Swiftech Caldera 4870X2 Released

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

sniipe, I see you have a 4870x2 + single 4870. How's is that working for you ?
I am thinking of doing that for our demo system (which I also use for some gaming whenever I have time)?

I saw a review where trifire with 4870x2 + 48701gb was the best performing option. I am bleeding my test bench loop with the GTZ and both 4870 and 4870x2 right now

[gabe]

I saw a review where trifire with 4870x2 + 48701gb was the best performing option. I am bleeding my test bench loop with the GTZ and both 4870 and 4870x2 right now

do you have a link to that review by any chance?

[Utnorris]

Utnorris, explain to me how you can see the name when the motherboard is installed normally:



Now, if the motherboard is installed upside down, as is possible in several high-end cases, this is what you see:



So if you mean to criticize how the name is oriented because in Desktop PC's it would be upside down, then I ask: how many enthusiasts use tricked dekstop PC's (with windows for example) as opposed to towers?

Just give me one valid example please, because I would really like to understand where you are coming from.

One example, Mountain Mods Horizon case or a UF2O CYO with horizontal MB tray, I guess that is two. My point is that it would have been just as easy for you to flip the name.

[gabe]

My point is that it would have been just as easy for you to flip the name.

not if my objective was to reach inverted motherboard users; thus my earlier question: how many MM/UFO users out there would be interest in seeing an inverted logo? if none, then its a moot point. if enough, then it's indeed easy enough to make a few to satisfy the demand.

[Utnorris]

Granted, the the ones with a case where it would be seen is limited, however this is something I stated over two months ago in the original thread. And since this isn't a block that normal people would buy, your words not mine, I would think that more would own a high end case like a MM than not. More and more people are doing horizontal MB trays to show off their equipment, is it more than 5-10%, probably not, but how many are doing a high end water cooling setup compared to a basic setup? At that price it is considered high end, not main stream, not when you can get a XSPC full cover block for under a $100. Therefore the group you would be catering too would want to show off the block and having that big ole name on the side upside down just would not look right. Every one else has placed the name right side up, DD, Koolance, EK and even XSPC, so please do not tell me it is not something people care about. Price the item around the XSPC block price and you won't here a peep out of me, put it in the range of the most expensive cooler on the market and you are going to hear me say something about the details such as the logo orientaion, sorry if that offends some.

[Utnorris]

not if my objective was to reach inverted motherboard users

So this was aimed at Tagan case owners?

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

So this was aimed at Tagan case owners?

lets be real norris, there are 10 times more inverted atx owners than total mm owners combined. the LL v series has been around for as long as I can remember and there were other before it

[gabe]

And since this isn't a block that normal people would buy, your words not mine,

I am afraid you are misinterpreting my words. I would never use "normality" to qualify different groups of users. So these are not my words. What I said was that people who spend $500 on a card shouldnt mind spending a few more bucks for a high performance block if they like the design. There is neither inference nor reference to normality one way or the other in this sentence, but there is reference to socio economic status.

I would think that more would own a high end case like a MM than not. More and more people are doing horizontal MB trays to show off their equipment, is it more than 5-10%, probably not, but how many are doing a high end water cooling setup compared to a basic setup?

Someone recently flammed me for using unverified statistics. So be careful about using numbers here, or you might get crushed by vox populis. Good thing you presented it as a question though. Again, I threw the ball back in your court: how many ppl are interested? The inference is if enough, I will do it.

At that price it is considered high end, not main stream, not when you can get a XSPC full cover block for under a $100.

What's the MSRP on the XSPC? You can only compare MSRP, not market price.

Every one else has placed the name right side up, DD, Koolance, EK and even XSPC, so please do not tell me it is not something people care about.

I do not wish to make any comments on competition in this context; let's just say that I question the validity of this assertion. Oh, and BTW, all Swiftech GPU water-blocks have the Swiftech logo in the same orientation. No one has ever complained about it.

[road-runner]

Damn that's a lot of money, I can buy a lot of ram sinks for that to go with the mcw 60...

