Thermalright Unveils True Copper Ultra-120 Extreme Coolers

[Calmatory]

10C says nothing. Is it from 190C to 180C under -120C ambient?

The delta between ambient(case) temperature and the CPU temperature would help more. If the delta for TRUE is e.g. 33C, and this drops it to 23C..... Then again, if the delta is 95C and this drops it to 85C, then the performance increase isn't THAT remarkable.

Oh and for the hypocrites, and as you can see, my values are intended not to be practical, so don't even think about picking on that.

[Revv23]

If it gives at least a 4C average temp difference it's worth it. Since the original true is just as good as a entry water kit this might take some market back from the badwater.

This would depend on the load but i bet that possible...

low power cpu's obviously wont need this however a high clocked quad might see some gains.

[Davla]

nice True... expensive ...any bench ??? i like more the look of the ninja cooper, but performance dindt increased to much from alu to cu in that case....

[bartx]

Nope, but it buys a ddc and some tygon tubing

I had some time ago water cooling setup for about 80$ Alphacool Nexxxos XP Light, Cooltek CPS 750 pump and Alphacool Nexxxos Xtreme 2x120mm radiator Cheap (used parts), but probably better than all air coolers

[Calmatory]

This is not true. A large majority of that 400W is converted to "work" (either mechanical or electrical). Inefficiency and resistance leads to heat generation, but it is nowhere near the full 400W that the system is drawing at the wall.

Work like what? Do you know what word "efficiency" means in this context?

Inefficiency? What does the energy turn into? Sound waves? Fotons which show up as a visible light inside the CPU core? Even if so, what does light turn into when it collides a solid object? Some of it will reflect, and the rest will turn into heat. Same goes with the sound. Everything turns into heat.

Even if the energy was stored as kinetic energy to the rotating blades of a fan, the rotating blades would cause friction inside the motor of the fan and some friction between the air and the surface of the blade. Some of the energy would be drained due to the air resistance, and that would make air move. Kinetic energy again. Which would later turn into heat thanks to the viscosity of air, friction again.

Here is something for you to think about: If not all of the 400 W goes to the heat, where does it go? Where does THAT energy store itself?

IF it is possible to store energy that way(in your opinion), please share! That would be major breaktrough.

[biohead]

it's only going to perform significantly better than its predecessor when the heat load is huge, passing the break-even point and then when awesome fans are used to remove that heat.

like the XP-90c. it's got potential due to it's capacity, but a great amount of airflow is a must.

[biohead]

Work like what? Do you know what word "efficiency" means in this context?

Inefficiency? What does the energy turn into? Sound waves? Fotons which show up as a visible light inside the CPU core? Even if so, what does light turn into when it collides a solid object? Some of it will reflect, and the rest will turn into heat. Same goes with the sound. Everything turns into heat.

Even if the energy was stored as kinetic energy to the rotating blades of a fan, the rotating blades would cause friction inside the motor of the fan and some friction between the air and the surface of the blade. Some of the energy would be drained due to the air resistance, and that would make air move. Kinetic energy again. Which would later turn into heat thanks to the viscosity of air, friction again.

Here is something for you to think about: If not all of the 400 W goes to the heat, where does it go? Where does THAT energy store itself?

IF it is possible to store energy that way(in your opinion), please share! That would be major breaktrough.

obviously not a physics buff. heat is just one form of energy. a lot turns into heat eventually, of course, but your reasoning is flawed.

just consider the energy needed to ride a bicycle. if everything went into heat, how would you move forward?

[Calmatory]

obviously not a physics buff. heat is just one form of energy. a lot turns into heat eventually, of course, but your reasoning is flawed.

just consider the energy needed to ride a bicycle. if everything went into heat, how would you move forward?

Maybe I made it unclear a bit. But thats exactly what I am talking about. All the consumed energy will turn into heat. It will heat the room with the same amount of energy which is taken from the wall.

Well, you are right. I put it in a bad fashion. Of course, if the case is completely sealed and isolated, it will not necessarily heat the room with the 400 W at any given time, but eventually all the energy taken from the wall will turn into heat and thus the room will be heated with the same amount of energy.

Should be a tad more clear now.

[LexDiamonds]

Calmatory-

Pick up a book man.. In your universe, I can pump 10 gallons of fuel from the pump into a can, place the can into the back of my truck and take the fuel home to heat my house-- and my car magically drives itself with no gas just by virtue of holding those 10 gallons in the can on the drive home.

That is the arguement you are trying to prove here. Work is always being done in any system.. This takes some % of the watts. Watts are a measure of work done over time.

Get a haircut too....

