells for less money is getting the shaft from the consumer. Same thing happened through most of the P4 generation too.

[v_rr]

Not only my retailer but people at retail level I am in contact with worldwide. That goes for the EU, USA, Asia and Canada. Even the board partners who support both Nvidia and ATI back this up off the record.

That´s simply impossible. Your contact is 0.0001% of the world. Don't make up numbers that anyone know about.
I can come here and say the same but on the oposite. The diference is that I don't say because I know that those numbers are impossible to know except if you count them on TSMC and UMC fabs.

[kemo]

That´s simply impossible. Your contact is 0.0001% of the world. Don't make up numbers that anyone know about.

Prove it .

[Luka_Aveiro]

Prove it .

Never mind v_rr, he lives in his own world.

[hurleybird]

@ Rasamaha: would you mind telling us which program you used to bypass ATI's CCC overclocking limitations?

Probably used the same method the linked to review uses.

"Catalyst Control Center is the only utility to adjust clocks for now. The core/memory clock limit is 830/850MHz, which doesn’t meet our demand for overclocking. If you want more, just open the Rivatuner.cfg, find “RV770 = 9440h-9443h,944Ch”, and add the ID “94B3h” after."

[v_rr]

Prove it .

So I'm the one that has to prove it?

Someone come here and Say:
- I have 10000000000000001 contacts and in every world "X" happen and "Y" don't happen.

I Say:
- That's simple impossible. The only way to know if in this case "X" or "Y" happen is if you have direct numbers from TSMC or UMC that are the source. If you don't know that you can't predict numbers because my local store say this or that.
I'm not even going to talk about the 100000000 of local stores around the world, and not even going to talk about thousands of OEM makers around the world and I'm not even going to talk about the dozen of different add-in-board and retail channels.

Anyone here grown-up yesterday, and this is takes you to the coffee talking and Fud talking.
IDC, Isupply and other spend thousands of $$$$ to count market share numbers around the world. And even them can´t tell you numbers with good accuracy. They follow some standard functions to calculate numbers.

Take console numbers as example (microsoft, nintendo, sony) that looks easy to count market share numbers, but in reality those company's spread fud around their sales. Again if you have access to manufactures numbers you could easily say who is selling more.
In the end he is only spreading fud in a way that fud does. How many times you read on Fudzilla site (X is selling realy well) and you open the link and you have a bunch of nothing....

[BrowncoatGR]

snip

It's simply really every gamer knows nvidia, but only computer enthusiasts know ATi for the most part. Also over here there's this myth floating around that ATi has bad drivers, which in my experience is not the case. I had convinced a friend to buy a 4850, despite the sales person telling him that ATi had bad drivers. Well he tried to play GTA IV where he had texture problems. Next thing you know he gives the card back and pays extra to get a OCed 9800GT

[v_rr]

It's simply really every gamer knows nvidia, but only computer enthusiasts know ATi for the most part. Also over here there's this myth floating around that ATi has bad drivers, which in my experience is not the case. I had convinced a friend to buy a 4850, despite the sales person telling him that ATi had bad drivers. Well he tried to play GTA IV where he had texture problems. Next thing you know he gives the card back and pays extra to get a OCed 9800GT

Not going to discuss "Coffey chat", like: I have a friend that know a friend that bought one FX 5200 instead of one HD 4870 because the number was bigger or bought 8600GT 1GB instead of GTX260 896Mb because it have more memory (both cases are real and the only thing they show is how ignorant or stupid humans can be). Not going to discuss also: I have a friend that know a friend that in his local store sell more "X" then "Y".

You should listen to yourself. It's ridiculous read those kind of posts here on XS. (same opinion about those posts in favor of Nvidia, intel, amd, microsoft, sony, watever)

[BrowncoatGR]

Not going to discuss "Coffey chat", like: I have a friend that know a friend that bought one FX 5200 instead of one HD 4870 because the number was bigger or bought 8600GT 1GB instead of GTX260 896Mb because it have more memory (both cases are real and the only thing they show is how ignorant or stupid humans can be). Not going to discuss also: I have a friend that know a friend that in his local store sell more "X" then "Y".

