Real Temp - New temp program for Intel Core processors

[jasjeet]

ok am doing it now, will post the picture in 10minutes once it finishes

[jasjeet]

[unclewebb]

The cool down test will show the same thing since it's just showing the raw data coming from the CPU. I'd use 0 calibration on cores0, 2 and 3 and only a slight factor on core 1 to balance core 0 while using the split TJMax numbers.

Turn on the log file option and set it to a 1 second interval and then run Prime. Run it for 30 seconds to a minute and then let it cool down. I think your temps are going to be very well balanced. After that you can try resetting your computer to 1600 MHz and 1.10 volts and compare your idle temperature to your room temperature. A difference somewhere around 8C is pretty typical with a Q6600.

[jasjeet]

ok, will post results in 1 minute, this is looking real good

uploaded as attatchment

[unclewebb]

0,1,0,0 looks like some nice simple calibration factors.

When I started this project I thought that all the problems were slope error. Like most people I believed that the Intel assembly line was setting TJMax very consistently but it sure doesn't seem like that now after viewing 101 Cool Down Tests. That feature alone has been a God send to help my understanding of these damn sensors!

You can use the code and /code html tags if you want to post some of your log file.

[jasjeet]

yeah, i used 0,1,0,0 in this one, TJmax at 100,100,105,105. seems like some consistent results, awesome job!
lol kl, its there below

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[unclewebb]

When you have 4 cores, all doing the exact same thing, running the same program, I think my version of the truth looks a lot more believable than the raw data coming from these sensors would lead you to believe. If I had a dollar every time someone remounted their cooler because their temps didn't look right, I'd be a rich man!

All you have to do now is head to the bios and boot up at 266x6 ~ 1600 MHz and 1.10 volts and make sure that your idle temps are realistic. I'm pretty sure they will be.

[jasjeet]

i have one question though, the intel spec says Q6600 has a TjMax of 90, i belive this to be false as this would make my idle temps near ambient, if i told you my ambient was around 22 degrees, and i have my OCz Vendetta 2 heatsink on max speed, would it no be possible i could running a TjMax as the following, 95,95,100,100, therefore making my temperatures around 10 degrees greater than ambient at 32 degrees??

what do you think?

[jasjeet]

here it is

[unclewebb]

That Intel TJ Target number of 90C is pretty meaningless. The best test is to run your CPU at low MHz and low voltage with your case open and compare your reported core temperature to your room temperature near your CPU. I think the results of this test will show you whether 95,95,100,100 is more likely or less likely than 100,100,105,105. You might need a number somewhere between these two. I'm betting on 100,100,105,105.

rge put a lot of time into coming up with some calibration recommendations.
He also burned through and drilled through a CPU or two. Maybe 3.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=2429

[jasjeet]

ok kl man, im going to stick with 100,100,105,105, as at low Mhz in my previos post, it gives the temperature i estimated, so ill leave it at that, thanks for your help and a wicked program. i had enough of these low clocks already lol so im going back to a yummy 3.2ghz l8az

[randomizer]

I'm betting on 100,100,105,105.

If you're estimating that much higher than the official Tj Target then it's no wonder Intel don't want to disclose how large X is.

[unclewebb]

If your case was closed during your test then 100/105 looks pretty good for your two sets of cores. If your case was open then you could subtract 2 degrees from my TJMax numbers and maybe use 98/103. There are so many variables that I usually just round off TJMax to the nearest 5 and use one that makes sense.

randomizer: I think the reason why Intel low balled the 65nm Target TJMax numbers is because they got tired of answering questions about why users temperatures were so high. I think G0 TJ Target is closer to 100 with actual TJMax being somewhere in the 100C to 105C range. 45nm sensors seem to have a wider range. Maybe 100C to 110C for most of them. Until Intel provides us with some engineering data, all we can do is guess. Oh, I forgot, that data doesn't exist.

[randomizer]

randomizer: I think the reason why Intel low balled the 65nm Target TJMax numbers is because they got tired of answering questions about why users temperatures were so high.

They should have done their research before the first round of numbers. I mean c'mon, way below ambient on air? They should have picked up on what was going to happen, and stuck with the higher numbers to start with. Oh that's right, it was just... slope error... of course...

[ericjia]

The Core0 and Core1 in my Intel Xeon E5440 CPU were getting stuck at a DTS value of 67 at idle. Does this mean the real temperatures of these two cores are almost same with other two cores? Only when the real temperatures of these two cores are higher than 67, then can I see the change of temperatures of these two cores? Is the stuck a big issue and do I need to worry about this? Thanks.

[burebista]

Does this mean the real temperatures of these two cores are almost same with other two cores?

Generally yes, but as you can see from jasjeet example it's possible to see a 5°C (more or less) delta between each cores group.

Only when the real temperatures of these two cores are higher than 67, then can I see the change of temperatures of these two cores?

Yes indeed.

Is the stuck a big issue and do I need to worry about this? Thanks.

For me it's not a issue and to quote uncle:

Go use your computer and be happy.

Anyway, take latest Realtemp and make a CPU Cool Down test. Then you'll see how your sensors move.

[unclewebb]

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip

Download the latest version and do a CPU Cool Down Test.
This will tell me a lot more about your sensors. It looks like two of them are stuck alright.

You're right. It's very likely the temperatures are similar for all cores. Lots of sensor issues with these things.

If your CPU runs good then there's no need to worry about this problem. It just won't report accurate idle temperatures. If you ever get core0/core1 above 67C then they will probably work fine.

