X48 Rampage Formula Preview.

[mikeyakame]

Brama,

Unfortunately deep down in my heart I know you are right We all do, but we are still hoping there is a chance they won't let us down even though the board has been around nearly a year now. It's still one of their top tier FSB boards so I hope they still care enough to make a difference for all of us. My friend at Asus Tech support in Sydney can't help me either, they have no real contact with Bios engineers to do anything.

[Zucker2k]

Brama,

Unfortunately deep down in my heart I know you are right We all do, but we are still hoping there is a chance they won't let us down even though the board has been around nearly a year now. It's still one of their top tier FSB boards so I hope they still care enough to make a difference for all of us. My friend at Asus Tech support in Sydney can't help me either, they have no real contact with Bios engineers to do anything.

Wasn't there a name: Vivian, floating around here a while ago? We need some top tier e-mail addresses.

[ElAguila]

I have a question about the mosfet cooling. Right now I am running with the oc I have listed in my sig. I had replaced the thermal paste on the nb with as5. I am getting ready to pull the mobo and replace the paste with MX-2. Should I remove the thermal pad/tape that is on the mosfets and replace it with arctic ceramique or mx-2 or will it be okay as is?

[Alien Grey]

In my experience you need a high level contact in Asus. Bombing with emails the Tech Support is wasted time.
I had a very serious issue with a SAS controller not working at all after BIOS 401.
I was able to get a BIOS that corrected the issue only involving a friend of a friend that works at Asus Italy.

I am not too confident that they will even put a working minute on RF BIOS, unless they have to fix a real big error.

I hope I am wrong....

You might be wrong. If you didn't receive the answer you where hoping for you can give them the lowest score. I think that triggers something over at ASUS.
I did it a few times after every disappointing answer and suddenly they have the time to phone me and send my questions to the ASUS Global Tech Support.

[mikeyakame]

Gah. I've now got an official reason to complain to Asus to fix something on the RF.

S3 Suspend to Ram is f****d. it inversed my Dram Fine Clock Delay values. By inverse I mean original value XOR'd with F. So original was 3h.

Fh ^ 3h = Ch = 13T

Had to full power cycle it to clear the values back to original 3T. Windows wouldn't even shutdown, I'm lucky it didn't corrupt the registry or anything at all.

This is something that's completely intolerable. It's upto bios code to correctly save PCI registers for suspend so this is Asus' problem not Windows. I'll be writing an angry tech support email when I wake up tomorrow explaining how they need to fix this and they are lucky it didn't cost me any data. I'll make a complaint about lack of NB/CPU clock skews while I am doing it.

Do any of you guys have problems with Dram Clock Fine Delay values after suspend resume? I could tell I did straight away because the LCD poster backlight stays on permanently which means to me memory clock skews are way way way too tight.

Edit:

No sooner did I say everything was ok, did I find a problem.
Running SFC /scannow to find and fix whatever the hell Asus' broken suspend corrupted. Guess I won't be using it again, funny thing is I never use it either and figured I'd try it to see if it actually works.

Edit2:

Definitely Asus fault. This is from Windows Event Viewer.

The platform firmware has corrupted memory across the previous system power transition. Please check for updated firmware for your system.

Edit3:

Meh, Thank god for Windows 7 having automatic system restore points being saved. Fixed corrupted NTDLL.dll library that was broken by screwed up S3 suspend.
I think I might know what the culprit is too. I have a hunch it's tREF, Self Refresh Interval. At 3120T it's dangerously low and It wouldn't surprise me if this corrupted memory. Damn Asus and not even bothering to include code to self track the value according to DRAM frequency.

I don't really want to break my system again trying to fix it but I'll give it a shot, and see if it helps any by forcefully setting it through MCHBAR PCI register and trying to S3 suspend again and see if it corrupts or not.

Bah It's not even saving the PCI registers correctly, what a joke. Let me explain bold underlined registers too.