[Calmatory]

Calmatory-

Pick up a book man.. In your universe, I can pump 10 gallons of fuel from the pump into a can, place the can into the back of my truck and take the fuel home to heat my house-- and my car magically drives itself with no gas just by virtue of holding those 10 gallons in the can on the drive home.

That is the arguement you are trying to prove here. Work is always being done in any system.. This takes some % of the watts. Watts are a measure of work done over time.

Get a haircut too....

Oh the irony! You tell me to get a book, when you obviously haven't read yours.

If you do X amount of work, you will also eventually generate X amount of heat, no matter what. How is this different inside a sealed computer case?

You were talking about efficiency. Let's take a simple example: Take a 60W lightbulb and let it light your room. Now, the efficiency of the particular bulb is, let's say, 5,86 %. 5,86 % of the energy consumed is visible light. That would mean that (60*0.0586=)3.51 watts goes into visible light. Now, do you think that (60-3,51=)56.49 watts goes into heat and sound due to the bad efficiency? What happens to the light energy when it collides with something? Does it disapprear? Does it go somewhere we can't see? Under your bed? No. Some of it will reflect. Some of it will be absorbed by the matter it collides with. All that absorbed energy now turns into heat. Same happens with sound. When all the light the bulb emits eventually turns into heat, it means that all the energy consumed by the bulb indeed turns into heat. Eventually.

Edit: This somehow reminds me of the "Cu vs. Alu" discussion in this same thread.

[biohead]

Ok, so what about a computer. If a computer was pulling 400 W for an hour long, and all of that energy (0.4 kWh) would eventually turn into heat... how does that work? The efficiency is say 80%, so 80 W is turned into heat while the computer is running. The other 320 W is turned into other forms of energy for all the hardware to function. Now, after an hour the computer is shut down. Your logic says 0.32 kWh must now be turned into heat, because everything turns into heat eventually. But the computer isn't doing anything, it's not suddenly going to give off more than a kilojoule of heat because it has to. So, enlighten me.

[LuckyNV]

I think you misunderstand efficiency, which I assume you refer to the PSU?

If the computer needs 400W, then at 80% efficiency the PSU will pull 500W from the socket, its that 20% that is lost via heat.
I might be wrong though.

[Calmatory]

Ok, so what about a computer. If a computer was pulling 400 W for an hour long, and all of that energy (0.4 kWh) would eventually turn into heat... how does that work? The efficiency is say 80%, so 80 W is turned into heat while the computer is running. The other 320 W is turned into other forms of energy for all the hardware to function. Now, after an hour the computer is shut down. Your logic says 0.32 kWh must now be turned into heat, because everything turns into heat eventually. But the computer isn't doing anything, it's not suddenly going to give off more than a kilojoule of heat because it has to. So, enlighten me.

How hard is it to understand that all the power hardware takes is released as heat? If you think otherwise then please tell me what kind of energy is it if not heat? Kinetic? Sound? Light? Even if so, all that kinetic, sound and light energy will be released as heat at some point. Thus the 400 W will turn into heat eventually.

How can I make a point across when the opposing person do not have basic understanding about energy?

I think you misunderstand efficiency, which I assume you refer to the PSU?

If the computer needs 400W, then at 80% efficiency the PSU will pull 500W from the socket, its that 20% that is lost via heat.
I might be wrong though.

Excactly.

[fornowagain]

Ok, so what about a computer. If a computer was pulling 400 W for an hour long, and all of that energy (0.4 kWh) would eventually turn into heat... how does that work? The efficiency is say 80%, so 80 W is turned into heat while the computer is running. The other 320 W is turned into other forms of energy for all the hardware to function. Now, after an hour the computer is shut down. Your logic says 0.32 kWh must now be turned into heat, because everything turns into heat eventually. But the computer isn't doing anything, it's not suddenly going to give off more than a kilojoule of heat because it has to. So, enlighten me.

Don't confuse power with energy, the Watt is Joules per second, simply a rate of energy conversion. The Watt-hour is a unit of power, a rate of energy use.

Only consider the system for a single slice in time, an instant. 400W in, some is lost through inefficient conversion. 400x0.8=320, so 80W of energy instantly lost. The current flows though conductors with resistance, convert to heat. Each voltage step or regulation releases heat. The cpu transistors pass current and change state, convert to heat. The fans convert electrical (electromagnetic) to kinetic with friction losses at the bearing, also moving air which imparts momentum which then slows from friction. To simplify say its a well insulated room (no radiation can escape) so a closed system. The energy in must equal energy out. With no energy out, the total energy must increase at the rate of 400 Joules/s. All of the energy used in that instant is either stored or converted. Assuming none is stored mechanically or electrically. As energy can't be lost, the net effect is a rise in room temperature from radiation (which includes direct heat as infra red, also other electromagnetic frequencies e.g. light and radio), convection (hot air) and conduction (the PC gets warm). Now in reality the room leaks energy, you left the door open, the walls absorb infra red and radio noise gets out. Once temperatures stabilize you've reached the point of equilibrium that's where the energy leaving the room equals the energy being used by the computer, otherwise the room would just get hotter and hotter.

