My Dual Harper - Asus Z7S WS living review *56K warning*

[MrBean]

@ STEvil: Yep, I did that too in the old days

With this board you don't have to power down though - if it fails to POST, just keep the "del" key pressed, and after few seconds it will beep.

Works for me though, so let's see if we can revive a few of those dead boards out there.....

Here's to hope.

[angelshonnny]

No, not really. Just need a tiny piece of insulation tape to cover 2 of the outer pins, like this:



Yellow pins must be covered, be sure to count them right and watch CPU orientation. Green pins are for VID modding, that's a lot harder to do though.

Got the new board today
Tried the mod, but when I booted the Bios showed that the cpus were running at 2GHz. So I deactivated C1E and Speedstep, F10 and then BIOS showed 2,5GHz I'm 100% sure I got pins G and H. I used a thin tape, so maybe the pins on the board went through the tape. I didn't want to remove everything again, so I chanced it and just upped the clockgen to 400. Rendering some very craving models right now. Only been running for about ½ hour now, no problems so far. I can live with it like it is at the moment. Cpus running at+_ 80%. Temps are at 54c and 52c and NB 38c(PC PROBE) Funny thing is, on the other board there was almost always about 10c difference between cpu 0 and 1, even after I refitted the hot one.
No news on a new BIOS yet, or is everybody giving up on this board and on Asus? Wouldn't blame them though...

[MrBean]

Heya Guys,
For those that are overclocking this board, and using CPU multiplier - when you select a different multiplier, save/exit and then re-enter the bios, does it show the original multiplier on one cpu and the selected on the other?

I have this with my board, where it would indicate 2 different multis under cpu properties, when POSTing, it indicates correctly, but not in the bios.

My problem is selecting 400fsb, the board is very instable.....I drop my 2.66gig/333fsb/8x multi, and select 2.80gig/400fsb/6x multi, and the system crashes randomly.

It's not the cpu's, if they indeed do multi to both, otherwise the one might be running 2.80, the other 3.20.

Upping Vcore doesn't help, I'm an accomplished overclocker, so done all the basics. Memory is Kingston rated for 5-5-5-18(spd)/400fsb, and I see the bios sets them to 5-5-5-15, but that still couldn't be it.

Wish this bunch at Asus would get of their collective unmentionables and provide the proper support this motherboard deserves - it has so much potential.

What a shame.

Anyway, feedback would be appreciated, and soz to Jcool for going slightly off-topic.

[jcool]

Heya Guys,
For those that are overclocking this board, and using CPU multiplier - when you select a different multiplier, save/exit and then re-enter the bios, does it show the original multiplier on one cpu and the selected on the other?

I have this with my board, where it would indicate 2 different multis under cpu properties, when POSTing, it indicates correctly, but not in the bios.

My problem is selecting 400fsb, the board is very instable.....I drop my 2.66gig/333fsb/8x multi, and select 2.80gig/400fsb/6x multi, and the system crashes randomly.

It's not the cpu's, if they indeed do multi to both, otherwise the one might be running 2.80, the other 3.20.

Upping Vcore doesn't help, I'm an accomplished overclocker, so done all the basics. Memory is Kingston rated for 5-5-5-18(spd)/400fsb, and I see the bios sets them to 5-5-5-15, but that still couldn't be it.

Wish this bunch at Asus would get of their collective unmentionables and provide the proper support this motherboard deserves - it has so much potential.

What a shame.

Anyway, feedback would be appreciated, and soz to Jcool for going slightly off-topic.

I tested with the 6x multiplier on my old board with the E5420's, was working fine. That was with bios 0201 and C0 step CPUs though, seems like a lot of problems were introduced only by 0401
What stepping are your CPU? C0 or E0? Either way they shouldn't have any trouble running FSB400. It can't be the mem either, if it's rated 800Mhz.
So only the mobo remains... either it's too hot (did you try adding a fan to blow on the NB?) or you got a really bad one which just needs more juice. Try 1,3 or 1,35V MCH (not 1,4V as it won't post, was always bugged and probably will always be bugged -.-)

You are using 1GB or 2GB sticks right? I have no idea about OCing with 4GB modules, some people said it's harder.

