Real Temp - New temp program for Intel Core processors

[randomizer]

Just for a quick laugh, I found this on another forum:



Distance to Tj Max is (supposedly) 121 on air and PROCHOT still got set off!

[unclewebb]

Distance to Tj Max is (supposedly) 121 on air and PROCHOT still got set off!

It's true. What happens with the Distance to TJ Max data is that it is stored in a 7 bit variable which gives it a range from 0 to 127.

As the CPU core temperature increases the Distance to TJMax decreases to zero. If it gets hotter than this then the data wraps around and starts counting down again from 127.

The version of RealTemp in the screen shot was using TJMax = 95C so it looks like this:

Distance - Tempeature
2 - 93C
1 - 94C
0 - 95C
127 - 96C
126 - 97C
125 - 98C
124 - 99C
123 - 100C
122 - 101C
121 - 102C
120 - 103C
119 - 104C
118 - 105C

I've always been pretty proud of RealTemp for being the only program to realize that the data wraps around and is still quite usable. Looks like another loose heatsink to me.

Most software uses the standard formula:

Reported Temperature = TJMax - DTS

When the DTS data wraps around and goes to 127 they use the same formula and start reporting negative numbers. I'd rather see the correct temperature than -42C. The CPU in the picture is thermal throttling which is what you'd expect to be going on at these temperatures.

Venturer: You have to trim some fat when trying to do some meaningful testing. That huge list of processes only represents half of what's going on. 129 processes running is too many. Task Manager shows 7% CPU usage and in your listed tasks it only shows 2% so whoever else is logged on to your computer is contributing the other 5%.

There is no way you can get your computer to idle down if there is that many tasks running on it. There's file sharing programs running in the background and you could have other users downloading from your computer during your tests.

Edit: Here's a first class program for turning off start up items while testing or permanently:

Autoruns
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/s.../bb963902.aspx

[randomizer]

Damn, so it's not actually that funny after all. Good to know that then. Well that's what happens when you don't install that heatsink right and try running prime95

[burebista]

129 processes?
Man that's too many of them.

As for your case setup from picture looks OK, one intake and two exhausts. Looks like those are 80 mm fans. At what RPM's they're spinning?
IMO your problems came from those stoves: both GPU's and your CPU. And those HDD's "helps" heating up. Your case is narrow and bottom compartment is sealed from upper compartment. Beside that upper chamber looks too large and inefficient (you have PSU there and optical units, they don't need so much space).
For example this is my setup in P182. IMO it's better segmental.



In your case I guess is too much heat which remain trapped in bottom chamber.
Those 2 exhaust fans blows warm/hot air with case closed?
Did you touch your heatsink? At 75°C it should burn your fingers.

[solarises]

Hi to all
This test is a normal?

[burebista]

Yes it's normal if I'm looking at Sensor Movement Test and CPU Cool Down Test but no it's not normal when I see your load distance to TJMax.
What is your heatsink? Your case? Your ambient temperature?

[solarises]

CPU - Titan Socket 775/S754/S939/AM2/AM2+ (TTC-NK35TZ/PW) 100x100
case - Aerocool Extreme Engine 3T
ambient t - 46-51 C
I wish to install water cooling

[burebista]

First of all that Titan cooler is not suited for a Quad at 3.8GHz.
Second, take a look at your push-pins maybe they're not well secured.
Third, touch your heatsink at 100°C it should burn your finger. Literally.

Your case has a lot of airflow so I suspect a bad mount or an impotent cooler for your quad frequency/voltage.

[solarises]

Thank's.

[Venturer]

129 processes?
Man that's too many of them.

As for your case setup from picture looks OK, one intake and two exhausts. Looks like those are 80 mm fans. At what RPM's they're spinning?
IMO your problems came from those stoves: both GPU's and your CPU. And those HDD's "helps" heating up. Your case is narrow and bottom compartment is sealed from upper compartment. Beside that upper chamber looks too large and inefficient (you have PSU there and optical units, they don't need so much space).
For example this is my setup in P182. IMO it's better segmental.



In your case I guess is too much heat which remain trapped in bottom chamber.
Those 2 exhaust fans blows warm/hot air with case closed?
Did you touch your heatsink? At 75°C it should burn your fingers.

Yes those 2 fans spins both at 1500rpm. I tried to touch the heatsink at full load and it is absolutlely WARM....not hot. I tried to reseat the heatsink and checked push pins many times.......changed the thermal grease from artic cooling mx2 to zalman stg1.

I also tried another cooler.........Artic cooling Frezeer 7 Pro......temps remained the same and also this cooler is warm at touch at full speed!

to unclewebb: Is possible dts sensors are reading wrong? Does it depends to bios? I repeat many users states my motherboard reads temperatures 20c higher than real......but do this is related to dts sensor or cpu case sensor?

