AMD RV790 & RV740 in 40nm in March 2009

[HKPolice]

RV790 is 55nm. I don't care what you guys believe, I know this for a fact. Take it or leave it. It'll most likely be pin compatible with RV770 PCBs, with an extra phase on the PWM.

Notice the missing soldering pads in the middle right of the current OEM PCB:
That will be filled.

[Macadamia]

^

Zing!

It's just a process change, from the general perf process to a high speed one.

[Glow9]

Hey guys so tried some googling now I'm confused, the RV790 & RV740 which one replaces what I'm guessing the 4870s new one is the rv740?

[Chad Boga]

Well I'll take your word for it, I was just going off the post times.

Accept your ownage with good grace.

[largon]

It's just a process change, from the general perf process to a high speed one.

TSMC only offers 55GP and 55GC. Who does this high speed process, since TSMC doesn't?

[HKPolice]

RV740 = 40nm, replacement for 4830 and most likely 4850 (but will probably be slightly slower than 4850 with AA turned on because it only has 8 ROPs)
128bit DDR5 = same memory bandwidth as 4850, cheaper PCB, $100 USD MSRP

RV790 = 55nm, replacement for 4870, same 256bit DDR5 but probably with faster chips, should be using the same 4870 PCB but with an extra PWM phase. Rumors about 960SP and 48TMU are probably true, so expect up to 20% boost in FPS for shader intensive games. Pricing unknown, probably still cheaper than the 55nm GTX260.

[Macadamia]

TSMC only offers 55GP and 55GC. Who does this high speed process, since TSMC doesn't?

RV770 uses 55GP. 790 is rumoured to use 55GT, a modified GP.


RV670 used 55GT, funnily.

[Helmore]

Surface area isn't what would be limiting the chip but the perimeter.

Perimeter? I know the memory controller itself is located at the edge of the chip, but the contact pads on the bottom of the chip don't necessarily have to be at the edge of the chip AFAIK. So to me it seems more of a matter of having enough surface area to be able to place enough contact pads on the bottom of the chip.
Also, if you are able to lower the chip's power draw, then you can also reduce the amount of VDD and GND pads, which already take up more than half of the used pads at the moment and thus use a smaller chip that way as well.

???5870x2???

Maybe you should also add a couple of those CFX 'fingers', then that photochop will really start to fly across the interwebz .

[LordEC911]

Perimeter? I know the memory controller itself is located at the edge of the chip, but the contact pads on the bottom of the chip don't necessarily have to be at the edge of the chip AFAIK. So to me it seems more of a matter of having enough surface area to be able to place enough contact pads on the bottom of the chip.
Also, if you are able to lower the chip's power draw, then you can also reduce the amount of VDD and GND pads, which already take up more than half of the used pads at the moment and thus use a smaller chip that way as well.

The traces can only be so small and can only be so close to each other.

[ColonelCain]

RV790 is 55nm. I don't care what you guys believe, I know this for a fact. Take it or leave it. It'll most likely be pin compatible with RV770 PCBs, with an extra phase on the PWM.

Notice the missing soldering pads in the middle right of the current OEM PCB: http://www.pcper.com/images/reviews/581/4870_naked.jpg
That will be filled.

^

Zing!

It's just a process change, from the general perf process to a high speed one.

Well, that would definatly give them the ability to boost the clockspeed. Though, I really am curious as to the performance that you would get from a 4870 at say, 900mhz.

Since it would only be a slight process change, it also makes sense for it to be pin-compatible, and destined for current 4870 PCB's, with an extra phase.

What I really want to know though, is if the tweaked the design other than going for the high-performance proccess node variant.

I also wonder if AMD will have this as a hard launch, and how much of a price premium it will be over current 4870's.

[Martin.v.r]

Sorry whit the foto,s fun in the street
hopes of something news,from ATI.

[Shadowmage]

Can you explain your post for the uninitiated? What is "pad limited" etc?

Basically, chips have pads or pins, which connect them to the outside world. These pads are used for VDD/GND (power), as well as I/O (for example, connecting to GDDR and PCI-E, as well as JTAG, scan chain, etc test pins). These are either connected to the perimeter of the chip or on the entire bottom of the chip on a separate layer. Therefore, if we need 100 pads for example, then the minimum size of the chip is equal to 100*pad area. If your logic area is less than that, then you are pad limited.

