Core i7: "Extended" motherboard back-plate highly recommended

[gabe]

I posted this elsewhere, but it seems like it didn't generate much interest, so I decided to start a new thread.

There are several vendors already with Ci7 waterblocks, but unless error or omission on my part, I don't see any of them with an adequate motherboard back-plate.

Swiftech recommends the use of an extended back-plate where high clamping pressure is applied (typically to improve TIM joint). By "extended", we mean a supplemental back-plate to reinforce the stock solution. Here is why.

The distance between mounting points in socket 1366 is quite a bit larger than that of socket 775. As a result, the motherboard is subjected to much higher flexing forces because of the leverage effect. This is the reason why Intel specified a back-plate with this socket. In Desktop applications, this back-plate is barely larger than the socket though.

One may wonder why the stock back-plate does not extend all the way to the mounting holes, and the reason is simple: in mass market applications such as Desktop, I suspect that OEMS are expected to use the Intel stock cooling solution which snaps into the motherboard without removing the later from the case. In this scenario, the mass (affecting dynamic forces -occuring in shipping for example) and clamping pressure (static forces) of the stock cooler are adequate with respect to motherboard flex and the existing relatively small back-plate.

However, in server applications where heavier cooling solutions are needed (imagine a large passive heatsink for a 1U application for example) it would be logical to speculate that one-piece back-plates fully extending to the mounting holes and featuring sturdier fastening mechanisms will be the norm.

I make this point to illustrate the fact that an extended back-plate is highly recommended to prevent excessive flex of the motherboard in heavy duty cooling applications. Not because of the mass of the water-blocks obviously, since they are all much smaller than massive copper sinks, but because of the high-clamping pressure (static forces) that we -overclockers typically apply to improve our TIM joints.

If you add to this the fact that some vendors release crude (dangerous) retention mechanisms which allow end-users to crank the pressure much beyond what the PCB traces can safely sustain, one can be seriously concerned about damage to the motherboard.

We at Swiftech spent a great deal of time (and $) developping a retention mechanism that is both effective AND safe.

So when you guys are looking for cooling solutions out there, all I can say is: buyers beware!

[zlojack]

Good info. Thanks.

[fornowagain]

This is what I use with my EK Supreme (who don't supply one, tut tut). It a modified Noctua similar to the LGA1366 Thermalright mounting kit.

[Movieman]

Agreed, on the dual socket boards I use plates that attach to the MB tray itself are common. Imagine 2-2lb solid copper HS hanging off of a board.

[T_Flight]

This is what I use with my EK Supreme (who don't supply one, tut tut). It a modified Noctua similar to the LGA1366 Thermalright mounting kit.

That would not work with the Rampage II Extreme with it's "Stack Cool" plate on the back. The center cutout needs to be recatangular or cutout much larger to clear the "Stack Cool LGA 1366 Backplate".

[doox00]

I just posted asking about a backplate for the dd mc-tdx 1366 block. I just received it today in the mail and was surprised it did not include one. I hope they have one.. if not I may end up returning the dd block, either that or possibly just making something myself. Seems like it may be easy enough to make something

[gabe]

This is what I use with my EK Supreme (who don't supply one, tut tut). It a modified Noctua similar to the LGA1366 Thermalright mounting kit.

Seems solid enough, but how do you feel about having to do this yourself?

..and how do you know that you have absolute even pressure at all four corners? measure the springs with a caliper? count the turns? how do you know that you are getting the best mount out of your block ?

At this stage of the game, the TIM joint is the single most critical factor in extracting the best performance out of high end blocks, and [EDIT] end users out there are getting short changed if they don't have a reliable and repeatable mounting system.

[BiFfMaN]

Nice more delays in my build...LOL


Note: i ordered the swiftech block and own a RE2

[DarthBeavis]

I just posted asking about a backplate for the dd mc-tdx 1366 block. I just received it today in the mail and was surprised it did not include one. I hope they have one.. if not I may end up returning the dd block, either that or possibly just making something myself. Seems like it may be easy enough to make something

Like I said I will make a call Monday to get it done for you PM me.

