Yes, they will. The question I guess is will they beat them so that people who already own C2 will switch?Originally Posted by informal
Phenom IIs,especially AM3 ones,will do just fine against same clocked Penryns
Yes, they will. The question I guess is will they beat them so that people who already own C2 will switch?Phenom IIs,especially AM3 ones,will do just fine against same clocked Penryns
There are enough systems being built every day it doesn't matter if existing owners switch or not. The only thats going to matter is if the whole AMD system is the same price or cheaper than Intel. And, IMO, most people aren't going to care about the DDR2 - DDR3 war. If they care at all they'll stick with DDR2 (and AM2+) because of the DDR3 price tag ...
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Opteron 180 @ 2.8 GHz || A8N32-SLI || 2x 1Gb Corsair 3500LL Pro || 7900 GTX || Tt 680W PurePower
MCP655 > Storm > MCW60 > 3/4" T-line > MCP655 > Storm (Opty 165) > 2-302 HC w/2x 140CFM Deltas
Latest Toy: 940BE || M3A32-MVP || Corsair TwinX2048-6400C4D || OCZ Stealth 600W
The price is key factor here.If AMD's platform cost is lower than the one for C2Q,than it will depend on the user.If Phenom II is better than C2Q in the particular model of usage for the user in question,then i don't see why one wouldn't switch over.The platform will offer maybe the best bang/buck.C2Q already offers a nice ratio,but Phenom II competition will be quite strong,especially the AM3 one since chips can run in AM2(+) boards.
i7 on the other hand does offer some 15-17% better perf. on average against Phenom II/C2Q but at much higher cost in both platform cost and power draw.
Both C2 and PII are equal as far as "platform" is concerned. MB, memory, etc. are about equal with C2 having a better MB selection. PII prices haven't been released but make no mistake about it, Intel can easily beat them in a price to performance ratio.
Last edited by qurious63ss; 12-31-2008 at 12:39 AM.
To me, having a uniform chipset, gpu, and processor makes an attractive proposition. All combined to form a firey Dragon. heh
most stores in holland have them in stock now !!!
amd 940 @ 3.5ghz stock voltage or 3.7ghz 1,425v home made cpu block 3616 mhz and 2210mhz nb stable
gigabyte ga-ma790fx-dq6
sapphire hd4870 1gb @ 160-200 in idle , 750-950 load, with 2 rivatuner power profiles shortcuts.
2x 2GB OCZ Blade 8500 ddr2 1066 @ 1.85 volt
seagate barracuda 7200-11 1x500gb & 1x640gb (rip 1 500gb barracuda)
seagate barracuda 7200-12 1TB , very nice hd, 5 degree colder then the 640gb
windows xp 32
lian li pc-a70b
cooler master real power 850watt
I have to admit that while not the fastest gear on the market, this 790GX/9950/4870 rig has been one of the most enjoyable gaming rigs I've owned to date, and I started on Wolfenstein 3D.
I disagree. Maybe if you are talking dual cores, but as far as quads go, the Q6600 is being phased out, and intel's cheaper penryn quads have low multis which can limit OC unless you are on a decent (read: more expensive) motherboard. I think it will be neck and neck in the $250-$350 range.
You are also missing part of his point, actually something that many people seem to miss. I am not the first person who finds their AMD platform running a bit "cleaner" than their previous Q6600 rig. As I stated before I still have my Q6600/P35 combo sitting in the closet and would surely be running that instead if I liked it better. I am going to turn it into a crunching rig when I get around to it but I am sticking with my current rig for gaming for the moment.
Last edited by iandh; 12-31-2008 at 02:50 AM.
Asus G73- i7-740QM, Mobility 5870, 6Gb DDR3-1333, OCZ Vertex II 90Gb
My point was that Intel can and will drop prices on Penryn to keep the price/perf ratio on their court.
Please elaborate on the "cleaner" notion.
Even if Intel cut prices, their hands are rather tied as they phased out their sweet spot CPU (9450).
Wolfdale 3M takes a 10% performance hit in gaming compared to 6M. Yorkfield 6M should have the same hit WRT 12M.
They HAVE to cut prices to make the 9400 even competitive with the 920 (which should be at 230-250) that probably beats it due to the cache.
Now 9550 vs 940 is more subjective, as perf/clock is better on the first when tested with DDR3-1866. It all depends on the pricing. AMD has pitted the 940 against the Q9400 and 9300 in marketing slides, which means that pricing is around that vicinity, probably slightly over or undercutting the 9400's 270USD.
The 9550 is still a good deal as it stands, but once newer revisions (even with the same stepping/new stepping) of the P-II roll out with better silicon performance and better OCabilities (now cold bug is resolved entirely, no need for 1Ghz HT anymore on the new revs) the 9550 will actually lose quite some of its lustre.
Platform wise we'll see. If what AMD's implying about using Lucid Hydra in RD890 is true, and if the end result is great (not really needing nVidia's cooperation, just ATI and Lucid themselves making a better MGPU solution) then you bet people will switch to the new platform because it offers something that even the LGA1366 platform doesn't.
