RD890/SB800 - Hydra Engine + independant clocks per core?

[turtle]

I didn't dare put this in news, as it's just my inferences...It brings some stuff to the forefront though that I think others may have been curious about.

First of all, I found myself in the device ID database, in ATI's device ID's. There you will see some interesting registries for RD890 that are not included in RD790.

5a10 RD890 Northbridge only dual slot (2x16) PCI-e GFX Hydra part
5a11 RD890 Northbridge only single slot PCI-e GFX Hydra part
5a12 RD890 Northbridge only dual slot (2x8) PCI-e GFX Hydra part

http://pci-ids.ucw.cz/read/PC/1002

That's curious, isn't it? I wonder if RD890 will go the route of X58rev2 with a Lucid chip on-board with the ability to use it in single (ie 4870x2), 2x16, and 4x8 mode?


UPDATE: Read the Lucid Hydra .PDF and look at scenario 1.

I think it's safe to say RD8xx will have the option to have 2 card (4-gpu) MGPU SUPPORT MIXED AND MATCHED FROM ANY VENDOR. Hydra is an option or standard.







Then, as I was thinking about my curiosities about what the heck the optional "integrated clock generator" that's supposedly so great about SB800. We hear it gets better clocks from misc sources. WTF does that mean?

Well, the World Patent office says that AMD filed a patent for such 'techniques' on 11/27/08, a month ago...Curious.

It says on the front explaination:

A clock generator (622) includes a first circuit (812) and a second circuit (814). The first circuit (812) includes a first clock input configured to receive a first clock signal at a first frequency, a second clock input configured to receive a second clock signal at the first frequency, and an output. The second clock signal is out-of-phase with the first clock signal. The second circuit (814) is coupled to the first circuit (812) and includes a mode signal input configured to receive a mode signal. The output of the first circuit (812) is configured to provide a generated clock signal whose effective frequency is based on the first and second clock signals and the mode signal.

and includes this pic:


dug a little deeper and read this in the detailed description:

According to various embodiments of the present disclosure, a programmable clock generator is described herein that provides a generated clock signal having a relatively wide frequency range. The clock generator is configured to facilitate a frequency change in the generated clock signal (responsive to a mode signal) without requiring modification of a frequency of a clock signal (e.g., quadrature clock signals) provided by a phase locked loop (PLL) associated with the clock generator. The clock generator technique is particularly advantageous when employed in modern microprocessor systems that employ multiple clock domains, each of which may operate at a different frequency and may frequently change frequency in response to, for example, a power management state change. In this case, multiple clock generators (e.g., one for each clock domain) may be employed to facilitate independent and frequent change in operating frequencies of the clock domains.

I don't know about you, but that sound/looks like four different clocks meeting to create one signal by the CPU. Yes, It can be used to regulate power/heat surely ala CNQ, but I can't help but believe also independently controlled via Overdrive. Sure as heck also sounds like one of those cores could also very-well be a GPU core in the future by the way it's phrased (remember this clock generator tech being important for FUSION?). I can't help but wonder if this is also the cure for when you have a great cpu, but are held back on stability by, let's say, one core, or heat is limiting the clock so you could downclock another core. Dynamic clock vs threading management perhaps also in the user's hands?

Today's phrase is "quadrature clock signals".

Even if is just my mind wandering aimlessly on a Monday night, it certainly makes me more curious about AMD's coming AM3 platform. I'm going to keep trying to wrap my head around it, you can check it out here:

Here Be Dragons

SYNOPSIS: You can clock each core seperately to achieve whatever your goal is (heat/power/high clockspeed on less cores/)

Of course, I could always be waaaay off.

[roofsniper]

thanks for the info. .

[zif33rs]

Well...my wittle brain is spinning...there is for sure something going on here. Heavy reading for a Monday but I like it. Nice post. When you do get something wrapped around this please elucidate?

[turtle]

Spread it around, let's see what factoids we can deduce together, and perhaps translate into Layman's English for the inevitable bullet points @ The Inq.

Hey Roofsniper, I have to ask:

Is your vacinity a coincidence?

[roofsniper]

Hey Roofsniper, I have to ask:

Is your vacinity a coincidence?

hmmmmm?

[Reznik Akime]

A delightful little nugget to keep in mind when Hydra rears it's many heads.

Good eye.

[turtle]

I was just kidding around. I see that you live in the same place (Austin) as the three that filed the patent for AMD.

[Macadamia]

Now this is how AMD is deciding to kick nVidia out of the chipset business? Eek!

So X58's "platform advantages" might be short-lived!

Very nice find, indeed. Thanks!
Looking into the clock stuff, but I'll respond to that later (hopefully)

[roofsniper]

at least now since amd is designing it for both server and desktop they might put more work into it. :O although the 790fx + sb750 was pretty nice.

[turtle]

I think that it's a great way to circumvent Nvidia locking out SLI from AMD/ATi.

Even if they didn't, what's an SLI license these days?