[Movieman]

Seems solid enough, but how do you feel about having to do this yourself?

..and how do you know that you have absolute even pressure at all four corners? measure the springs with a caliper? count the turns? how do you know that you are getting the best mount out of your block ?

At this stage of the game, the TIM joint is the single most critical factor in extracting the best performance out of high end blocks, and 90% of users out there are getting short changed if they don't have a reliable and repeatable mounting system.

Agreed, Vapor has a thread here with air cooled HS that shows the same effect. Good solid tight contact is what matters.

[doox00]

Like I said I will make a call Monday to get it done for you PM me.

Thank you, I appreciate that

[SiGfever]

Seems solid enough, but how do you feel about having to do this yourself?

..and how do you know that you have absolute even pressure at all four corners? measure the springs with a caliper? count the turns? how do you know that you are getting the best mount out of your block ?

At this stage of the game, the TIM joint is the single most critical factor in extracting the best performance out of high end blocks, and 90% of users out there are getting short changed if they don't have a reliable and repeatable mounting system.

This is one of the reasons that I chose the GTZ for my latest block. The mounting mechanism is fantastic and it is a no-brainer when it comes to tightening. Before I used a pocket "mm" rule to measure from the mounting plate to the top of each knurled nut and hoped I had the rule in exactly the same place on the mounting plate. The extra large knurled nuts also make tightening a breeze.

[Vienna]

This is one of the reasons that I chose the GTZ for my latest block. The mounting mechanism is fantastic and it is a no-brainer when it comes to tightening. Before I used a pocket "mm" rule to measure from the mounting plate to the top of each knurled nut and hoped I had the rule in exactly the same place on the mounting plate. The extra large knurled nuts also make tightening a breeze.

Agreed, I'm currently still "stuck" on a Cather Storm G5 as I'm too lazy to re do my loop, but when I upgrade to i7 I'm defenity getting a GTz, love the mounting mechanism on it. That and the Cather Storm G5 has no way to mount onto a i7 currently .

[zlojack]

Seems solid enough, but how do you feel about having to do this yourself?

..and how do you know that you have absolute even pressure at all four corners? measure the springs with a caliper? count the turns? how do you know that you are getting the best mount out of your block ?

At this stage of the game, the TIM joint is the single most critical factor in extracting the best performance out of high end blocks, and 90% of users out there are getting short changed if they don't have a reliable and repeatable mounting system.

90% eh?

Are those hard numbers from in-depth market research, or did those just get pulled from a certain bodily orifice?

It's good that you make a point about the mounting pressure for i7 and the danger of warping boards. But the thinly veiled shot at the competition is pretty low.

[Hondacity]

yeah....

where did you get that information? reliable mounting? got proof?

[MadHacker]

didn't you know that 77.85% of all statsistics are made up

[cegras]

yeah....

where did you get that information? reliable mounting? got proof?

The system itself is foolproof, I think. The screws are threaded so all you have to do is screw all of them in all the way to get the intended pressure. Just like thermalright kits.

Or I might be totally wrong.

[T_Flight]

Guys ease up. I discussed this with somebody who is highly respected here. I am not gonna drag his name into this, but he has told me that mounting theser things can be tricky. Some of them have springs that excert so much pressure you could crack a board, and I believe him. Others cxan be tioghtened down all the way, but have less pressure and mnay people are left to mod springs or hard mount. Hard mounting takes ***experience***. After disicussing it I wouldn't try it. Maybe down the road I would, but it would only happen after I had some experience. I would flip out if i busted a 400 dollar motherboard.

Other things that can happen is uneven pressure, and this has been discussed here in articles written by many respected watercoolers in this forum. Movieman just wrote that Vapor also wrote an article about this.