[MrBean]

Heya jcool,
Thanx for your feedback.

CPUs are E5430 C0's, so they would be fine.

Memory is 800fsb, 4x2gig config. I have very good watercooling on the CPUs, and the HD4870X2, temps are low. I did have the NB voltages up to 1.30, will try 1.35, my feeling is it must be motherboard related, as stated, even with multi down to 7, board would still crash at 400fsb, with CPUs at 2.80gig.

It's definately not the processors, as I can do 375x8=3.00gig all day long, as a matter of fact, I have been running at this speed non-stop the past few weeks, hundreds of benchmarks, crunching, et al, no problems at all.

So, I will dump more voltage at the MCH, and see what the board says.

I have a decent fan cooling down the heatpipe and surrounds, everything is well-cooled, so probably a crappy board, but it would be RMA time, as this is supposed to do 400fsb out of the box.

I might flog this and just get a Skulltrail or SuperMicro board rather. A number of years ago, at the hight of the overclocking wars, and competing for the global top5 in the Hall of fame, I walked away from DFI due to boards killing 6800 nVidia cards - I will turn my back on Asus too, and advocate against them, as they really don't come to the party.

They can't advertise about rock-solid stability et al and sell us this bovine feaces

Will keep you guys posted though.

[Madman666]

Heya Guys,
For those that are overclocking this board, and using CPU multiplier - when you select a different multiplier, save/exit and then re-enter the bios, does it show the original multiplier on one cpu and the selected on the other?

I have this with my board, where it would indicate 2 different multis under cpu properties, when POSTing, it indicates correctly, but not in the bios.

My problem is selecting 400fsb, the board is very instable.....I drop my 2.66gig/333fsb/8x multi, and select 2.80gig/400fsb/6x multi, and the system crashes randomly.

It's not the cpu's, if they indeed do multi to both, otherwise the one might be running 2.80, the other 3.20.

Upping Vcore doesn't help, I'm an accomplished overclocker, so done all the basics. Memory is Kingston rated for 5-5-5-18(spd)/400fsb, and I see the bios sets them to 5-5-5-15, but that still couldn't be it.

Wish this bunch at Asus would get of their collective unmentionables and provide the proper support this motherboard deserves - it has so much potential.

What a shame.

Anyway, feedback would be appreciated, and soz to Jcool for going slightly off-topic.

I also had Kingston memory 800Mhz, only got to 395 FSB.
Bought some mem from jcool, now I can easily run at 430

[MrBean]

Mmm...that's interesting. Is it a timing issue in the Bios then, with agressive timings applied to the memory?

I just tested with MCH voltage to 1.35volt, same issue - will boot into Win Vista 64, and random bluescreens, which seems to indicate memory for sure. Now if only Asus can provide a Bios with some meory timings open, and then Vdimm adjustment - that would make life easy.

This is crap.

[ptelles]

Nice overclock on those L5410's Madman666.

[jcool]

Mmm...that's interesting. Is it a timing issue in the Bios then, with agressive timings applied to the memory?

I just tested with MCH voltage to 1.35volt, same issue - will boot into Win Vista 64, and random bluescreens, which seems to indicate memory for sure. Now if only Asus can provide a Bios with some meory timings open, and then Vdimm adjustment - that would make life easy.

This is crap.

Vdimm adjustment is already there Maybe try 1,86-1,9V on the mems?
Could be the mems then, I guess.. even if it doesn't make sense.
Only other possibility would be that one or both CPUs can't handle the FSB, which was the case with my C0 E5420's above FSB 430. No amount of Vcore will get them stable on a higher FSB, I would need a VTT setting for that. So there is a possibility that your CPUs are at their FSB limit, however slim that chance may seem. 99% it's some incompatibility/timing issue with your mems. Maybe memset or another windows tool could help rule that out?
Like, set relaxed subtimings, then raise FSB in Windows using SetFSB and see what happens.