AMD uses 45 NM Light imm... something SOI production tech = Lower cost than intel quads.
Amd also gets less "waste" cpu's by doing triquads.
How effective the fabs are compared to intel is out of my knowledge, but well, any1 got numbers of DIE surface on both ? if they are simular amd got it nicely done this time and giving intel some serious compotition.
I
Actually a SOI wafer costs quite a lot more then a standard bulk silicon wafer intel uses.
But since noone know how the yield on intels 45nm Ci7 nor on AMDs 45nm Deneb is, its kinda uesles to talk ybout such things as production costs.
Ok. Following is a description of my hardware addiction:
The AMD chips I currently have in my possession are: X2 3600+, 4000+, 5000+ BE, Phenom 8450, and Phenom 9950.
The intel chips I currently have in my possession are: (had) E2180, E5200, E7200, E8400, Q6600.
For AMD mobos I have a Biostar Tforce550, and Biostar 790GX. For intel, Gigabyte P35 DS3L, and MSI X48 (dead).
I have three different sets of DDR2 800 memory. One G.Skill 2x2Gb, one Corsair XMS 2x1Gb, and one Kingston value 2x1Gb.
For GPU's I have (had) an evga GTX 260 core 216, (had) Visiontek 4850, (had) Visiontek 4870 512, and my current card, Powercolor 4870.
I have played with nearly every conceivable configuration of this hardware, and the "cleanest" or "smoothest" (evidently BS from what I hear) running setup out of them all has been my 790GX/9950/4870 combo. That means least stuttering, best framerate stability, least crashes (stock or OC), least trouble with driver errors, least trouble with hardware changes.
Why is this?
Could be:
1. Mobo peculiarities
2. Ram peculiarities
3. Defective CPU's (umm not likely)
4. An all AMD platform runs better (dunno, maybe)
5. Luck of the draw?
I prefer my Phenom/790GX over my Q6600/P35 in gaming, whether stock or OC'ed. It just seems to run games smoother. Although the average framerate is lower, I seem to get better framerate stability.
Some may say I am imagining it or spouting BS, but I most certainly do not feel that I am.
I am not necessarily saying that AMD or intel is "better" for gaming, all I am saying is "Here is the hardware I have, and here is what I consider to run the best out of the hardware I currently possess"
The funny thing is that I am not the only person I have seen have the same experience, so either we are all imagining it, or there is something going on that can't easily be shown with benchmarks and graphs.
Last edited by iandh; 12-31-2008 at 06:22 PM.
Asus G73- i7-740QM, Mobility 5870, 6Gb DDR3-1333, OCZ Vertex II 90Gb
many people have said it is smoother and the only people i have seen turn it down are people who prefer intel. and the people that are saying it is smoother are mostly people that are neutral and have had experiences with both platforms. i can't say for myself if it is smoother or not but if you look at the design it makes sense. there is no way you can show this on paper that it is smoother its only something you can learn by word of mouth. and if it is smoother then imo its better for gaming. many people refuse to believe this but hey most of those people have never even ran amd before.
might as well avoid that subject. It always leads to flames.
Particle's First Rule of Online Technical Discussion:
As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.
Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.
Rule 2:
When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.
Rule 2A:
When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.
Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!
I would say lets be patient with this topic , as more people start switching from Intel to Amd , they will experience the difference them selves.
AMD Phenom II X550BE @ X4 3.8Ghz | Asus Crosshair V Formula | Gskill F3-16000CL9-8GBRM | 2 X Saphire 4850 in Crossfire | Asus Xonar D2x | Corsair HX750 | Silverstone Raven rv-01
I don't understand how this information cannot be captured in Fraps.
how so? i guess if you took videos of both and compared them together it might work. but the best way to tell is by comparing them side by side. and there are many people that have tested this and have said that it is smoother. so you would just have to trust them. kinda want to avoid this topic since as g0ldbr1ck has said it will just lead to flames.
Fraps does not record stuttering and framerate drops, it records average framerate.
Asus G73- i7-740QM, Mobility 5870, 6Gb DDR3-1333, OCZ Vertex II 90Gb
some people use the video capture although still it will be compressed and it is best to view them side by side.
Far from stable, or even benchable but a scuicide screeny that makes me smile
Running crucial basilisk (love this ram want it to have my children one day) 1.5v runnint 4569mhz 1235 HT 2470 NB and 658 memory....once again still on air. Apologies for abscense went on vacation, then have been spending many tedious hours aiming for highest clock on lowest volts.
AS I SAID, FAR FROM STABLE, IT'S A SCUICIDE SCREENIE
W00t!...very nice!!...
iocedmyself, have you searched for your prime stable limit on this chip (on air?)
Impressive clock!
How cold AIR was for this run?? Room temperature or you used little winter help?