Before suspend.
FED14260 0B373D91 130E0078 CFD19500 0302BF33 <- CHA
FED14660 0B373D91 130E0078 CFD19500 0302BF33 <- CHB

Highlighted is tREF = D195h - C000h. = 1195h = 4501T
Which i set myself through writing the MCHBAR register for CHA/CHB for 577MHz (DDR2-1154)

After suspend.
FED14260 0B373D91 130E0078 CFCC3000 0302BF33 <- CHA
FED14660 0B373D91 130E0078 CFCC3000 0302BF33 <- CHB

Highlighted is tREF = CC30h - C000h. = C30h = 3120T
Not correctly saved during suspend, reverted back to Intel default value for 400MHz (DDR2-800).

Before Suspend
FED14510 00008523 00000CF7 00000425 00000012 <-CHA
FED14910 00008323 0000020B 0000084E 00000052 <-CHB

After Suspend
FED14510 0000853D 00000CF7 00000425 00000023 <- CHA
FED14910 0000833D 0000020B 0000084E 00000043 <- CHB


These ones are the kickers though and the huge problem. Compare 23h, 12h for CHA and 23h, 52h for CHB to below after suspend values of 3Dh, 23h for CHA. 3Dh, 43h for CHB.
Now you wonder what these are. Let me explain and so you know these correlate with Dimm 1-4 Fine clock delay in Everest.

The Last values of 23h, 43h CHA. 12h, 52h CHB are some other kind of skew most likely DQS. Data Strobe Skew. They change too before and after.

23h != 3Dh.
Before
2h = CHA2 Dimm Clock Fine Delay = 2T
3h = CHA1 Dimm Clock Fine Delay = 3T

After
3h = CHA2 Dimm Clock Fine Delay = 3T
Dh = CHA1 Dimm Clock Fine Delay = 14T

Same goes for CHB

23h != 3Dh.

Before
2h = CHB2 Dimm Clock Fine Delay = 2T
3h = CHB1 Dimm Clock Fine Delay = 3T

After
3h = CHB2 Dimm Clock Fine Delay = 3T
Dh = CHB1 Dimm Clock Fine Delay = 14T

Now 1T = ~50ps according to how Asus bios for DRAM clock skew sets these up.
So my point is on CHA1/CHB1 the DRAM Clock Skew values are being delayed an extra 550PS or a bit less and this is corrupt your OS in 2 minutes or less territory and should never EVER happen, EVER. A2/B2 by 50ps but they aren't occupied.

Edit5: UPDATE

Heres a couple more but I don't know exactly what they are as they are unknowns but I know they are static values.

Before Suspend
FED145D0 80000008 11330002 00F1CCCC 38004CD0 <- CHA
FED149D0 80000008 11330002 00F1CCCC 38004CD0 <- CHB

After Suspend
FED145D0 80000008 11330002 00F1CCCC 38000C90 <- CHA
FED149D0 80000008 11330002 00F1CCCC 38000C90 <- CHB

All I know is they are something to do with MCH internal timings or skews, but no doubt they are probably important. CHA and CHB settings are always 400h offset apart They seem to exist between 200h-5FFh for CHA, 600h - 9FFh for CHB. Outside this are other values unknown.

I made this neat so I don't have to explain it twice in an email.

[Alien Grey]

Nice an official reason to complain to ASUS.

Don't be to hard on them.

[Brama]

Nice an official reason to complain to ASUS.

Don't be to hard on them.

Go ahead Mickey!

This is a thing they must work out.

Now I understand why a stable overclock after S3 is causing BSOD or other instabilities.

If you prepare a letter, I can send with my name to TechSupport and to my friend at Asus Italy.

[Alien Grey]

I remember some guy on the ASUS Rampage Formula forum posted a message about Ai NAP and how it f****d up his computer.

No wonder he had missing and corrupted files.

[Brama]

I confirm that the dump of MCHBAR registers after S3 is different in some points. If someone needs it, I can send.