[Madman666]

Nice overclock on those L5410's Madman666.

Thnx

@ jcool : No it doesn't make any sense but I can only say changing the memory did the trick for me.
Only thing I have done is set the Vcore to 1.225V, everything else is in default.

[MrBean]

@ jcool: As i have mentioned, the cpu's will run at 375x8=3.0gig all day long.

Dropping the multi to 7x at 400fsb gives me only 2.80gig, so theoretically speaking, the cpu's will be ok here. Bluescreens is memory-related, so I will measure vdimm and see if the board is undervolting on the mem.

I will adjust dual-channel voltage setting in the bios and see if I can get past the issue.

Just as an added note, even if I drop the multi to 6x at 400fsb, which equates to 2.4gig on the cpu's, it still bluescreens. So definately memory.

Let me perform a few tests, and I will report back.

[jcool]

@ jcool: As i have mentioned, the cpu's will run at 375x8=3.0gig all day long.

Dropping the multi to 7x at 400fsb gives me only 2.80gig, so theoretically speaking, the cpu's will be ok here. Bluescreens is memory-related, so I will measure vdimm and see if the board is undervolting on the mem.

I will adjust dual-channel voltage setting in the bios and see if I can get past the issue.

Just as an added note, even if I drop the multi to 6x at 400fsb, which equates to 2.4gig on the cpu's, it still bluescreens. So definately memory.

Let me perform a few tests, and I will report back.

No, you didn't get what I was saying. There is a slight possibility that your CPUs simply cannot handle a FSB frequency of 400Mhz, simple as that. Or at least not without VTT/GTL adjustments, both of which are (currently) impossible on the Z7S with non-QX CPUs.

Imagine you are overclocking your Desktop S775 rig. You go to FSB 400 with your Quadcore, but no matter how much you raise MCH, Vdimm or Vcore, you can't get prime blend to run stable. What you do is increase the VTT from a stock 1,1V (for 45nm S775 CPUs) to, lets say, 1,18V and voila, FSB 400 stable. Most CPUs require VTT adjustments only later on (starting at FSB 420-440), but there are some that won't run FSB 400 on stock VTT. I have had at 3 Q9550 in the last 2 months alone that wouldn't do it without adjusting VTT.

Now the Z7S slightly undervolts VTT, if you check in bios you'll see the VTT listed as 1,07-1,08V. What happens for me is that the E5420's can't run over FSB 430 stable, regardless of the multiplier and Vcore used. Even though I know the board, memory etc can go a lot higher singe I am running FSB 450 24/7 with the X5450's

I am not sure what limits my OC with the X5450's, I know for a fact it's neither the memory nor CPU clock (because lowering the multiplier doesn't help getting above FSB 450 primestable), so it's either the VTT again or a simple motherboard limitation.

Anyway, what I am saying is that you just might be so unlucky as to get a pair of CPUs that simply cannot handle FSB400 and upwards with stock VTT.
Again, this is unlikely but possible, and WILL happen with C0 step CPUs between 420 and 440Mhz FSB anyway. You will never hit FSB 450 primestable unless you got E0 step CPUs.

[MrBean]

Soz I misread you there.

I will get one of the SM boards, and get rid of this POS. Either that, or tackle a VTT mod similar to the one I did couple years ago for Memory on theAbit MAX3 - this time for CPU termination though.

Just a pity Asus castrated this Bios as much as they did. What a shame.

Ah well, let that be a lesson to me then - you want a server, you buy a server board.

[Movieman]

Soz I misread you there.

I will get one of the SM boards, and get rid of this POS. Either that, or tackle a VTT mod similar to the one I did couple years ago for Memory on theAbit MAX3 - this time for CPU termination though.

Just a pity Asus castrated this Bios as much as they did. What a shame.

Ah well, let that be a lesson to me then - you want a server, you buy a server board.

What I'd love to do is get one of the X7DWA-N's into DDTUNG's hands.
remember the Asus PC-DL's?
Guess who it was who worked out those mods..

[jcool]

Soz I misread you there.

