Probably not a lot of power going out as sound. think about those singing xmas cards that still play a year later, off a watch battery.Originally Posted by roofsniper
Probably not a lot of power going out as sound. think about those singing xmas cards that still play a year later, off a watch battery.
Remounted HSF, re-applied thermal grease, switched fan from controller to motherboard connector. Relocated RAM so it doesn't block CPU cooler airflow.
Result: stressed=58 idle=38, but my room is a lot colder at night ;-) So I don't think it really worked...
allready updated the bios, checked the thermal grease again, it's applied the way it should be.
used overdrive, bios and speedfan to determin temperature, all tell me the same, so I doubt they are all wrong...
I'm going to try the stock hsf tomorrow, I'm done for tonight...
Last edited by The PyroPath; 01-08-2009 at 08:46 PM.
Are people really happy with PII's? Well can't speak for all but i sure am. $230-$275 chip ready to drop into existing system. Low power low heat, undervolts and overclocks like crazy on air, more with water, lots more with cold. It is a cheap overclocking chip with respecatalbe performance that is a stepping stone between agena and 6 core chips with DDR3.
As someone noted, AMD started off with a 3ghz part in a new series. Where they usually start off with 1.8ghz - 2.3ghz or so and end up with 2.6ghz -3.0 within the next few months. Stands to reason that the coming months will yield 3.4ghz - 3.8ghz with refined process and design enhancements. Which would indicate that what was already doing 4ghz on air in overclock would get a further push as the cores are tweaked, while existing chips drop further in price.
Have i missed something? Should this make me sad?
I don't really care much about intel's $800-$1000 platform minus the gpu being at the top of performance mountain. Really didn't expect an I7 killer because it was never AMD's intention. Why? Because that isn't where 95% of the market is. Where AMD has clearly won is in power consumption, both system and cpu, heat output, cost and upgrade pathway.
It's an overclocking chip. It's cheap, i can run my games in 19x12. Why cue the sad panda?
As for the power consumption, almost every site i've seen is testing Total System Draw as UJ pointed out. Almost useless for finding cpu power as...and this is a surprise, when the system is stressed, power draw is increased on everything. NB, SB HD, RAM, GPU, AND the cpu.So a total system draw of below 200w under load is fairly impressive considering that was closer to what phenom 1s consumed when overclocked alone and what I7s consume now.
But then as ajaidev pointed out the reviews in general were dissapointing in how they were actually carried out, lots of intel bias, which is more and more usual, after market cooling for intel and stock for amd while OCing, no OCing results despite posting the numbers the 64bit listing and 32bit testbed is a common tactic i've seen countless times when Intel and AMD are compared.
Have to agree with knopflerbruce, Anantech shouldn't be the deciding factor their reviews and reccomendations have had less and less weight as they end almost every review with a bit of optimism in how intel will negate AMD or nvidia will negate ATI's new part. Yes intel might do this and intel might do that.
In a perfect world intel would fess up and change the marketing slogan for I7's to "Amd inside" But that would be truth in advertising and that's just an oxymoron.
The only reliable source of hardware info more and more seems to be first hand testing or in forums, getting info from unbiased and knowlegable sources.
Comparing AMD to intel seems to be like two people arguing on the phone about the tempature with one inside ...
"it's hot in my house
it's cold outside
but...it's hot in my house
well its cold outside
Both are right, and true, but neither one is relevant to the other.
Last edited by iocedmyself; 01-08-2009 at 11:16 PM.
$800-$1000? Where are you getting your numbers? I just purchased an i7 920, 3GB DDR3, and the Gigabyte X58-DS4 for $750 Canadian; that's $630 US.
For my part I know nothing with any certainty, but the sight of the stars makes me dream.
.
.
And my point is you do not even need to compare it to i7, Just intels low-med quads, And total system draw is not important now? Temps are a lot higher than people thought? Overclocking is not as good as the es samples AMD sent out to be leaked? IPC still below kentsfield? And people think this is a great result? Come on, Sure you can make the argument that it is as good as any cpu when gpu limited etc but that is nothing new. Dont get me wrong, It is ok and will help AMD a lot because people like me will actually consider AMD now instead of instantly thinking Intel when planing low end builds for people, But it is a far way from great. I was hopping for something that would be competitive against i5 when it comes out but instead AMD will be competing with low end quads by then. Basicaly the performance gap between i5-i7 and ph2 is bigger than the performance gap between penryn and phenom1. Still, every build I do atm has a hd4850 in it so AMD are not left out in the cold.
