Ummm yes, with the kinds of numbers they use something like 1000 to 10,000 would be an accurate sampling. Man, I thought they were trying to put a lid on this.
Ummm yes, with the kinds of numbers they use something like 1000 to 10,000 would be an accurate sampling. Man, I thought they were trying to put a lid on this.
they probly cherry picked from a small lot.
Particle's First Rule of Online Technical Discussion:
As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.
Rule 1A:
Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.
Rule 2:
When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.
Rule 2A:
When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.
Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!
not so wise in the ways of the stock market young zucker2k.
Media is under NDA all the time. [H]ard ocp gets a core i7 processor and is told "you cant talk about it for 3 weeks". In that 3 weeks they test the bejesus out of it and drop little hints in various posts. Eventually NDA is lifted and we get 4 articles (ad-farming much? :\). Media go to NDA events all the time and are told you cant talk about this till we tell you that you can, but they do anyways. The idea behind that is just to give journalists something to write about that seems genuine when infact you control every aspect of it.
The funny thing is when a company like AMD says "yeah thats not under NDA" it gets 3 million diggs, and then AMD says "actually we changed our minds you cant talk about that".
But the SKU's tell the whole story. If deneb really can hit 4.0GHz on air I suspect we'll see a 3.2Ghz SKU.
Last edited by MrWizard6600; 11-24-2008 at 11:26 AM.
MarketingOriginally Posted by Zucker2k
While all the reasons you give make logical sense, I don't understand the purpose of the demoI mean, NDA applies to chosen beta testers and OEMs I presume, but these are people whose jobs are to report the news, right? Why bring in media people and tell them to shut up. I mean this has to be a first; the media under NDA??
But it doesn't make sence, well it does create an hype but they will look real bad if they don't deliver. Maybe they want to scare intel in lowering prices in anticipation, maybe they know they have an average product but feel like playing a game, if intel drops prices, they can't jack em up again if deneb dissapoints ( well ofc then can.. but then they would look like the asses ).
Idk, politics and buisiness don't always make sence to me
On the other hand, their getting allot of free press this way, even if it's only among hardware enthousiasts
I for one am looking forward allot to seeing high res vid's of I7's of well over 6ghz running benches ( to show it's just the thermal diode being disabeld and not a totally crippeld chip ).
You know Francois is being attacked for choosing FUGGER who is a known Intel enthousiast, but he already laid out the rules for it and he won't bs anyone about what this cpu is. That's another thing I'm interested in. How high can it run with him behind the scenes working with FUGGER?
And last but not least, Francois got to share a way to disable the diode for every bencher
As in.. hey we can't replicate it, so it never happend
Media can talk, they just can't talk about all.While all the reasons you give make logical sense, I don't understand the purpose of the demo
Edit: Media outlets that do the bidding of companies should not be trusted. All they have to worry about is report the news, period.
Intel let some sites speak about Nehalhem specs way before it launch but they can't tal k about all.
AMD let site preview HD 48xxx but can't speak about architecture.
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Suposably intel was only able to hit a max OC of 5.02 with LN2 but had to go to 4.8 to bench at a recent demo acording to INQ for whatever thats worth. Off toppic i know but I keep reading posts about 6+ Ghz OC on i7.
As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.
Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.
When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.
When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.
Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!
The thermal diode is not disabled in Denebs,that would never happen BTW.I don't know what Francois was thinking when he said that..
It is just calibrated so that it doesn't lock the chip when temp. drops below certain level or go above certain level.That's all.The thermal monitoring works and is not disabled like Francois claims.This was achieved with some changes in design + a big change in manufacturing(apart from smaller node AMD ,for the first time,applied DFM strategy for it's first gen. 45nm parts,which cuts costs and improves yields).
posted by Jazzman in AMD thread
As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.
Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.
When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.
When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.
Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!
Francois wasn't talking about Denebs, he was talking about Nehalems. Francois gave instructions to FUGGER on how to disable the temperature sensor on Nehalem to make sure Nehalem wouldn't crap out under extreme clocks and extreme cooling. Now he will pretty much have to tell everyone how to do such tricks, otherwise it would be a useless achievement to be able to clock it that high while nobody else can.