[JohnZS]

Once again unclewebb
Thanks for this great application
Each time a new version comes out it improves no end, I'm impressed with the FSB and multiplier display.
Anyway I ran the sensor test (uncalibrated) on my QX9650 in Windows XP using the Small FFT's prime setting.

Winning Lottery Number Generator?
Or have intel really put in 2 Core2 Duals with different TjMax?
John

[Bhairava]

Hi all.



Which one i should believe?

[Bullet92]

Hi all.



Which one i should believe?

2.90 because a lot of changes from 2.70 to 2.90 had been done also corrected Tj.Max temperatures.

[unclewebb]

Here's how I calibrate the RealTemp test equipment.
Point Fluke temp gun outside and compare.



Yep, looks about right to me!
Perfect overclocking weather in western Canada today.

Bhairava: I screwed up when I first wrote RealTemp. It was originally based on measurements of the IHS. rge did some testing and determined that the actual core temperature is likely about 5C higher than my IHS temp readings so I adjusted TJMax 5C higher between version 2.70 and version 2.90.

Reported Temperature = TJMax - Digital Thermal Sensor Reading

The DTS (Distance to TJMax) data should be the same no matter what software you use but if the assumed TJMax is different then the reported temperatures will be different. TJMax is not a fixed value. There is an unknown amount of error in this number and Intel has not given the user community any guidance on how much error at their calibration point there really is.

solarises: You list your ambient temperature as 46C - 51C. Ambient temperature is your room temperature. If it was over 46C in my room I sure as hell wouldn't be sitting there using my computer.

JohnZS: I always like seeing your numbers because it helps demonstrate some of my crazy theories. Between the 30% and 88% level, core2 goes from 65.9 to 49.8 which is a difference of 16.1 and core3 goes from 60.6 to 44.3 which is a difference of 16.3. The slope error difference is only 0.2 degrees. The rest of the difference is all a difference in TJMax between two cores on the same die. How's that for quality control?

Your data suggests different TJMax values for each one of your cores. Some cores are pretty close, core0 vs core1, while others like core1 vs core2 might have a TJMax difference of 10C or 11C.

You don't read about stuff like that in the publicly available Intel docs but the numbers in the Cool Down Test tell a story that is hard to argue against. I still plan to have a good look at your numbers and come up with a calibration suggestion for you so bug me on a regular basis. I should have time in the next couple of weeks.

Venturer: rge's testing showed that there is about a 25C difference between the core temperature at full load and the Tcase temperature which is at the center of the chip. A good heatsink does not get nearly as hot to the touch as one would think. I'll go get my Q6600 up over 90C and take a measurement of the top of my Tuniq. We all need some exact numbers to understand this better.

[Venturer]

Hi all.



Which one i should believe?

Ciao Bhairava!

Are you the one from hwupgrade?

We meet again here; cool!

[Venturer]

Venturer: rge's testing showed that there is about a 25C difference between the core temperature at full load and the Tcase temperature which is at the center of the chip. A good heatsink does not get nearly as hot to the touch as one would think. I'll go get my Q6600 up over 90C and take a measurement of the top of my Tuniq. We all need some exact numbers to understand this better.

Good........i hope you will not blow your q6600. However you should implement tcase reading in realtemp.
For tcase temp value i'm using speedfan and Intel Desktop utilities.



Look at this screenshot.


You can notice Intel Desktop utilities reports two system temps: The first Internal system temp is the Tcase temp; the same of Speedfan's "internal temp";
the second system internal temp that reads only Intel D.U i think is the sensor on the motherboard but i'm not sure.
Also notice in speedfan there is a big discrepancy between the temps of the first 2 cores an the last ones.

What do you think about these values?

[Bhairava]

Bhairava: I screwed up when I first wrote RealTemp. It was originally based on measurements of the IHS. rge did some testing and determined that the actual core temperature is likely about 5C higher than my IHS temp readings so I adjusted TJMax 5C higher between version 2.70 and version 2.90.

Reported Temperature = TJMax - Digital Thermal Sensor Reading

The DTS (Distance to TJMax) data should be the same no matter what software you use but if the assumed TJMax is different then the reported temperatures will be different. TJMax is not a fixed value. There is an unknown amount of error in this number and Intel has not given the user community any guidance on how much error at their calibration point there really is.

Thank you uncle, i just read your previous explanations, sorry to ask questions before having searched this thread.
Ok so it's seems that is impossible to determine the real cores temperature, right?

This is my sensor test:


I don't know how to understand it. Thank you mate.