Found my problem, replaced with stock cooler and get lower temps in a warm room, 58 under load and 36 at idle, looked at the surface of my cooler and the prolem seems to be that the base has a few little sharp points that aren't supposed to be there, it even marked my brand new CPU :-( So I'll be going for a little journey to get it replaced
Updated with some of the current reviews, yay!
Well at that price i can guess at the ram
That's $300 for the entry level chip
$260 for the low/mid level Motherboard (cheapest being $210, highend $400)
$70-80 for 3 gigs of 1066 or maybe 1333 ram. About the cheapest you can get and not by any means high end or best OC solution
Fail to include AF HS as intel box coolers are crap and need one to overclock. which would take cost closer to $700 and still is not ideal for OC.
$150 6 gigs of the cheapest triple channel is which running 64bit vista would require
$564 2.93 ghz i7 940
Same motherboard takes it to $974 and bumping up to the $300 mid level board and an AF heatsink brings it closer to $1100
Comparitively existing AM2+ costs $235-$275 to drop in a chip
$150 for mid level GX OC board
$40 for for 4 gigs of OC ram, $80 for 8 gigs
Can use existing coolers
System cost $425 -$505 Which is still not the cheapest you can go.
- If you'll notice, some of the pens outperform I7 in some things
- As i said, system draw has nothing to do with power consumption of the cpu itself, and aside from that phenom II has system load 25%+ lower then I7
- Temps and overclocking were based on stock box cooler for PII's
- Overclocking was done with stock box coolers while intel was getting water in some reviews even than PII overclock was not benched. Yet the consensus is still 3.9-4.1ghz on air with the right board which is a high end 790fx that is closer to the cost of one of the cheapest i7 boards.
- As for your use of gpu, i think it has less to do with "not wanting to leave AMD out in the cold" and more to do with the 4850, 4870 and 4870x2 being the best price/performance ratio on the market as they have been since the day they were launched.
Yep, after being such a rabid supporter of Phenom II I've toyed with the idea of an i7 over the past few days (just switched my GPU to Nvidia 55nm 260 for use with the 3D system soon to be released), and I realized that I may need more horsepower to make that happen. After pricing out an i7 system, it costs WAY more than I thought to assemble even a decent-ish midrange setup. Not even close to being worth it.
I guess if I want to go SLI I'll have to go SLI-on-a-stick, the X58 is totally out of the running for the moment at least. It's price to performance ratio just isn't there.
Asus G73- i7-740QM, Mobility 5870, 6Gb DDR3-1333, OCZ Vertex II 90Gb
Is there any recommended CPU Air cooler to reach 4 ghz or is trail and error.
Well i know a Artic Freezer 64 Pro wont cut it or you have a very good CPU. I guess you will need something like a Scythe Mugen/Infinity.
System Specs: -=Game PC=- | -=Lan Box=-
Thanks, I was just checking it out. Looks good.
Hoping to get the 945BE next month when released, if I can hold off.
Trying to line up the other parts as needed. Truth be told, I would be happy getting a solid 3.6-3.7 stable system.
Forget about Geforce 3D for now. At least until GT212.
Just to let you guys know, got my fan replaced and now my idle temp without C&Q is 38 and the load temp is 48, so that's a good jump :-) that's with the arctic freezer extreme. (Planning on a polish and stuff when the rest of my new system arrives(Motherboard/PSU).
Too bad my powersuply isn't going to be here before next weekend, I cann't do crap atm :-( my PSU is ok with running windows, asking it to power a game is a hole diffrent story
What I can tell you is that, with C&Q disabled and running 3GHz, the diffrence between idle&load is about 50 watts. My old 9500 system ran @ 175/180 watts at idle, after adding some 1066 DDR2 (going from 2=>4GB), adding a new CPU/GPU cooler and adding another system fan, my system uses 201 watts at idle. SO that a 21/26 watts increase after adding twice the RAM, installing extra fans and going from 2.2=>3GHz
If you guys got any questions or thing you'd like me to do which doesn't involve gaming or serious overclocks, don't be affraid to ask :-)
Last edited by The PyroPath; 01-09-2009 at 06:56 PM.