[mikeyakame]

Some registers hold inc/dec counters for things like errors, misses, etc so the easiest way to pick out unknown registers that arent listed in Intel X48 express chipset DRAM Register chapter of self named datasheet is to take two or three dumps one after another. Compare 2 or 3 way and narrow down which registers are changing values between all three. These are counters and you can ignore their values!

I'll draft something up in the morning just thought I'd check back on the thread before I sleep!

And yes this is 100% the reason why anyone is getting f'd up S3 resume and BSOD's or corruption on the OS. There is no doubts about it. It may or may not be directly Asus' fault. It might be the AMI core bios code too, which if so they've got a huge problem on their hands because all the bios' using the same ACPI instructions will have this same problem. Good chance if this is the case it's going to be a global issue on lots and lots of boards. If it's solely a problem of the RF it should be easy for them to figure out and fix now we've gone and done their QC testers job of isolating the problems cause. You'd think something like this would be checked during bios QC because if its not doing it right overclocked you can guarantee it wont be normally either. It just doesn't affect you at default clocks and default Performance Level because they are as loose as a pair of jeans 5 sizes too big.

I personally would have thought you would compare something as important as MCHBAR registers pre and post power saving to make sure that they aren't being corrupted or lost, or worse that they aren't being incremented or decremented by the ASM instructions to implement their stupidly named AI aka ASUS INTELLIGENCE options.

I added mine for easy reference. Updated previous post with 2 more offsets that hold a static value that change.

[Brama]

These are mine:

[ElAguila]

Question.

Is there someone who uses 8 Giga PC2-8500 memory on this board and can run this stable at 1066MHz?

I am running 8GB stable at 1116MHz.

[mikeyakame]

Cheers Brama! I'll take a look over yours in the morning, feel free to compare yours to mine too. More eyes on this the better. You might catch some thing I miss and I the same.

Wanna know a neat trick I learnt too. If the LCD poster backlight stays on either during OS boot or after RESUME skews are f'd up severely. So either shutdown or reboot and figure out why. Only other case I seen this was when voltages were playing up but I'd say thats probably related to skews being too tight for the voltage. Provided you haven't got it on permanent backlit of course but I don't know why anybody would it's bloody bright!

[Alien Grey]

I am running 8GB stable at 1116MHz.

Good to know you can run them at 1116MHz.

I ordered a set of 2 x 2 G.Skill PC2-9600.

I don't need 8 Giga right now but if 1116MHz is possible with 8 Giga it's not bad at all.

[MJR]

I am running 8GB stable at 1116MHz.

Care to share your bios settings? I know it would help me, especialy the NB voltages and RAM skews.

[Alien Grey]

I have a question about the mosfet cooling. Right now I am running with the oc I have listed in my sig. I had replaced the thermal paste on the nb with as5. I am getting ready to pull the mobo and replace the paste with MX-2. Should I remove the thermal pad/tape that is on the mosfets and replace it with arctic ceramique or mx-2 or will it be okay as is?

Depends on how hot they get. I'm using Thermalright Mosfet Coolers with the thermal pad that came with them. I've no need to use arctic ceramique because they never get hot with my Q9450@3.72GHz.

With my Pentium D 840@4.2GHz it's something completely different and the Mosfet Coolers get pretty hot. Using better thermal paste could have helped to keep the temperature down.

[ElAguila]

Care to share your bios settings? I know it would help me, especialy the NB voltages and RAM skews.

Here are my settings. The numbers in parentheses are the actual readings. I am using bios 0710. I am currently testing with the CPL set to 7. If I set the AI Clock Twister any lighter than moderate with these settings I can't post.

