And my point is you do not even need to compare it to i7, Just intels low-med quads, And total system draw is not important now? Temps are a lot higher than people thought? Overclocking is not as good as the es samples AMD sent out to be leaked? IPC still below kentsfield? And people think this is a great result? Come on, Sure you can make the argument that it is as good as any cpu when gpu limited etc but that is nothing new. Dont get me wrong, It is ok and will help AMD a lot because people like me will actually consider AMD now instead of instantly thinking Intel when planing low end builds for people, But it is a far way from great. I was hopping for something that would be competitive against i5 when it comes out but instead AMD will be competing with low end quads by then. Basicaly the performance gap between i5-i7 and ph2 is bigger than the performance gap between penryn and phenom1. Still, every build I do atm has a hd4850 in it so AMD are not left out in the cold.