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Thread: Intel Core i7 Processors [models & pricing] ! !

  1. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo_Fox View Post
    You failed to answer me why it didnt help the P4 against A64 single cores (before the X2's were finally released much later).
    SMT is a threading technique, specifically simultaneous multithreading. This is not a novel or new concept, not even for Intel when they implemented in P4. Several microprocessor designs have utilized the concept to improve performance, the catch is that -- as the name implies -- it will only be useful for mulithreaded situations.

    Games are hard to multithread, and back in the day, no game was multithreaded. Add to that that the P4 basic architecture was botched toward the end, gave the A64 a good lead. P4's really sucked at gaiming, though, because of the deep pipeline -- where branch mispredictions incurred high penalties by stalling the processor as much as 30 cycles or more and game code is very branchy.

    http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...ance/page3.asp

    Shortly after HT came on the scene, Intel worked with iD to produced a multithreaded patch for quake 4 ... in this case, it should be obvious that HT does indeed help -- but only in cases where the code is multithreaded.
    Last edited by JumpingJack; 09-20-2008 at 08:18 AM.
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  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shintai View Post
    Because games was and to a certain degree still is singlethreaded. But to say HT was a failure or didnt have a bonus is pretty retarded. And where is your proof?
    Good answer! That was a lame question anyways..

    Alrite, I'll post some stuff.. they're just a quick google search that should include some of what I read on HT from a while ago when it was new and being discussed all over the 'net...


    Hyperthreading hurts server performance, say developers
    Intel's Hyperthreading Technology (HT) is being blamed for server performance problems.

    http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1...9237341,00.htm

    Intel HyperThreading: Problems You Should Know
    "there are no clear advantages the HyperThreading can offer us now" ---i clearly remember reading this statement
    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/news168.html

    Hyper-Threading Considered Harmful
    http://www.daemonology.net/hyperthre...dered-harmful/

    John Goodacre, the writer of the report, went as far as to say that SMT was only really useful as a way to rescue a modicum of performance from when you have a mismatch between the processor's speed and the rate at which you can feed it something to crunch on. Fun to read, at least.. seeing how it states HT not being worth it when it comes to power savings and real physical cores.
    http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquir...hyperthreading


    and more.. all over the web forums like:
    http://forums.opensuse.org/hardware/...m-4-640-a.html

    http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-intere...ad00815-0.html
    http://www.insanelymac.com/lofiversi...hp/t13833.html

    etc...



    Finally,..
    Improving Performance by Disabling Hyper-Threading
    http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/637.html

    Now, do you still want to call me retarded? There were many other articles back then, and I just got the impression that hyperthreading was not "my cup of tea." Many articles did not make HT sound "awesome" enough to catch my attention except for slightly faster Divx encoding times. Let's just drop this lame name-calling and condescending stuff.
    Last edited by Bo_Fox; 09-21-2008 at 04:25 AM.

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  3. #178
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    Holy thread resurrection, but to here's further confirmation that Hyperthreading hurts performance (look at the game benchmarks):

    Quote Originally Posted by Blacky View Post


    Core i7 940 Review Shows SMT and Tri-Channel Memory Let-down
    As the computer enthusiast community gears up for Nehalem November, with reports suggesting a series of product launches for both Intel's Core i7 processors and compatible motherboards, Industry observer PC Online.cn have already published an in-depth review of the Core i7 940 2.93 GHz processor. The processor is based on the Bloomfield core, and essentially the Nehalem architecture that has been making news for over an year now. PC Online went right to the heart of the matter, evaluating the 192-bit wide (tri-channel) memory interface, and the advantage of HyperThreading on four physical cores. In the tests, the 2.93 GHz Bloomfield chip was pitted against a Core 2 Extreme QX9770 operating at both its reference speed of 3.20 GHz, and underclocked to 2.93 GHz, so a clock to clock comparison could be brought about.







    The evaluation found that the performance increments tri-channel offers over dual-channel memory, in real world applications and games, are just about insignificant. Super Pi Mod 1.4 shows only a fractional lead for tri-channel over dual-channel, and the trend continued with Everest Memory Benchmark. On the brighter side, the integrated memory controller does offer improvements over the previous generation setup, with the northbridge handling memory. Even in games such as Call of Duty 4 and Crysis, tri-channel memory did not shine.