[gabe]

Damn that's a lot of money, I can buy a lot of ram sinks for that to go with the mcw 60...

that's right, and our system allows you to set up just anything you can imagine:

(2) 60's with ramsinks
(2) 60's with caldera-HS
(1) caldera complete system

the point is: you have a choice.

this card is very popular. we are hoping to offer alternative configurations to fit different budgets.

[road-runner]

Since I already have the mcw 60s I think that is the way I will go when I water cool them in the very near future...

[gabe]

Since I already have the mcw 60s I think that is the way I will go when I water cool them in the very near future...

a perfectly viable solution

[Baenwort]

that's right, and our system allows you to set up just anything you can imagine:

(2) 60's with ramsinks
(2) 60's with caldera-HS
(1) caldera complete system

the point is: you have a choice.

this card is very popular. we are hoping to offer alternative configurations to fit different budgets.

It is, can't wait for it to show up at some of the WCing sites. This it the last step for me to complete my new build.

I do have a question for you Gabe. Are you able to give us a estimate of how popular this system will have to be for you to make a new shell when the next gen of the X2 blocks come out? It would be nice to be able to save the copper and other parts and just slap on a new shell for the next couple generations of cards.

[Broken]

Would like to see some numbers of this setup vs a full cover from EK or Danger Den with temps for core and memory. Looking for one for my 4870X2 but am leaning toward a full cover just because it does cool the memory and vregs. Since I run two loops I am not worried about the heat dump. My video card will only be sharing the water with my Blackops NB block...

[BulldogPO]

Gabe, any inside fotos?

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

Gabe, any inside fotos?

its mcw60 with water channels, seems pretty straight forward to me...

[gabe]

It is, can't wait for it to show up at some of the WCing sites. This it the last step for me to complete my new build.

I do have a question for you Gabe. Are you able to give us a estimate of how popular this system will have to be for you to make a new shell when the next gen of the X2 blocks come out? It would be nice to be able to save the copper and other parts and just slap on a new shell for the next couple generations of cards.

it is difficult to predict because that depends on how the next generation graphics cards will be designed.

But I can assure you that we do try to lower cost of ownership anytime we can:

example: when we made the obsidian, we worked out an adjustable mounting system that made the block compatible with 8800 (G92) and 9800..

another example: we have embraced the hybrid full cover heatsink + water-block concept because it allows us to make more economical solutions. The extruded GTX200 heatsink is a good glimpse of things to come price-wise; unfortunately the Caldera heatsink could not be extruded for this first release; but the next generation Caldera heatsink will.

[gabe]

Gabe, any inside fotos?

will take some this week and add to site.

[Utnorris]

I am afraid you are misinterpreting my words. I would never use "normality" to qualify different groups of users. So these are not my words. What I said was that people who spend $500 on a card shouldnt mind spending a few more bucks for a high performance block if they like the design. There is neither inference nor reference to normality one way or the other in this sentence, but there is reference to socio economic status.

I interpreted the fact that you stated "people who spend $500 on a card shouldnt mind spending a few more bucks for a high performance block if they like the design" as being along the same lines as people that spend $500 on a video card which is not the norm. Most people are in the price range of the 260 or 4670. Therefore this is considered a high end product by association.

Someone recently flammed me for using unverified statistics. So be careful about using numbers here, or you might get crushed by vox populis. Good thing you presented it as a question though. Again, I threw the ball back in your court: how many ppl are interested? The inference is if enough, I will do it.

I only threw out the numbers in response to ones that were already thrown out and as a question since I do not know the exact figure. But based on yours and other poster's previous responses, MM users would amount to very little. On top of that you threw out the inverted MB tray users as focus group, which like the MM users would not be many. Therefore I would not imagine the number of users of those two segments to be more than 10-15% although as I stated before I do not have the exact numbers and was only throwing it out as a response to someone else's claim.

What's the MSRP on the XSPC? You can only compare MSRP, not market price.

When the price of a product is sold by virtually every outlet at that price that becomes the de facto MSRP. Either that or these retailers are taking huge losses on the XSPC full cover block.

I do not wish to make any comments on competition in this context; let's just say that I question the validity of this assertion. Oh, and BTW, all Swiftech GPU water-blocks have the Swiftech logo in the same orientation. No one has ever complained about it.

