I have to correct my little bit too enthusiastic "5ghz+ 9650 is needed to beat 4580 deneb " - while I was comparing some days ago I did not notice all the XP scores on hwbot. With both, deneb and QX9650 under vista the advantage of the deneb will not be that huge anymore but still there is some for AMD in wprime I would say. I just returned back from my first little ln2 experience and gonna write a bit about it within the next hour...