That was not a shot at the competition. It's a fact. To get the best temps you want an even repeatable mount. I didn't read anything into that. I'm glad Gabe posted that, becasue there are alot of people getting into watercooling. I am one of them. I want all the info I can get. It is greatly appreciated.

[Vapor]

Other things that can happen is uneven pressure, and this has been discussed here in articles written by many respected watercoolers in this forum. Movieman just wrote that Vapor also wrote an article about this.

I did?

The only thing I've done recently is this....http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=209230

EDIT: OH I get it!.. Yeah, the difference being that those have a 'bottoming' out screws and are (mostly) notorious for 'bad' mounting pressure. In reality, the pressure has always been great on a TRUE, just the mounting design allows twisting, which leaves most users unsure (for good reason). Still, adding pressure did seem to help

[T_Flight]

Agreed, Vapor has a thread here with air cooled HS that shows the same effect. Good solid tight contact is what matters.

[Bobly]

While I am thankful for the post and the information provided by it, I have to admit that I'm personally not liking the advertising with a hint of propaganda which is originating from it in hinting that other manufacturers are making sub-part blocks and directing people towards the GTZ.

It's one thing to advertise it in one post and then let people discuss, but to talk about something else in such a way as to drive people to a product is pretty low imo...



The way I see it it's kind of going like this:

1: "Beware of bad mounting, stock backplate and uneven mounting could kill your motherboard."
Reader's thoughts: "Oh waow he has a point, I'm now going to be careful when I purchase and search for the words "good retention mechanism".
2: "Aha, you posted a suggestion, but do you have the tools required to make sure it's good?"
Reader's thoughts: "Oooooh nice one... I guess if I don't have a GTZ I might kill my board."






Or maybe I'm just being paranoid

[fornowagain]

That would not work with the Rampage II Extreme with it's "Stack Cool" plate on the back. The center cutout needs to be recatangular or cutout much larger to clear the "Stack Cool LGA 1366 Backplate".

Same on my EX58-Extreme, just use a washers to lift it above the plate.

Seems solid enough, but how do you feel about having to do this yourself?

..and how do you know that you have absolute even pressure at all four corners? measure the springs with a caliper? count the turns? how do you know that you are getting the best mount out of your block ?

What would be great is that I could actually buy your backplate in the UK. I've had to resort to making my own and it works just fine. And yes I measure the depth with a digital vernier to start with, not difficult, when I'm happy with that I drop a length of plastic tube down each spring core to create a stop. Having done this a few donkeys years I check the TIM pattern for dispersal with a few trial mounts.

[eternal_fantasy]

That would not work with the Rampage II Extreme with it's "Stack Cool" plate on the back. The center cutout needs to be recatangular or cutout much larger to clear the "Stack Cool LGA 1366 Backplate".

The "Stack Cool" backplate you're referring to are not something unique to the R2E, infact it is the plate Gabe's refering to in his OP. It is found on all Core i7 motherboards.

From Asus' website;
"Effective and zero-noise heat dissipation
Stack Cool 2 is a fan-less and zero-noise cooling solution offered exclusively by ASUS. It effectively transfers heat generated by the critical components to the other side of the specially designed PCB (printed circuit board) for effective heat dissipation."

Basically just extra copper or other material within the PCB for transfering heat. Nothing to do with the "Stack Cool plate".

This Noctua backplate, and a similer one offered by Thermalright's 1366 mounting kit, is designed to cover the entire stock PCB's backplate, effectively putting the pressure on the CPU and stock backplate, and not on the fragile PCB.



edit: here's a pic of the back plate on an Gigabyte board:

[003]

Any news on what kind of back plate the Fuzion V2 will use on its LGA1366 mounting kit?

[2low4u]

Any news on what kind of back plate the Fuzion V2 will use on its LGA1366 mounting kit?

Haven't seen or heard anything yet dude.