You should listen to yourself. It's ridiculous read those kind of posts here on XS. (same opinion about those posts in favor of Nvidia, intel, amd, microsoft, sony, watever)

Seriously that was just an example, get your head out of your ass. Besides if i favor any of those companies that would probably be AMD. It does no good to hide from facts though.

[grimREEFER]

im assuming these are ppl who had to buy a card cause their current card died, not because they were just upgrading.
when your upgrading, you have time to do your homework and stuff.
its really not too difficult with google.

[tajoh111]

I find it easy to believe the 8800 sells better. Nvidia has way better marketing and I can imagine alot of older 8800 gt owner recommending new computer owners to go 8800gt or 9800gt. TWIMTBP also probably has an effect too since it is in game advertising.

[ToTTenTranz]

It's simply really every gamer knows nvidia, but only computer enthusiasts know ATi for the most part. Also over here there's this myth floating around that ATi has bad drivers, which in my experience is not the case. I had convinced a friend to buy a 4850, despite the sales person telling him that ATi had bad drivers. Well he tried to play GTA IV where he had texture problems. Next thing you know he gives the card back and pays extra to get a OCed 9800GT

Sales guy - 1
Your friend - 0

[hurleybird]

Yeah, 9800/8800GT selling better isn't too surprising, but I bet the 4770 will overtake it.

[LightSpeed]

Yeah, also the fact that the HD4830 wasnt really advertised as much and was mostly overlooked

on the other hand, 4850 and 4870's hve sold admirably well

4770 is a very important GPU for AMD. whats the die size of this GPU?

[hurleybird]

Something like 136mm2

[initialised]

Still waiting for our 4770's, will do some CF & OC testing when they turn up.

One thing I've noticed recently is that some 9800GTs are showing up with no PCI-E power connector (slated GTS240 spec?) so for power efficiency and as an upgrade path it is a good product and can probably remain competitive. But the systems that cards in this range suit are more often CF than SLi compatible which might give 4770 the edge it needs.

[oohms]

I can't wait for these cards
Already figured out a voltmod (the controller looks VERY moddable )
I'm just hoping this won't be a paper launch, and that they sell the reference design with the reference sink here. Shame about the mounting holes though.

That´s simply impossible. Your contact is 0.0001% of the world. Don't make up numbers that anyone know about.
I can come here and say the same but on the oposite. The diference is that I don't say because I know that those numbers are impossible to know except if you count them on TSMC and UMC fabs.

You can't come and say that he is wrong, without showing anything to the contrary. Down here its pretty much the same story, stores sell more nvidia cards because nvidia is well known. I would be honestly surprised if ANYONE claims that they work in a regular PC store and they sell more ATI than nvidia.

[Andi64]

So I'm the one that has to prove it?

Someone come here and Say:
- I have 10000000000000001 contacts and in every world "X" happen and "Y" don't happen.

I Say:
- That's simple impossible. The only way to know if in this case "X" or "Y" happen is if you have direct numbers from TSMC or UMC that are the source. If you don't know that you can't predict numbers because my local store say this or that.

You don't have to go to the source and ask "Hey, TSMC, how many G92B/RV770 did you sell this month?"

Talking about retail channel, it is correct to take random samples of retailers ask them if "X" sells more units than "Y" and conclude wich one is selling more units. That would be correct in a statistics point of view, the more samples you get the more accurate the result will be.

It is not impossible what SKYMTL said, here in Argentina we have the same tendency.

[initialised]

Im thinking of downgrading my X2 and picking up two of the babies instead.

3 might be competitive up to 1920x1200, I'll give it a shot as and when they show up. I'll be sticking with my mentally OC'd x2 thank you very much Might add a 4870 1GB once they are sub £150.