DRAM Frequency DDR2 - 1116MHz
DRAM Command Rate - 2N
All DRAM Skews - Auto
DRAM Timing Control - Auto
DRAM Static Read Control - Disabled
AI Clock Twister - Moderate
AI Transaction Booster - Manual
Common Performance Level - 8
All Pull In's - Disabled
CPU Voltage - 1.31250(1.2880)
CPU PLL Voltage - 1.60(1.680)
NB Voltage - 1.49(1.504)
DRAM Voltage - 2.02(2.080)
FSB Termination Voltage - 1.40(1.328)
SB Voltage - 1.050(1.072)
SB 1.5 Voltage - Auto(1.552)
Loadline Calibration - Enabled
All GTL's - 0.67x
DRAM Controller Voltage Ref - Auto
DRAM Channel A Voltage Ref - Auto
DRAM Channel B Voltage Ref - Auto

[ElAguila]

Depends on how hot they get. I'm using Thermalright Mosfet Coolers with the thermal pad that came with them. I've no need to use arctic ceramique because they never get hot with my Q9450@3.72GHz.

With my Pentium D 840@4.2GHz it's something completely different and the Mosfet Coolers get pretty hot. Using better thermal paste could have helped to keep the temperature down.

I am still using the stock coolers. I put a fan on the NB area and the NB temps stay good. I replaced that paste with mx-2. I wasn't sure if I should do the same on the mosfets as well.

[MJR]

Here are my settings. The numbers in parentheses are the actual readings. I am using bios 0710. I am currently testing with the CPL set to 7. If I set the AI Clock Twister any lighter than moderate with these settings I can't post.

Thanks. What strap are you using and what fsb are you running at?

[mikeyakame]

Looks like he is either using 12:10 divider on 333mhz strap and 466mhz FSB or so, or 5:4 divider on 400mhz strap with 450fsb or so.

[ElAguila]

I am running at 9x445 with a 4:5 divider

[mikeyakame]

Hey guys,

I'm going to draft up a formal letter to Asus regarding outstanding Issues this board has with bios, and if there are any you can think of besides additional options such as individual GTL landing pin reference adjustment, NB/CPU clock skews, individual DRAM slot clock skews, and possibly individual DRAM channel slot reference voltage control and CPU differential amplitude adjustment, that you would consider problems which need adjusting or fixing please feel free to add to my list.

Here are some known problems I know need to be addressed, at least I can confirm and replicate these problems on 0701 bios so I will assume they are global and not localized or random.

MCHBAR register space not being correctly stored during S3 sleep and resulting in over-zealous DRAM skews on resume which may result in further operating system corruption due to insufficient Read Delay and DRAM strobe window turnarounds during cross clocking procedure.

EHCI hand-off procedure not working correctly during soft RESET when set to enabled. Bios not correctly retaking EHCI semaphore when OS is handing back off during shutdown/restart resulting in USB wireless/bluetooth/possibly cabled devices being unusable during soft RESET POST as OS still has ownership of EHCI semaphore.

Keypress on USB wireless/bluetooth keyboard during USB finalization while USB ports are being initialized (temperamental) can result in instant SOFT reset or USB device not detected so unable to enter BIOS setup.

CPU PLL Voltage not visible for monitoring outside of Bios.

Self Refresh Count Window Timing (tREF) not being set by bios when DRAM frequency is set automatically or manually. Could result in potential page faults or unnecessary repaging of data to memory. Set to Intel default for 800MHz DDR2. Needs to track DRAM frequency as it changes to comply with JEDEC and Intel specs.

AI Clock Twister always having control resulting in unpredictable DRAM Clock & Command skews when they are set manually in bios. If ASUS Intelligence functions break manual control of settings then AI functions need to be able to be disabled permanently otherwise have manual skews take priority or show their current MCHBAR register value in BIOS so manual settings can be tuned correctly before entering OS as to prevent possible memory/system corruption from AI Clock Twister assuming too much skew delay.

NB and CPU clock skew adjustment should be implemented to work around instabilities and cross chatter/jitter where FSB frequency collides with PCI frequency at set points, ie. 300mhz, 366mhz, 433mhz, 500mhz. Windows within 8-15mhz of these frequencies either side suffer high amounts of interference and cross talking between clocks.


