Intel to Retaliate to AMD Phenom II Overclocking Feat, Plans Demonstration at CES '09

[malice85]

On die sensors control the thermal envelopes under which the cores operate. If they were/are "tweaked up/or down (as implied), then it means the cores will not shutoff at those tweaked up/down preset temps.

I think that's quite clear now. The question was more if AMD tweaked the sensors on all PII's in general or just on the few presented at the event, as Francois implies. Personally I can't see where Theo states the latter.

[Zucker2k]

Yes I can read english and spell as well. And from your owns words:

"I am just going to be doing the same as our green buddies, dissable the thermal control, and let s see"

Again how do you know the green team is disabling anything? Clairvoyance? Guessing? Do you have the inside scoop?

Like I said, keep Theo out of this. I never read what he writes.

Come on, you know he is not going to say even if he knew the truth. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Even if it's speculation, sometimes you need to speculate; and for someone who is an engineer himself, I bet he knows more about the general workings of these chips than you do. How do you know for a fact that AMD has not in any way "compromised" the tested chips? And since you didn't read Theo and care not to read him, you need to back off a little, you appear too hostile.

[Daveburt714]

On die sensors control the thermal envelopes under which the cores operate. If they were/are "tweaked up/or down (as implied), then it means the cores will not shutoff at those tweaked up/down preset temps.

I understand what the sensors do... But the way I read it, it was not done just to make a chip capable of ONE extreme run, it was an overall change that will allow all chips to operate in those ranges.

So whatever changes made during the shrink allowed them to tweak the sensors to operate in the new temp ranges without failure.

Hence the "you can be certain that your Phenom will not fail" part..

[Zucker2k]

I think that's quite clear now. The question was more if AMD tweaked the sensors on all PII's in general or just on the few presented at the event, as Francois implies. Personally I can't see where Theo states the latter.

He doesn't. That's why I wrote the point of departure between Theo and Francois is, the former claims ALL PIIs share the same thermal properties/characteristics of the demo'ed chips; while the latter seems to claim the opposite.

[malice85]

He doesn't. That's why I wrote the point of departure between Theo and Francois is, the former claims ALL PIIs share the same thermal properties/characteristics of the demo'ed chips; while the latter seems to claim the opposite.

I may have expressed myself wrong here, sorry. I was referring to what the article makes Francois claim.

[Miss Banana]

I have to say, DrWho does not really make a lot of sense.
Nothing about what Theo said proves that AMD tweaked only the cpu's for the demo's. Nothing about what Theo said implies that the thermal control was disabled for those chips.

In fact if you read Theo's report, the sensible conclusion is that whatever allows these demo'd chips to clock so high, it's the case with all other Phenom II chips as well.

Now we really don't know what is the case, but based on the reports we have, saying AMD modified the demo cpu's, and saying you (DrWho) will also do this to prove a point, is a bit strange to put it mildly.

[taurus_sel]

Come on, you know he is not going to say even if he knew the truth. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Even if it's speculation, sometimes you need to speculate; and for someone who is an engineer himself, I bet he knows more about the general workings of these chips than you do. How do you know for a fact that AMD has not in any way "compromised" the tested chips? And since you didn't read Theo and care not to read him, you need to back off a little, you appear too hostile.

You're free to give him the benefit of the doubt. You're free to do anything you like, that's your prerogative. My point is that if it's speculation, then Dr. Who should have no problem owning up to that.

Engineer? Since when is a performance analyst an ASIC engineer that understands how an unreleased competitor's chip works?

I don't know that AMD did or didn't do anyting. But I do know that someone here is likely guessing at stuff, not owning up to it and stating it as fact.

Hostility? Yeah okay. More like looking for the truth. Why does that bother some people?

[Jimmer411]

At least someone was able to lay hands on a "mother of all chips". I'm still waiting for that 3GHz Phenom which AMD demo'ed to appear somewhere.

Check my sig and many others That barrier was broken a long time ago.












As much as I wanna say that this is pointless and almost immature of Intel (They have nothing to prove), I am greatly lookin forward to another GHZ war After all in the end WE win.

For a long time this community has been split and the animosity shown reminds me of elementary school. Having both sides competitive like the AXP and P4 days will be a great thing for the community as a whole.



From what I read, AMD sensors were tweaked, not disabled. So maybe the cold bug is something that the manufactures put in rather than a by product of the manufacture process?

[Zucker2k]

[QUOTE=Jimmer411;3460109]Check my sig and many others That barrier was broken a long time ago.












As much as I wanna say that this is pointless and almost immature of Intel (They have nothing to prove), I am greatly lookin forward to another GHZ war After all in the end WE win.

For a long time this community has been split and the animosity shown reminds me of elementary school. Having both sides competitive like the AXP and P4 days will be a great thing for the community as a whole.



From what I read, AMD sensors were tweaked, not disabled. So maybe the cold bug is something that the manufactures put in rather than a by product of the manufacture process? [/QUOTE]Wondering the same here.

[Brother Esau]

Maybe we can get a Fugger a Cherry Picked Phenom II to test>>>>>>>>Yes???

[Zucker2k]

Maybe we can get a Fugger a Cherry Picked Phenom II to test>>>>>>>>Yes???

Yeah, that'll be something.

[D-Cyph3r]

Maybe we can get a Fugger a Cherry Picked Phenom II to test>>>>>>>>Yes???

ROFL


Now that'll throw a spanner in the works. :P

[Jazzman]

As much as I wanna say that this is pointless and almost immature of Intel (They have nothing to prove), I am greatly lookin forward to another GHZ war After all in the end WE win.

For a long time this community has been split and the animosity shown reminds me of elementary school. Having both sides competitive like the AXP and P4 days will be a great thing for the community as a whole.