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Just on the sensor data that could lock a chip.
If you ahve a 8bit value for the sensor data. its usually calibrated like -127 to +127. So imagine it gets under -127. -128 would turn to +127 and the chip would shut down.
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So does this mean that Deneb's sensor is better than i7?
jk!
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That pic is actually not the original.. the original had all the steppinginformation and such, just like this one has some of it not blacked out:
posted by Jazzman in AMD thread
Someone might have saved it to their harddrive, or mayby google has cached it? If so please post it, 'cause it say's alot more than the two pics above.
I'd guess 29.5 multi, with a slight clock variation of less than 1MHz, over a high multiplier like that it can end up making that 20MHz difference.
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i don't get it what's with a cpu-z 1.46
Actually he was talking about Denebs first.He implied AMD was messing with the chips just for the demo and disabled the thermal monitoring thus allowing high clocks.He then said he will give his "special chip" to world class OCer and show intel can do 6/7Ghz clocks by messing with on die sensors(8bit manipulation he mentioned).You can search his post and find this by yourself.
Those that leak things repeatedly get cut off. They can cut off places access to media kits, and if you are a review site, that's not something you want to happen.
My lord man, if I was under NDA I would button it. It wouldn't be "It didn't happen", there would be no "It"...as in "What never happened?". If if asked the answer would be "Huh?". hehe
Also, NDA means that info is confidential prprietary info, and while places leak it, they could get into trouble with the law. I doubt they'd go that far unless it was a serious breach of something though, but they *could*. An NDA is a binding legal agreement. It's not just that, it's just that when you sign one, you give your word.
People crying about an COMPANY (money, money, money) hyping their products, being biased (lol), aggressive marketing, saying half truths, exacerbating their own products etc etc, its extremely laughable
I know i had nothing to add with this comment but some dudes need to get real... We should be very skeptical about anything an company says.... After all, everything they do is aimed at taking money out of our pockets.
An kind, honest, sincere, company, with high moral standards is almost always destined to fail. Sadly, they must work on the edge, sometimes with borderline legal practices in order to compete. If they dont do so, they end up overwhelmed by the voracious competition. The system unfortunately works like this
Want it or not, we live in a semi-liberal CAPITALIST world (most of it at least).
Back to the topic: Interesting speculations so far, and dubious clocks...lets wait and see from trusty independent reviews
Last edited by Tonucci; 11-24-2008 at 01:32 PM.
This much more trustworthy than the blogspot one. 1.6V to reach 4GHz, just like in the recent AMD demo.then what about this shot?
posted by Jazzman in AMD thread
That pic is actually not the original.. the original had all the steppinginformation and such, just like this one has some of it not blacked out:
Someone might have saved it to their harddrive, or mayby google has cached it? If so please post it, 'cause it say's alot more than the two pics above.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_lJdgLM3WR3...0/PICT0470.JPG
Well for keeping their data coherent, the screen of the "system" for that pic, and the desktop seem to match up. Although it looks like they are french (canadian?) given the "Mes Documents" on the desktop. But i do see orthos, and a cpuz file as well. Anyone confirm that card is ATI? Just the 29.5 multi on that score is quite incredible..no htt bump... hard to buy into.. but to their credit, this pic does support the claim moreso, than discredit.
Last edited by villa1n; 11-24-2008 at 01:31 PM. Reason: image hotlinking not working.
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The reason for this
Just look at the CPUZ window.. notice the "over the top compression effects"? Like the gray window area looking pinkish a lot.. Its seems to happen a lot on the CPUZ window only while the others not much affected. The GPUZ looks clean, while Orthos has a slight "pink" on its left border.
Notice that?
Cpu-z folder on the desktop says 1.40, program says 1.46, no validation ... I don't buy it.
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Blogspot debunked.
Original picture..
Original source... http://www.ixtremtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126
LOL! So much for that blog.Blogspot debunked.
Original picture..
Original source... http://www.ixtremtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126
Nice catch Ghostbuster
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