I will get one of the SM boards, and get rid of this POS. Either that, or tackle a VTT mod similar to the one I did couple years ago for Memory on theAbit MAX3 - this time for CPU termination though.

Just a pity Asus castrated this Bios as much as they did. What a shame.

Ah well, let that be a lesson to me then - you want a server, you buy a server board.

Sadly, doing a VTT mod on the Z7S isn't that easy. From what I gather, its special dual digital PWM solution makes the whole circuitery immensely complex, so it's not just a matter of adding a VR to a given spot. Someone said something about having to solder to at least 8 different spots to make it work, but it might well be more or entirely impossible.

[MrBean]

Sadly, doing a VTT mod on the Z7S isn't that easy. From what I gather, its special dual digital PWM solution makes the whole circuitery immensely complex, so it's not just a matter of adding a VR to a given spot. Someone said something about having to solder to at least 8 different spots to make it work, but it might well be more or entirely impossible.

Well within my capabilities, just don't know if I want to go through this with such an unstable BIOS. You enter hardware monitor and change settings, it resets the BIOS defaults, etc.....if it had a better BIOS, we could have worked something out, and I could test those mods to the digital pwm a previous poster mentioned a few pages back.

At least the saving from/loading to BIOS profile works, so it's easily rectified - just an inconvenience.

I have anyway ordered a new SM X7DWA-N (Thanx Movieman!), and I might have a play with the Z7S afterwards - let me get it out of the chassis and start studying the v-regulation, and see what our options are - I guess by then the new server-boards will be flooding the market, and everyone will hop onto Gainsville (yeah, I know it's Gainstown, pun intended)

As Movieman has said, might be nice to get the SM off to ddtung though, he did very good work in the past on some specialist v-mods.

Thanx for your input though, appreciated

[cbienlein]

im running C0 E5430s, 4x4Gb 667 RAM, 4870x2, all at 400x8. Rock solid. I finally got the watercooling up on the video card so im going to start pushing the FSB more.

[jcool]

Nice, but FSB 400 will probably be very close to your FSB limit with that ram config... unless you got really lucky

[Movieman]

Nice, but FSB 400 will probably be very close to your FSB limit with that ram config... unless you got really lucky

But he will have a stable system!

[jcool]

And I don't?

[Movieman]

And I don't?

Yes, you do, BUT and a big BUT your bout the only one that does.
I'm just not going to get myself into a position of having to RMA a board 6 times hoping for a good one or that Asus finally figures out what is wrong.
my gut feeling is that researching this issue costs time and money and they aren't going to do it.
Fixing the bios to accept E0 step harpers took them way too long.
Think on this: I got those X5470's when? Last summer and the SM board supported them 6 months before they hit the market.

[jcool]

Well I have an additional 2 of these monsters out there as customer setups, they damn well better hold up... until now, they do.

By the way, some pics from the more recent one (October 08):









Knowing their failure quota, I wouldn't buy another one tho. And I sure as hell ain't gonna touch mine. Until Gainstown arrives, this will either stay the single strongest producing rig we have, or it'll go down again... and I'd rather not have the latter

[D_A]

You don't mind if I stick those pix to the back of the bathroom door do you?

[Movieman]

You don't mind if I stick those pix to the back of the bathroom door do you?

I already did.
one thing we agree on is that jcool builds a nice machine!

[jcool]

You don't mind if I stick those pix to the back of the bathroom door do you?

No, not at all

HW specs were:

- Dual X5450 @ 3,8Ghz (stock Vcore.. manual setting caused problems ), cooled by EK Supremes
- Dual HD4870X2, cooled by Watercool full cover blocks
- 4x2GB 800Mhz FBdimms, cooled by Rambocks
- 3x WD Velociraptor 300 in Raid 0, 1x WD Caviar Black 1TB mounted in a Watercool Silentstar Quadbox
- Dual PSU, Dual Pumps, 3 Dualrads equipped with Noctua P12 fans, controlled and monitored by the Aquaero in the front

Idle noise level below 20 dBA at 1 meter distance, 21-25 dBA full load depending on ambient