From what I read, AMD sensors were tweaked, not disabled. So maybe the cold bug is something that the manufactures put in rather than a by product of the manufacture process?

My conclusion from reading some articles on the new PII manufacturing process is that improved design has resulted in a consistently better thermal envelope for the operating range of the chip. Hence, in keeping with AMD's new OC philosophy, the company has expanded the op temp envelop to 300C.

I think this is confirmed by the unbelievable 33C at 3.9Ghz (1.55 voltage) while running crysis on AIR. These chips promise to be OC mofos. Whether they best Intel chips is beside the point - they are going to be a blast to tweak with ACC and a billion different iterations of AOD settings - voltages and clocks.

[Manicdan]

last time we had this much OC competition, amd stocks were worth alot more, i hope this brings up the price so i can reap the rewards.

[dogsx2]

The engineers at Intel reportedly carried out a large-scale binning of Core i7 processors, to cherry-pick the best performing part. The scale of binning could well be best of 100,000 units.

The one thing we will know for sure, the chances of someone getting a better chip then FUGGER is about zero.........

[Chruschef]

7Ghz? With more mature motherboard BIOS's I think 6.3-6.7 gigahertz will be attainable, but 7Ghz? thats definitely xtreme..

he can do it.

[gallag]

I think this is confirmed by the unbelievable 33C at 3.9Ghz (1.55 voltage) while running crysis on AIR.

Where is this confirmed? There is no way this will happen, Not by AMD or Intel in the next two years anyway.

[Katanai]

As I'm starting to suspect now, most of the people that are doing the slandering in this thread are in fact nothing more than second or even third accounts. If that is true it's a real shame. Stop the bs people, you are starting to ruin this site. Lately all I get here are flame wars, not news and insightful comments. All I see is AMD this Intel that ATI this Nvidia that. It's starting to feel like elementary school all over again, and I freaking hate school. There are people here that actually work in this business, like I do, and come here to get some insight into this overclocking stuff or because they are overclockers themselves. If all they see are 15 year old's arguing over nothing, how does that impact their opinion on this matter? Overclocking has really matured, this news in a way or another was supposed to show just that. And what are you doing in this thread? Behaving like little kids and arguing over technicalities...

[Jazzman]

Where is this confirmed? There is no way this will happen, Not by AMD or Intel in the next two years anyway.

Informal provided this SOURCE. But other journalists at the AMD demo confirmed as much. For example, we know that 3.9Ghz at 1.55v was obtained using AIR.

While I can't give exact numbers in terms of GHz, I can give you some of the voltages and temps seen while running the Crysis demo. Keep in mind these temps are not anywhere near 100% CPU usage, but they aren't exactly idle either.

* Air: Cooler Master Hyper Z600 - Around 1.5-1.55V / 33C
* Water/Tec: CoolIT Freezone Elite - Around 1.6V / 38C
* Phase Change: VapoChill - 1.7V / Below 0C (software / MB wouldn't report negative numbers)
* LN2: 1.75V (at least during the Crysis demo... *grin*)

[Zucker2k]

Where is this confirmed? There is no way this will happen, Not by AMD or Intel in the next two years anyway.

Except, you have to take into consideration, ambient temps. Is there a theoretical ambient temp for air?

[Miss Banana]

As I'm starting to suspect now, most of the people that are doing the slandering in this thread are in fact nothing more than second or even third accounts. If that is true it's a real shame. Stop the bs people, you are starting to ruin this site. Lately all I get here are flame wars, not news and insightful comments. All I see is AMD this Intel that ATI this Nvidia that. It's starting to feel like elementary school all over again, and I freaking hate school. There are people here that actually work in this business, like I do, and come here to get some insight into this overclocking stuff or because they are overclockers themselves. If all they see are 15 year old's arguing over nothing, how does that impact their opinion on this matter? Overclocking has really matured, this news in a way or another was supposed to show just that. And what are you doing in this thread? Behaving like little kids and arguing over technicalities...

I don't mean to sound rude, but I have no clue whatsoever what you are talking about. So far, 95% of posts in this thread have been normal posts expressing a reasonable opinion.
I agree that flaming and flamebating sucks, but let's not become too sensative to handle someones opinion, sometimes put to words in a passionate way.

[Gendo]

I'm quite curious to see if i7 can reach 7Ghz but on the other hand, us normal mortals will never be able to buy these chips with disabled sensors and nor do I see mobo manufacturers add settings for these in their bioses So the demo will be more like: "look what we can do! You will never be able to do it though"

[Katanai]

I don't mean to sound rude, but I have no clue whatsoever what you are talking about. So far, 95% of posts in this thread have been normal posts expressing a reasonable opinion.
I agree that flaming and flamebating sucks, but let's not become too sensative to handle someones opinion, sometimes put to words in a passionate way.

I'm just saying, this thread was emptied once, for a reason. I'm also saying that this thread is not about AMD's sensors. Dr. Who already said that it was decided that the sensors will not be tweaked for Fugger's run. So what's the relevance in all this talk?

[Miss Banana]

I'm just saying, this thread was emptied once, for a reason. I'm also saying that this thread is not about AMD's sensors. Dr. Who already said that it was decided that the sensors will not be tweaked for Fugger's run. So what's the relevance in all this talk?

Good question, not sure where it came from.
I guess DrWho just never admitted to saying things he shouldn't have said. This thread shouldn't be about him though, so I agree, let's move on.

[demonkevy666]

I'm quite curious to see if i7 can reach 7Ghz but on the other hand, us normal mortals will never be able to buy these chips with disabled sensors and nor do I see mobo manufacturers add settings for these in their bioses So the demo will be more like: "look what we can do! You will never be able to do it though"

they already have 8 threads they really don't need 7ghz.