    As for the other architectural change, simultaneous multi-threading, that makes its comeback on the desktop scene with the Bloomfield processors offering as many as eight available logical processors for the operating system to talk to, it appears to be a mixed bag, in terms of performance. The architecture did provide massive boosts in WinRAR and Cinebench tests Across tests, enabling SMT brought in performance increments of roughly 10~20% with general benchmarks that included Cinebench, WinRAR, TMPGEnc, and Fritz Chess. With 3DMark Vantage, SMT provided a very significant boost to the scores, with about 25% increments. It didn't do the same, to current generation games such as Call of Duty 4, World in Conflict and Company of Heroes. What's more, the games didn't seem to benefit from Bloomfield in the first place. The QX9770 underclocked at 2.93 GHz, outperformed i7 940, both with and without SMT, in some games.






    For more information visit Techpowerup

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  4. #179
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    ^^ NOTE that CoD bench was "Time to main screen in seconds" not FPS. It was translated incorrectly.

  5. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo_Fox View Post
    Holy thread resurrection, but to here's further confirmation that Hyperthreading hurts performance (look at the game benchmarks):
    It is a double edged sword, as it hurts as it increases performance, however if we come back in the past we will see that the Pentium 4 had only 1 core + Hyper threading which helped most of users with bottlenecks, now things are different 4 cores means not much of a need, because it is hard to find applications at that level.

    If you see correctly even with SMT OFF the performance in some games are a tad less which does not necessarily means Nehalem is failure at all for gamers. As it kept the workstation overloads and furious of gamers at peace, shows Intel did not want to launch something so drastic or revolutionary. Keep it simple!!!

    Metroid.

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    Intel Core i7-965 (3.2Ghz) vs. Intel C2Q Q9550 @ 3.2Ghz (400x8)
    Intel Core i7-965 (3.2Ghz)
    Intel Smackover DX58SO
    3x1GB G.SKILL DDR3 1600 @ 7-7-7-21
    ECS 9800GTX+


    Intel C2Q Q9550 (3.2Ghz / 400x8)
    Asus Striker II 790i
    2x1GB G.SKILL DDR3 1600 @ 7-7-7-21
    ECS 9800GTX+


    left: Q9550 / right: i7-965

    Setup


    Everest


    SuperPi 1M


    SuperPi 32M


    Cinebench R10


    PCMark05


    3DMark06


    Winrar (158MB File)


    CrystalMark 2004R3


    TMPGEnc 3.0 (4 Files)
    (Source: coolaler.com)

  7. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metroid View Post
    It is a double edged sword, as it hurts as it increases performance, however if we come back in the past we will see that the Pentium 4 had only 1 core + Hyper threading which helped most of users with bottlenecks, now things are different 4 cores means not much of a need, because it is hard to find applications at that level.

    If you see correctly even with SMT OFF the performance in some games are a tad less which does not necessarily means Nehalem is failure at all for gamers. As it kept the workstation overloads and furious of gamers at peace, shows Intel did not want to launch something so drastic or revolutionary. Keep it simple!!!

    Metroid.
    Cool! I like you! You're not like some others who just try to take sides and make war. What you said was well said!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chri$ch View Post
    Intel Core i7-965 (3.2Ghz) vs. Intel C2Q Q9550 @ 3.2Ghz (400x8)

    (Source: coolaler.com)


    Core i7 is now so far ahead of AMD, that AMD will have to pull a miracle to be able to keep up. I'm really looking forward to the i7!!! Strange, Windows 7 and Core i7 just like Win XP and Athlon XP back then in the hey-days!

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  8. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chri$ch View Post
    Intel Core i7-965 (3.2Ghz) vs. Intel C2Q Q9550 @ 3.2Ghz (400x8)

    (Source: coolaler.com)
    Nice to see. Quite different numbers from the pconline preview.
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  9. #184
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    are these prices confirmed?

    why does only the 965 get the 6.4GT/s QPI?

    are there any benchmarks to show affect of QPI speed?
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  10. #185
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    No, these are not correct prices from Intel.

  11. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shintai View Post
    Nice to see. Quite different numbers from the pconline preview.
    do we know is this really clock4clock or is Nehalem with Turbo mode enabled?!
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  12. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shintai View Post
    Nice to see. Quite different numbers from the pconline preview.
    Just missing a cod4 load time chart!!