Being pad limited is something very good for any complex chip design, since that means you can add "free" logic

[zanzabar]

Hey guys so tried some googling now I'm confused, the RV790 & RV740 which one replaces what I'm guessing the 4870s new one is the rv740?

the rv790 should be the 4870 replacement the rv740 is the cut down gpu on a tiny die to replace the 4830/4670/4650 and to add the mobile 4850

[cegras]

From what the speculation is, a RV740 > 4830 > 9600GT, right? I'm thinking about a small upgrade .. : >

[zanzabar]

depending on the clock and if its gddr3 or 5 it will be some ware from the 4830 up to or slightly higher than the 4850. and it should retail relatively low. and sapphire told mne to rma my dead fan 3870 since they only make single slots facing the front of the case and that will be the same price point as the 3870 so they could rma and give me one. so thats what im looking forward to if its gddr5

[Helmore]

depending on the clock and if its gddr3 or 5 it will be some ware from the 4830 up to or slightly higher than the 4850. and it should retail relatively low. and sapphire told mne to rma my dead fan 3870 since they only make single slots facing the front of the case and that will be the same price point as the 3870 so they could rma and give me one. so thats what im looking forward to if its gddr5

Did Sapphire really tell you about the upcoming RV740? I never expected a company like that to do such things as it will have effect on their current sales as some might wait for the new product. They also basically confirmed that RV740's launch is not so far away and also where it should fit in the current line-up.

My guess would be that RV740 will be called the 4700 series of chips and RV790 will be sold as the 4900 series and the current 4800 will be scrapped. Just my prediction though. My prediction for is that RV740 will be a modified RV770 on a 40 nm. process, it will have 8 SIMD cores, 4 ROP clusters with each 4 ROPs and a 32-bit memory controller, no Sideport and it should be smaller than 120 mm^2. As for RV790, well I don't know, but I do think it will be made on a 40 nm. process and it will have more SIMDs than RV770.

[HKPolice]

Did Sapphire really tell you about the upcoming RV740? I never expected a company like that to do such things as it will have effect on their current sales as some might wait for the new product. They also basically confirmed that RV740's launch is not so far away and also where it should fit in the current line-up.

My guess would be that RV740 will be called the 4700 series of chips and RV790 will be sold as the 4900 series and the current 4800 will be scrapped. Just my prediction though. My prediction for is that RV740 will be a modified RV770 on a 40 nm. process, it will have 8 SIMD cores, 4 ROP clusters with each 4 ROPs and a 32-bit memory controller, no Sideport and it should be smaller than 120 mm^2. As for RV790, well I don't know, but I do think it will be made on a 40 nm. process and it will have more SIMDs than RV770.

Read my post: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...3&postcount=56

You are wrong.

[Macadamia]

Although I have to say that you still can make a pin-compatible GPU even across generations.


6600GT/7600GT was one of them.

[zanzabar]

Did Sapphire really tell you about the upcoming RV740? I never expected a company like that to do such things as it will have effect on their current sales as some might wait for the new product. They also basically confirmed that RV740's launch is not so far away and also where it should fit in the current line-up.

My guess would be that RV740 will be called the 4700 series of chips and RV790 will be sold as the 4900 series and the current 4800 will be scrapped. Just my prediction though. My prediction for is that RV740 will be a modified RV770 on a 40 nm. process, it will have 8 SIMD cores, 4 ROP clusters with each 4 ROPs and a 32-bit memory controller, no Sideport and it should be smaller than 120 mm^2. As for RV790, well I don't know, but I do think it will be made on a 40 nm. process and it will have more SIMDs than RV770.

they said that its coming out soon and will be priced were i can rma for it, the rest is my speculation. and soon can be 2 days or 6months. and i asked about it, they wernt all we have this gpu out soon

[ColonelCain]

Read my post: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...3&postcount=56

You are wrong.

The "You are wrong" part was completely un-neccessary.

Not that I don't believe you, but how do you know for ceartain? You still haven't given any proof, other than your own words. No need for a 'direct link' kinda thing, but any insight would make your words more credible.

[Calmatory]

The "You are wrong" part was completely un-neccessary.

Not that I don't believe you, but how do you know for ceartain? You still haven't given any proof, other than your own words. No need for a 'direct link' kinda thing, but any insight would make your words more credible.

"All shatap! RV770 is 480SP! I gots a sourse under NDA!"

[Morais]

From what the speculation is, a RV740 > 4830 > 9600GT, right? I'm thinking about a small upgrade .. : >

This is not true, 4830 is suppose to be 9800GT rival and i think the correct order is 4830 < RV740 < 4850

[Macadamia]

This is not true, 4830 is suppose to be 9800GT rival and i think the correct order is 4830 < RV740 < 4850

Err... it's most likely that RV740 will > 4850 too.

[w0mbat]

RV790 needs more units to be faster than RV770 if the retail RV790 will end up w/ the same clks the current RV790 ES chips have.

[Calmatory]

Err... it's most likely that RV740 will > 4850 too.

Either way, it will sell very well under $100.