Ciao Bhairava!

Are you the one from hwupgrade?

We meet again here; cool!

Ehi ciao sono io! Eheh il mondo di internet è piccolissimo.

[unclewebb]

Here's how my Q6600 looks running Prime Small FFTs with the fan turned off.
I'm using a split TJMax (100 / 105) which looks believable.



The side of the Tuniq tower is showing 62.6C



and the top is only at 47C which is 10C above normal body temperature of 37C.



The top feels warm but not at all hot. The side feels hot but I can put my hand on it without worrying about losing any skin.

During normal operation with the Tuniq fan turned on, even when the cores are very hot, the cooler isn't that hot to the touch. With a Dual Core, the Tuniq will be even cooler to the touch since there is less heat being dissipated.

[unclewebb]

Bhairava: Your Cool Down Test shows that core0 is stuck at a Distance to TJMax of 64. Core1 might also be stuck at 64 but it's hard to tell from this one test. You would need to try and operate your CPU in a cooler environment to prove it. You could also reduce your overclock back to default settings with less core voltage and it would probably show the sticking points better.

You could also decide not to get too concerned about temps because while running full Prime load you are still 48C away from TJMax. There's no need to give your core temperature a second thought. It's also very likely that your two cores are using a different TJMax. Maybe 105/100 are your actual TJMax values. Find out the sticking points of your sensors first.

Venturer: You have a bunch of temps from a bunch of uncalibrated sensors. None of these are 100% accurate, 100% of the time. I trust TCase even less than core temperature readings and I know Intel agrees with that statement. That's the whole reason they went to core temperature sensors. For better accuracy to determine thermal throttling correctly. The core sensors have a lot of issues but they do a pretty good job at what they're designed to do; thermal throttling and thermal shut down.

[burebista]

uncle, can you point that gun on a heatpipe? I'm curious what temperature it have.

[Venturer]

Uncle; Burebista do you think changing my heatsink with Thermalright Ultima90 plus papst 92mm PWM fan 3500rpm should improve my situation or will it be useless?

Thank you!

[burebista]

Man I dunno what to say.
I'm puzzled by your 18°C drop with case open so I hesitate to say "Yes TR Ultima is your ultimate solution".

[unclewebb]

uncle, can you point that gun on a heatpipe?

An IR thermometer doesn't work very accurately when pointed at a small, curved shiny heat pipe. Based on the temps of the fins I'd guess somewhere around 70C for the heat pipes. With the board inside a case it's hard to maneuver around it for accurate temps.

Venturer: A new cooler probably won't get you very much extra real world performance. I'd save your money for future upgrades. The QX6800 was a wonderful processor when it came out but now, for $320 bucks, you can get a Q9450 Yorkie that will run faster or a lot cooler at the same MHz. It also has a higher TJMax so you can run it hotter before it'll start to thermal throttle.

I'd spend my time learning to kill unnecessary background processes that create heat and do what you can to improve case temperatures.

[burebista]

JohnZS: I always like seeing your numbers because it helps demonstrate some of my crazy theories.

Your data suggests different TJMax values for each one of your cores.

And another one on ocforums.

[concretefire]

Alright Unclewebb.
Going to ask for your input here. I hope I come across correctly this time.

This is not a "gotcha" question. It is what it is. I LOVE your program. It has helped me feel very comfortable overclocking my Q6600 on my stock cooler.

But therin lies my question. RealTemp is a great tool. But for someone like me on stock air from intel....I have noticed something and would like your input.

Ok, realtemp, test sensors, small FFT's......heat's the $%*&^ out of cores as it should. I'm at 400 * 8 for 3.2ghz and just finished running your sensor test.
I was 16 C from hitting TJmax @ 100%. As I said, it's a great tool. That test told me some things: A) Vcore needs to be lower, OR, (duh) I need better cooling, and B) Probably not going to go over that 3.2 ghz speed until I have accomplished lower vcore AND better cooling.

But I just realized, that's not necessarily all the info I need. I think a fairly "standardized" Overclocking test for stability comes in the form of Prime95 running a BLEND test, usualy overnight, sometimes longer.

What I have noticed, when running blend test, my distance to TJmax doesn't even come close the 16 c I just saw. It MIGHT get up to 30 c to Tjmax or 28c.

So I guess my question is, putting 2 and 2 together, don't you think I could try to push to 3.3ghz, 3.4 ghz. maybe even 3.6.....run the prime blend test for stability, but definately stay the hell away from your small fft test?

The Blend stability test runs cooler than your sensor test, and I believe the blend test * IF IT PASSES * , puts as much stress on your compenents than any real world application. such as video encoders, etc....