I switched RealTemp to UNICODE and hope that I finally fixed this ugly problem:

[Metroid]

Thanks Kevin for this amazing program.

I'm also a developer and all I can say is, the current 290 version of this program is almost perfect.

Keep up the good work,

[unclewebb]

Your welcome Metroid. Thank-you for showing off RealTemp with your speedy i7 920. The best way to spread RealTemp is by word of mouth and your 920 at 4.2GHz speaks volumes.

I always have plans for a few more improvements to project RealTemp. Stay tuned.

[ericjia]

[url]http://www.fileden.com/files/
You're right. It's very likely the temperatures are similar for all cores. Lots of sensor issues with these things.

Can I say this CPU is a defective product? Thanks.

[ericjia]

Here is the CPU Cool Down test.
1. Why do Real Temp 2.70 and 2.90 obtain different core temperatures at idle for the same system? (the right snap shot is from v2.7)
2. From CPU Cool Down test result, can I say the maximum core temperatures are around 72, which is same with stuck temperature (core0/core1)?
3. The new version solved the degree symbol display issue (for Chinese). Great!
4. One small bag: when "Always on Top" is selected, if you right click the title of the main window, you don't have any chance to select any item from the menu. The menu either moves back to the main window quickly or destroys the main window display.

Any input about my CPU cool down test is appreciated.

[randomizer]

Can I say this CPU is a defective product? Thanks.

As long as the CPU throttles at an appropriate temperature, the sensors are working as they were designed to. Therefore Intel won't accept it as defective.

[DJSUB]

is it true that the tjmax for Q6600 G0 is 90c?

[unclewebb]

ericjia: 1) The problem with getting temperature data from Intel Core processors is that they do not have a typical thermometer inside. They work backwards. As the CPU heats up the Distance to TJMax decreases until it reaches zero. At this point, or about 2 degrees before this point, the processor will start to thermal throttle and try to cool itself down. The formula used looks like this:

Reported Temperature = TJMax - DTS

DTS is the raw data from the digital thermal sensors and TJMax is the temperature where the DTS will be reporting zero.

The problem has always been that Intel has been very secretive about TJMax and until just recently have refused to release this information to users. Intel is calling the numbers they did release recently TJ Target which may or may not be exactly equal to TJMax. For some processors it seems that the two are pretty much equal while for other processors TJMax might be 10C or more degrees higher than Intel's TJ Target numbers.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you don't have the correct TJMax for your processor then using that formula above is not going to be able to give you accurate core temperatures.

If you open up the Settings window in both version of RealTemp you will notice that one version uses TJMax=95C and the latest version uses TJMax=100C. That's where the 5C difference in your reported temperatures is coming from.

As a programmer, there seem to be so many inconsistencies in the documentation released by Intel that I've decided to ignore it. Intel also admits that TJMax is not a fixed number and may vary a little from one processor to the next, even of the exact same model. TJMax also seems to vary from the left side to the right side of many Quad core processors. Because of all of these problems as well as the sticking sensors that your CPU has, Intel does not recommend using them to report core temperatures. They disagree with programs like RealTemp and they probably really dislike the latest Cool Down Test in RealTemp that shows users just how bad these sensors really are.

I looked up your E5440 and Intel says the TJ Target is 85C. I have no idea how accurate that is. Changing RealTemp and setting TJMax to 85C instead of the present 100C is going to instantly drop your reported temperatures by 15C. Is this accurate? I don't know. Maybe.

The best test that we've come up with to try and prove whether a TJMax value is possible or impossible is by running your CPU at very low MHz and core voltage. The plan is to reduce the heat output to a fixed amount so you can compare to what other users have found. The problem you'll have with this test is that your motherboard may not allow you to set your core voltage manually to a low enough value. For 45nm, I recommend about 2000 MHz and 1.10 volts. If your board doesn't allow manual voltage adjustment then make sure SpeedStep and C1E are enabled in the bios. After you boot up and when you are at idle, your computer should drop down the voltage and MHz to similar values. Use a program like CPU-Z to confirm this.

Try this test and compare your reported idle temperature to your room temperature near your open computer case. 8C to 10C higher is a typical gradient depending on what CPU cooler you're using. Let me know a few more details like that.

2) Holy smokes. So far I've only answered question 1.
At the moment, we can't say anything about your maximum core temperature during this test. Until we are more sure of TJMax, these are just a bunch of numbers.

3) You have no idea how happy I am to finally have got rid of the Chinese symbol. Switching a program after the fact to UNICODE was about an 8 hour pain in the butt just to get rid of that funny looking character. Do you know what it means? I hope I didn't offend anyone with that.

4) I don't think I can do anything to fix problem 4. I've also noticed that issue and will have another look. I might have to momentarily turn off the Always on Top feature when a menu is selected.

For your Cool Down Test, sensors for core0 and core1 are stuck and will be useless. The other two sensors look pretty good. If you can find the correct TJMax, they should give some reasonably accurate core temperatures. Give the low MHz / low voltage test a try.

DJSUB: Yes and no. Intel says the TJ Target for the Q6600 is 90C. My opinion is that TJMax is actually 100C for most Q6600 CPUs that I've seen and maybe even 105C on some / many of the core2 / core3 that I've seen screen shots of. That's why I'm full of doubt when it comes to Intel's release of TJ Target data that has already been quietly updated once. I'm waiting for their next update before I start to believe some of their numbers.

[DJSUB]

ok thanks for the info master uncle
i will wait for the intel next update & your opinion