On a side note:

I was always curious if the Lucid Hydra was a marketed version of the Project by the Stanford team funded by DARPA of the same name that does the same damn thing.. (I know...Stanford, Defense Dept., Israelian Company? CONSPIRACY!) That thing was supposedly 88mm2 at 250nm according to one of their PDF's...and remember that Hydra is hidden under a nice heatspeader so we don't know how big (small) it is or how many trannies it has. Think about how small that would be on a current process. At 55nm it'd probably be like 20mm2 tops. Someone (please not Intel) needs to buy (please not Intel) them and incorporate that (Please not Intel) into the core logic of their (hopefully not Intel's) chipset.

[roofsniper]

lol DARPA. i remember those guys in mgs1.

[turtle]

Hey, read this PDF and look at scenario 1 and read the markebable™.

http://www.lucidlogix.com/files/hydr...duct_brief.pdf

Well, that explains the 2x16 and 2x8 don't it?

[roofsniper]

hmmmm i like the fact of having that chip on a multi gpu video card. throw one of those on a 4870x2 and see if it improves performance.

[turtle]

No doubt that it would, but the point of the single PCI-E slot to Hydra device ID must mean that Hydra bypasses whatever onboard-crossfire does, essentially creating the same ending through a means that is more versatile (having it on the motherboard).

If hydra could either combine gpus (on a single card) into one signal or allow for more than 4 gpus, you could have some interesting combos. Four four core cards running through 5 hydra chips (1 on each card, 1 on mobo)? But now we're getting ahead of ourselves. 100TF Home PC's will have to wait.

... a couple years.

[roofsniper]

i think two core cards is as far as its going to go. if they want more than two cores on one card they are going to have to make a multi gpu core.

[cadaveca]

Hydra works as a rendering-work scheduler, and as such can use any rendering device capable to do it's needed tasks. CTM and CUDA make this fully possible, as this allows direct-hardware access, allowing the software-level conflicts to be avoided.

It's quite ingenious, actually.

Add in Sideport, and you could use a 4870x2 as a single device, with a single frame buffer. Microstutter be damned.

So...because it only supports 2-card SLi, can you do both Crossfire and SLi at the same time, choosing which set of cards renders which app, so users can get the most out of each app?

Screw SLi.

[vietthanhpro]

Hydra Engine, add in RD890 or add on main ?

[Macadamia]

The way they say it, it seems like Hydra is quite integral for RD890.

When they even want to use it for single slot, it might be a tight bundle or even built in. If so, AMD gets to boast having the best platform for graphics because it's all unified down here.

It would be VERY hard for say, something like Core i5, since the PCIe controller is built into the CPU.

[DstroyAllMnstrs]

So I'm guessing this would make hybrid crossfire an actually compelling deal with this chipset. Hopefully not requiring vista.

[N19h7m4r3]

I'm excited now, seems I chose the right time to get back into the whole kustom pc scene

[Lightman]

Great find Turtle!

For me this super clockgen sound very familiar to SB750 ACC. It could be it's second incarnation with wider application, like for instance GPU/CPU cores?

[Macadamia]

As far as I know ACC is a novel way of clock skewing (it's not a degratory term unlike what shills like to term it), nothing to do with clockgen.


Rage3D had a 790GX article where they said SB700/750 addresses some issues concerning stability, while ACC skewing was added as a side project.

[Lightman]

As far as I know ACC is a novel way of clock skewing (it's not a degratory term unlike what shills like to term it), nothing to do with clockgen.


Rage3D had a 790GX article where they said SB700/750 addresses some issues concerning stability, while ACC skewing was added as a side project.

But I've read somewhere that SB750 had integrated clockgen and that's why you can get much more stable OC plus going below zero on SB750 boards is easier due to less coldbug. All that thanks to external clock from SB.

But I might be wrong and info I've heard was about SB800 ...

EDIT:
I found this bit of info:

Now its clock generator is fixed and AMD has bolted on RAID 5 into the mix, AMD now (finally) has a southbridge to match the competition. AMD's USB performance has also been notoriously weak and the company has maintained that this has been improved through SB700 and now SB750. We put this claim to the test very soon.

First Look: AMD 790GX IGP and SB750 AMD 790GX and SB750: What's New?The most interesting feature of the southbridge is its new Advanced Clock Calibration feature. Unfortunately we can only allude as to what this does technically because AMD hasn't yet told us specifics, although from the name we can obviously tell it's a new embedded controller that keeps the clock generators in sync as the clock speeds are changed out of spec when overclocking.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...gp-and-sb750/2

It doesn't say what this clockgen is supposed to do. It can be to drive USB clocks, or PCIe, but I doubt it. It's more likely these are driven from motherboard quartz and NB part (maybe expect USB, SATA, IDE). Anyone with experience designing motherboards??

[Throwed]

Fusion?

[Rammsteiner]

Nice find.

There's only one thing, I hope RD890 is going to be great. Whether this new patent clock gen is going to be used or not, I dont know. If they use it, I really dont hope we've to wait 6 months again for a SB850 because SB800 turned out to fail just due to the clock gen.

But... I think AMD learned its lesson from SB600~SB750 pretty much, so I dont expect to see that happening anytime soon. But you never know, I just dont hope so. Im seriously planning to get a RD890 motherboard, but plese, let it work good