RiG1: Ryzen 7 1700 @4.0GHz 1.39V, Asus X370 Prime, G.Skill RipJaws 2x8GB 3200MHz CL14 Samsung B-die, TuL Vega 56 Stock, Samsung SS805 100GB SLC SDD (OS Drive) + 512GB Evo 850 SSD (2nd OS Drive) + 3TB Seagate + 1TB Seagate, BeQuiet PowerZone 1000W
RiG2: HTPC AMD A10-7850K APU, 2x8GB Kingstone HyperX 2400C12, AsRock FM2A88M Extreme4+, 128GB SSD + 640GB Samsung 7200, LG Blu-ray Recorder, Thermaltake BACH, Hiper 4M880 880W PSU
SmartPhone Samsung Galaxy S7 EDGE
XBONE paired with 55''Samsung LED 3D TV
CPU AMD on LN2.
Last edited by vietthanhpro; 01-01-2009 at 04:57 AM. Reason: I'm sorry ! It run with LN2
When AMD had 64-bit and Intel had only 32-bit, they tried to tell the world there was no need for 64-bit. Until they got 64-bit.
When AMD had IMC and Intel had FSB, they told the world "there is plenty of life left in the FSB" (actual quote, and yes, they had *math* to show it had more bandwidth). Until they got an IMC.
When AMD had dual core and Intel had single core, they told the world that consumers don't need multi core. Until they got dual core.
When intel was using MCM, they said it was a better solution than native dies. Until they got native dies. (To be fair, we knocked *unconnected* MCM, and still do, we never knocked MCM as a technology, so hold your flames.)by John Fruehe
Dante80, honestly as people are usually crying for superPi 1m scores i've kinda veered from trying prime to often other then as a curiosity of my own, have finished 4 core run at 4.3ghz in prime if i recall correctly will have to give that another go here after i recover from new years eve.
Sometime in the next week (granted i can get all the cooling together) i'm hoping to have everything underwater (4870x2 cpu, ram, chipset and southbridge) with a chiller in the loop, as well as do some good old fashioned TEC testing
even so...
BEST RAM EVER
Lightman, i wish i could have a little winter help but i live in houston,tx...winter here usually means the 60's and people acting as if the next ice age is in effecthehe actually have been testing in a bit lower temps, down from 23-24c to 19-20c so nothing to drastic just closed heat vent in test room.
Anyway, i need to get some sleep and test later, just wanted to bring in the new year with a bit of shiny hardware bliss and share it with all of you
when amd users start talking about "responsiveness/smoothness" of their amd gaming rig compared to intel ones, people respond by saying amd users start hallucinating/spewing bs to justify their rig having a better gaming performance that doesnt necessarily show on benchmarks/graphs.Ok. Following is a description of my hardware addiction:
The AMD chips I currently have in my possession are: X2 3600+, 4000+, 5000+ BE, Phenom 8450, and Phenom 9950.
The intel chips I currently have in my possession are: (had) E2180, E5200, E7200, E8400, Q6600.
For AMD mobos I have a Biostar Tforce550, and Biostar 790GX. For intel, Gigabyte P35 DS3L, and MSI X48 (dead).
I have three different sets of DDR2 800 memory. One G.Skill 2x2Gb, one Corsair XMS 2x1Gb, and one Kingston value 2x1Gb.
For GPU's I have (had) an evga GTX 260 core 216, (had) Visiontek 4850, (had) Visiontek 4870 512, and my current card, Powercolor 4870.
I have played with nearly every conceivable configuration of this hardware, and the "cleanest" or "smoothest" (evidently BS from what I hear) running setup out of them all has been my 790GX/9950/4870 combo. That means least stuttering, best framerate stability, least crashes (stock or OC), least trouble with driver errors, least trouble with hardware changes.
Why is this?
Could be:
1. Mobo peculiarities
2. Ram peculiarities
3. Defective CPU's (umm not likely)
4. An all AMD platform runs better (dunno, maybe)
5. Luck of the draw?
I prefer my Phenom/790GX over my Q6600/P35 in gaming, whether stock or OC'ed. It just seems to run games smoother. Although the average framerate is lower, I seem to get better framerate stability.
Some may say I am imagining it or spouting BS, but I most certainly do not feel that I am.
I am not necessarily saying that AMD or intel is "better" for gaming, all I am saying is "Here is the hardware I have, and here is what I consider to run the best out of the hardware I currently possess"
The funny thing is that I am not the only person I have seen have the same experience, so either we are all imagining it, or there is something going on that can't easily be shown with benchmarks and graphs.
the best way to do this to try to qualify/quantify these "feel" thingy which is very subjective.
since you have both intel and amd rigs, you are in the best opportunity to perform this. im not suggesting/asking you do this, just saying maybe if you want to make this "objective", you can actually do this.
this is what i have in mind:
1. load 2 or more games on intel/amd rig.
2. run fraps or equivalent utility.
3. alt-tab on different games.
4. observe drop in fps if theres any.
5. vary timing on alt-tabbing.
6. upload the result.
then people can see it for themselves which one is 'smoother/more responsive' machine.
just make sure you label the correct video matches the right rig lol.
just my 2 cents. btw, im pro amd
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