Show me one other product in the Swiftech line up that displays the logo that big with lights. The design is obviously there to show off the logo, otherwise why include an LED to display it.

I understand you may not like the criticism of the products price, functionality and cosmetics. In some ways it is a well designed block, however, when EK made blocks without standoffs, they didn't get a free ride based on their past history. When Koolance puts out fittings that rust they do not get a free ride. When BP put out fittings with issues they didn't get a free ride. They took the criticism and either redesigned their solutions or took it into consideration for future products. Swiftech is no different. I stated this before, both this and the MCW60 HD4870 block solution could have been set up as an upgrade path for current users of MCW60's and Swiftech chose not to do that and therefore I will not give them a free ride on details that could have been easily fixed early on. It would be different if it was at a lower price point, at which point I would except minor flaws, but being sold at the high end of the market I will not give a free ride to the fact that the logo is upside down, the heat sink channels do not allow air to flow across them nor does the design allow for the water block to help cool the heat sink and it does not allow for current users of the MCW60 to upgrade. Some manufactures post on here when new products are released and except that there will be feedback good and bad, so that they can get access to a niche market, and I don't think anyone would disagree that this is a niche market. Take the criticism constructively and use it or don't. I have always been a Swiftech supporter and have recommended them to others. I started off with Swiftech products, the H2O-120 was my first setup. Then the Apogee GT with a MCR220 and MCW60. I then added a second MCW60 and a second MCR220 for a second loop with a second MCP355. When the GTZ came out, I was one of the few that defended it when it was compared to the D-Tek Fuzion. The reason I liked Swiftech was because of the value to performance ratio and the upgrade path with which Swiftech has always done with their designs, even you mention this. However I consider this and the MCW60 HD4870 a blatant slap in the face to all MCW60 users that cannot upgrade to these solutions because they are not sold as an upgrade path but as a complete solution only and at a price that in my eyes is not competitive with other solutions on the market and with obvious design flaws.

[jasonelmore]

I just wanted to make one comment and question on the position of the logo. Was this done on purpose or was this a oversight that noone really noticed until the design was already submitted to the manufacturers? It seems like something so simple as the orientation of a logo that can simply be corrected by reprogramming the water jet machine to cut it out in the upright position. But if your manufacturer has already made say, 500 of these then it's obviously to late.

I don't think there are enough MM owners or other horizontal mounted cases like the various danger den torture racks or test bench beds, who just happen to own a 4870X2 and just happen to be in the market for a full cover block, in the market for such a water cooling solution to warrant the change. I would say it would be less than 10 people. But i do have to admit. Someone may do a review later on in a open bench stand like we see everyday on here, with your new block and the logo upside down is just going to stick out like a sore eye. Especially if it's all lit up and glowing.

[dingdong555]

Gabe....Well done. Releasing products now is a bold and brave move. The price is pretty good, I would like to see some temperatures though cause then we could totally compare it to the EK nickel blocks. This block looks awesome and you should be very happy

[andersson.j]

I for one like the industrial look of the non countersunk screws. And who cares about the logo orientation? I expected better from the folks here at XS...

Maybe you should use an ambigram the next time? That would be a nice touch.

[WaterFlex]

Nice block and nice price. Good job, Swiftech

[nikhsub1]

I think it this block is pretty innovative myself. If this was out when I redid my system, I would have got it (if I had the 4870X2, I just have the 4870). Would love to see a 4870 version of this as well. I know it doesn't make logical sense to do so, but the plumbing of a full cover (barbs vertical rather than horizontal) is much more appealing to many, including me. AS much as I love my MCW60 I am tired of the plumbing And to those of you moaning about price, I see many of you spending substantially more on fittings... The other thing to read into here is that the block uses MCW60 bases... when the 'next' card comes out which is sure to be a different configuration which will require a new card entirely, perhaps Swiftech will again employ the same bases and then offer the 'shell' of the card to a user with bases already at a lower price point than the whole thing. To me, this is the beginning of a modular full cover block and I love the idea.

[situman]

Can't believe there's this huge argument over the orientation of the logo. If the argument was over teh orientation of the ramsink fins, I understand, but a logo.......