These are some fairly important ones that come to the top of my head, if you guys have problems make sure you are using 0701 bios and not earlier ones so we know for sure the problem needs fixing now. Older bios problems will be pointless to explain to Asus bios engineers because they've already fixed them and will say "update to latest bios to fix this" and not take the problem seriously.


Thanks guys. If we all work together I think we can get something done about outstanding issues. I really appreciate you guys helping me trying to get things done. We buy a top tier board and support Asus' enthusiast products we deserve at the least to be listened to and taken seriously. If Asus can't take our problems and suggestions seriously, the people who spend a lot of their free time helping others with these same products obtain stable and dependable systems for POORLY documented hardware they market and POORLY support, then we have to simply start boycotting their enthusiast products.

If honestly I don't see anything done soon the next X58 board I buy will be a DFI one and not an Asus Rampage II EXtreme, I've been supporting Asus products for years as well. I might only be one person, but I'm one person who Asus should consider a valuable asset due to the amount of time I spend trying to help and educate their customers they couldn't give a damn about. There are many of you guys here in this thread too which I would consider the same as myself for the amount of time you guys put into helping out and teaching. If all the customers like us start boycotting Asus' enthusiast products they will start to feel it because we are hard to replace, those who are loyal to them and those who understand and help Asus move more numbers by spreading this understanding.

[Alien Grey]

You are not the only one thinking of buying other brands.

My next purchase will be a new Graphics Card and it isn't going to be a ASUS one.

I've been very happy with my previous ASUS products and never complained about anything. This board has been nothing but trouble for me. It started when i first build this system with a faulty LCD Poster connector on the board. It took me three days and a lot of frustrations before i found the problem. Two pins in the connector made contact with eachother.
My second problem was the Thermal Sensor Cables. Why the hell didn't they include them in the box. They only cost 3 Dollars and it wouldn't have been a problem for me to pay an extra 3 Euros to have them. In the manual you can read that you can buy them optional. They aren't available in Europe. It looks like someone from the ASUS sales forgot to send them to Europe.
I've got a nice Swiftech watercooling system to cool my CPU, NB and Graphics Card. I've bought it to have lower temperatures and less noise from the fans. The fan speeds on this board have been a frustration for me from day one. For months i've been asking ASUS to do something about it.
Why can't they just give us lower fan speed settings in the BIOS? I don't need that high speed because of my watercooling and i want less noise on my ears. Was it a mistake from me to use three 120mm fans in my case?

I think it's time that ASUS start fixing the problems. Maybe they don't care if we don't buy their products anymore at least not now. Two generations of motherboards further they will see that they made a mistake because the enthusiasts will be using an other brand and the guys that can use a little bit support won't have no choice than to buy that brand to.

[mikeyakame]

Damn AI clock twister is driving me crazy. Keeps changing my DRAM clock skews randomly. One boot they are at 3T/2T/3T/2T next they are 6T/5T/6T/5T simply if I touch a voltage?!?!? What the hell gah. My Windows Update keeps breaking now too since the S3 Resume incident. I've done system restore 4 times now to fix it. If this keeps up I'm going to have to do a complete Windows reinstall, and I don't want to because that's going to kill at least 10-12hours.

[Brama]

I would add to your letter to fix the backlight issue of LCD Poster.
If I set from BIOS the backlight OFF, it stays OFF untill S3 resume. From that point it is always ON.

Example:

- backlight in BIOS is OFF
- starting a cold boot
- the light is ON until the last POST step
- as soon the LCD Poster is displaying time, the light goes OFF (as programmed in BIOS).
- I order Vista to put PC in S3 mode (S3 is forced in BIOS)
- the PC goes OFF except the power on led that is blinking
- I wake up the PC touching a keyboard key
- after some seconds I have my PC completely on and functional
- the light of LCD poster is ON (not correct).

I can duplicate in my system this bug 100% of times.