First off, I'm comparing completely new systems from scratch. The upgrade path is a good point, but is only really relevant if you're an existing AMD user.
As far as low-end, mid-range, and high-end is concerned, you can only really argue these points if both platforms are comparable performance wise. If this was a comparison between Deneb and Yorkfield, it would make much more sense; however, the fact remains that you can buy all the cheapest Nehalem stuff, or all the most expensive Deneb stuff, but the Nehalem system still out performs it by a large margin. Furthermore, X58 boards, regardless of the model, are enthusiast level boards; the mid-range boards haven't even been released yet.
The ram I purchased for $150 was 3GB of OCZ DDR3-1333 rated at 7-7-7-20, so, in fact, it's actually higher grade DDR3.
I don't think bringing aftermarket coolers into the discussion is logical, as we're comparing core systems. If you're going to add something to one system, by logic, you have to add it to the other. Besides, if you're an over-clocker, you're going to buy aftermarket cooling anyways, regardless of what chip it is. I'd also like to point out that you can simply buy an LGA1366 retention bracket for most already existing AM2/LGA775 coolers, with many other kits already on their way.
Anyways, my point isn't that Nehalem is the better buy, as that's simply not true. Deneb is definitely the platform to get for price/performance when comparing against Nehalem, I don't think there is any argument to that. I was only a little confused by the $800-$1100 figure tossed out for a Nehalem system, as that's clearly not the whole case.
This is the way I look at it: A Nehalem build is about 25% faster, while also being about 50% more expensive than a Deneb build. So, it obviously isn't for everybody, but the difference isn't as damning as some people make it out to be.
Last edited by YukonTrooper; 01-09-2009 at 07:08 PM.
For my part I know nothing with any certainty, but the sight of the stars makes me dream.
im getting sick of hearing about intel over and over again in the amd section.
QFT
(Have waited for like eternity to use qft, now i have, im happy)
Oh my, what kind of cooler is it so I'll know to stay away from that manufacturer in the future?Found my problem, replaced with stock cooler and get lower temps in a warm room, 58 under load and 36 at idle, looked at the surface of my cooler and the prolem seems to be that the base has a few little sharp points that aren't supposed to be there, it even marked my brand new CPU :-( So I'll be going for a little journey to get it replaced
Thuban 1090 @ stock
Windows 7 Ultimate
Asus M4A78T-E
8GB OCZ Reaper HPC DDR2 1066mhz RAM
6970 Video Card
2T Hitachi Deskstar Drives
(sheepish look) ASUS Physx Board
It's a Arctic Freezer Extreme, the people in the shop I bought it at wentwhen I showed it to them, they never saw something like that and the replaced it. Marking on the CPU isn't serious fortunately. And every brand has slipups, should have been cought at QC but for some weird reason, then ones that slip trough always find me
You don't have to stay away from a brand because of this, if the majority of the coolers were like that you'd hear alot more complaints
--->TeamPURE<---
How come?
I've heard generally positive reviews, as long as I can pull 70-80 fps I should be out of the headache zone.
(sorry for ot)
edit: BTW, I already have a 3D capable 120Hz Mitsu DLP, so the only additional investment for me would be the 200 bux for the 3d glasses. Worst case scenario it sucks and I sell it on ebay and lose a few dollars.
Last edited by iandh; 01-10-2009 at 01:13 PM.
Asus G73- i7-740QM, Mobility 5870, 6Gb DDR3-1333, OCZ Vertex II 90Gb
Found this interesting.. The Phenom II At The End Of Air Cooling
Shows how stable the overclock on air cooling for each benchmark...
lol i saw their phase and ln2 ones but not the air one. thanks, it looks good on that too.
So basically once it's stable, it's prety much stable give or take 100-200Mhz.Found this interesting.. The Phenom II At The End Of Air Cooling
Shows how stable the overclock on air cooling for each benchmark...
Asus G73- i7-740QM, Mobility 5870, 6Gb DDR3-1333, OCZ Vertex II 90Gb
I would say Prime95 would be the best app to prove stability.So basically once it's stable, it's prety much stable give or take 100-200Mhz.
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