The subject to read up on is the conservation of energy and the first law.

[Mati87]

Preorder: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/83...ml?id=hPQ4xkJY

Will ship on October 30th my birthday .

In for 2

[Slovnaft]

dood! that's my birthday too! yayy thermalright.

[DukeDaal]

Will this fit for a nehalem socket???

I think it would fit but you need the back bracket right?

[Asgard_thor]

dood! that's my birthday too! yayy thermalright.

and my girlfriends birthday ;P

[biohead]

Don't confuse power with energy, the Watt is Joules per second, simply a rate of energy conversion. The Watt-hour is a unit of power, a rate of energy use.

Only consider the system for a single slice in time, an instant. 400W in, some is lost through inefficient conversion. 400x0.8=320, so 80W of energy instantly lost. The current flows though conductors with resistance, convert to heat. Each voltage step or regulation releases heat. The cpu transistors pass current and change state, convert to heat. The fans convert electrical (electromagnetic) to kinetic with friction losses at the bearing, also moving air which imparts momentum which then slows from friction. To simplify say its a well insulated room (no radiation can escape) so a closed system. The energy in must equal energy out. With no energy out, the total energy must increase at the rate of 400 Joules/s. All of the energy used in that instant is either stored or converted. Assuming none is stored mechanically or electrically. As energy can't be lost, the net effect is a rise in room temperature from radiation (which includes direct heat as infra red, also other electromagnetic frequencies e.g. light and radio), convection (hot air) and conduction (the PC gets warm). Now in reality the room leaks energy, you left the door open, the walls absorb infra red and radio noise gets out. Once temperatures stabilize you've reached the point of equilibrium that's where the energy leaving the room equals the energy being used by the computer, otherwise the room would just get hotter and hotter.

The subject to read up on is the conservation of energy and the first law.

That makes a lot more sense, thanks. With 0.4 kWh I of course meant 400*3600 = 1.44 MJ. When the system is eventually back to the point of equilibrium, this total amount of electrical energy taken from the wall socket has indeed been turned into heat over its complete time span.

I think you misunderstand efficiency, which I assume you refer to the PSU?

If the computer needs 400W, then at 80% efficiency the PSU will pull 500W from the socket, its that 20% that is lost via heat.
I might be wrong though.

I meant power pulled from the socket. 400 watts means the hardware is using 320 watts with 80% PSU efficiency.

[damtachoa]

Thermalright must consider to hire watercool engineers to build motherboard waterblock instead of these crap copper heatsinks. What a waste! There are 4 things I don't like this heatsink are :
1) Will generate too much dust in the case.
2) Will generate more heat when playing game.
3) Will crack the motherboard someday with that 1kg weight.
4) With that price, I can buy a MCR 320 QP & D-Tek Fuzion V2.

[biohead]

1) Will generate too much dust in the case.

2) Will generate more heat when playing game.

3) Will crack the motherboard someday with that 1kg weight.

wus. motherboards are tough.

4) With that price, I can buy a MCR 320 QP & D-Tek Fuzion V2.

or a pair of shoes. what's your point. Copper rules!

[exhausted mule]

work doesn't allways turn into heat calmatory.

your right in the sense that there's alot of work or "interaction" between different surfaces that end up as heat. but your also forgetting the issue with atoms combining changing the structure. ei: chemical, radioactive and physical through other work.

heat is just a measurement of how "active" molecules are in a given medium.


explain this then, if heat is the one thing everything turned into what's the cause of heat?

[Russian]

i would LOVE to have one of these, unfortunately... these things are wayy too damn expensive for air. You could get a CPU water kit for the cost of this thing.

[Calmatory]

work doesn't allways turn into heat calmatory.

your right in the sense that there's alot of work or "interaction" between different surfaces that end up as heat. but your also forgetting the issue with atoms combining changing the structure. ei: chemical, radioactive and physical through other work.

heat is just a measurement of how "active" molecules are in a given medium.


explain this then, if heat is the one thing everything turned into what's the cause of heat?

In this case that can be ignored as matter does not change it's state. Thus the 400 W in, 400 W out applies.

[exhausted mule]

sure it does. what do you think a semi conductor is?


bah. nvm.