    Got a feeling the benchies are a little handpicked at the moment. We really need some quality benchmarking, from games to servers.

  13. #188
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    um just wondering if the price intel is saying is $999 +- 10%

    what would the price that the retailers buy em for around 50% ish?
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  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedjo View Post
    do we know is this really clock4clock or is Nehalem with Turbo mode enabled?!
    Exactly...

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slovnaft View Post
    ^^ NOTE that CoD bench was "Time to main screen in seconds" not FPS. It was translated incorrectly.
    No, that was FPS.

    The level load times were the memory channel graphs. (Chinese's my second tongue so I'm pretty sure)


    Oh, and the Coolaler numbers aren't that much different. Same conclusion - great buy like the P4 for multimedia and rendering.







    Games?
    Last edited by Macadamia; 10-14-2008 at 03:33 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by radaja View Post
    so are they launching BD soon or a comic book?

  16. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macadamia View Post
    No, that was FPS.

    The level load times were the memory channel graphs. (Chinese's my second tongue so I'm pretty sure)
    there are 2 cod screens, and everyone talked about the first one, and that one was obviously load time.

  17. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shintai View Post
    Nice to see. Quite different numbers from the pconline preview.
    In the few shared benchmarks the numbers look almost the same to me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chri$ch View Post
    Intel Core i7-965 (3.2Ghz) vs. Intel C2Q Q9550 @ 3.2Ghz (400x8)

    (Source: coolaler.com)
    This is what I've wanted to see.

  19. #194
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    Wow those coolaler results are really great!
    The temps are the ~same aon both CPUs, nice!
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  20. #195
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    What exactly does CrystalMark 2004R3 do and why is nehalem slightly slower than penryn overall? I guess it's a single threaded benchmark?
    What relevance does it have for realworld testing? I know the sieve of eratosthenes and fibonacci calculations are realworld algorithms, but are they (and all the others) relevant to real software?
    Last edited by Jacky; 10-14-2008 at 12:46 PM.
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  21. #196
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    Hope this means sweet deals on yorkfields.

  22. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revv23 View Post
    Hope this means sweet deals on yorkfields.
    not really, since mainstream lynnfileds arn't due H209.

    maybe we even see everything above the Q8200/Q9300 going EOL and beeing replaced by bloomfield.

    Meaning Q94xx+ will get more expensive as they get rare.

  23. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macadamia View Post
    No, that was FPS.

    The level load times were the memory channel graphs. (Chinese's my second tongue so I'm pretty sure)


    Oh, and the Coolaler numbers aren't that much different. Same conclusion - great buy like the P4 for multimedia and rendering.







    Games?
    well the coolaler benches do show a 3dmark06 run now it is only one bench but i noticed not only did the CPU score go way up but the SM2 and SM3 scores went wayup despite the only thing changing being the CPU thus we can concluded that the Corei7 did not bottleneck the GPU as much. however it is one bench and 3dmark06 is not the greatest but it does show promissing results. and lets be honest what games need more than a 3.2ghz quad core? the biggest gains to be had are in everything but gaming right now. however i think as new games start to come out we will see the Corei7's pull ahead of the C2Q's in gaming as well.

    but for the non gaming benchmarks man does it fly!
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  24. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacky View Post
    What exactly does CrystalMark 2004R3 do and why is nehalem slightly slower than penryn overall?
    Is it?

    Nehalem 3.20 = 27.0k
    Penryn 3.20 = 21.8k

    I'm not sure if the hard drive is the same, because the difference is huge, other than that all the results were kindly expected for me.

    Metroid.
    Last edited by Metroid; 10-14-2008 at 03:01 PM.

  25. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metroid View Post
    Is it?

    Nehalem 3.20 = 27.0k
    Penryn 3.20 = 21.8k

    I'm not sure if the hard drive is the same, because the difference is huge, other than that all the results were kindly expected for me.

    Metroid.
    You're right, I meant the ALU+FPU scores, which look like CPU-only scores to me. The others may be influenced by GPU/hard drive and I'm not sure why the GPU (GDI, D2D, OGL?) scores are so much higher with nehalem...
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