Worth to change Swiftech MCR320 to Feser Xchanger?

**FrOzE** · 10-09-2008, 07:29 AM

Worth to change to Xchange 360 or 480?
I'm just weighting my options here.

I just bought my MCR320 2 months ago.. but gonna reloop my PC soon. Therefore i'm thinking of changing my Radiator.
Is it worth the money?

Xchanger 480/360 or the Thermochill PA120.3

**zuess** · 10-09-2008, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by RealRedRaider

If you want the "Best Built" radiator, then your search starts and ends with the venerable ThermoChill PA Series...

I agree, just picked up the ThermoChill PA 120x3 to replace the Black Ice Extreme III.

**Bojamijams** · 10-09-2008, 07:57 AM

best build? oh come on man... what are you basing that on? the stupid amounts of pre-washing you have to do? the rusted thread holes? the flimsy paint? I hate feser as much as anyone who knows the real story, but best built? pfft

As for the OP, list your loop components first.

**zlojack** · 10-09-2008, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bojamijams

best build? oh come on man... what are you basing that on? the stupid amounts of pre-washing you have to do? the rusted thread holes? the flimsy paint? I hate feser as much as anyone who knows the real story, but best built? pfft

As for the OP, list your loop components first.

Rusted?

**Gir92** · 10-09-2008, 08:02 AM

I believe he's asking if it will net him any extra PERFORMANCE, not if it will look better or be better built.

**Martinm210** · 10-09-2008, 08:04 AM

Assuming you had an average 10C water/air delta...the difference between an MCR320 and a PA120.3 would be about .6 to 1.5 degrees depending on the fans used. I tested and measured somewhere between 6-14% difference and according to thermochills own testing it was around an 8% differece it does depend on the fan used though. If you had the space for a second MCR, the difference would be 5 degrees.

The difference really depends on your heat load though. If your radiator feels warm to the touch, it's likely running in the 10C delta range. If it's cool to the touch it's probably in the 5C delta range, etc. As you get closer and closer to ambient the difference and gains becomes less and less.

Assuming the 10C delta (400watts of heat and 1350RPM yate loons),

The difference would be about a degree. This would be about equal to changing the fans out from 1350RPM yate loons to 1550RPM yates.

**Gir92** · 10-09-2008, 08:18 AM

But why spend an extra 100+ bucks for a radiator that's only gonna net him 1-2C improvements, if even that?

I love my el cheapo swiftys

**zlojack** · 10-09-2008, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Gir92

But why spend an extra 100+ bucks for a radiator that's only gonna net him 1-2C improvements, if even that?

QFT

**FrOzE** · 10-09-2008, 08:20 AM

Actually my MCR320 is running on the Yate loons D12SL-12 fans.
Would it be a better choice to run it on Scythe S-Flex F?

My set up is only cooling my CPU. Below is my WC setup.

Swiftech GTZ
Swiftech MCR320 Radiator
Swiftech MCP355
XSPC Acrylic Pump Top Reservoir

**Giannis86** · 10-09-2008, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by RealRedRaider

If you want the "Best Built" radiator, then your search starts and ends with the venerable ThermoChill PA Series...

I have a BIGTX 360, PA120.3 and a TFC360 and i almost dare to say that the TFC is about the same quality as the PA (only much better paint job)

only thing is that the PA seems to be giving SLIGHTLY better temps

anyway i would keep the mcr320 and use some higher speed fans (S-Flex ftw)!

**Eddie3dfx** · 10-09-2008, 08:27 AM

How much better is a Feser 320 over a thermochill 320?
Lets say with 88cfm yates.

D5, ek supreme, Feser 320
D5, ek supreme, thermochill 320.

**Martinm210** · 10-09-2008, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by FrOzE

Actually my MCR320 is running on the Yate loons D12SL-12 fans.
Would it be a better choice to run it on Scythe S-Flex F?

My set up is only cooling my CPU. Below is my WC setup.

Swiftech GTZ
Swiftech MCR320 Radiator
Swiftech MCP355
XSPC Acrylic Pump Top Reservoir

Not sure which processor, but assuming a very hot overclocked quad core is only going to produce around 200 watts or so (depends on the processor/overclock/vcore/temperature).

Assuming 200 watts, going for the 1350 D12SL12's is going to roughly follow the gain of going from D12SL12s to D12SM12s or about .7C gain.

However going with a dual core or lower heat processor, assuming 125 watts of heat total, you'd only see maybe .5C gain.

**Gir92** · 10-09-2008, 08:36 AM

As for the pain issue, just buy a swifty rad and repaint it. That's what I did and I'm still at 1/2 - 1/3 the price of the expensive rads.

I do agree that the stock swifty paint is garbage, but I repainted mine and love it.

**kinghong1970** · 10-09-2008, 08:39 AM

but RRR, for what it's intended use, Feser is fine... it's not meant to withstand that much pressure and weight...

and also the MCR is great choice... offers the performance without the bulk... nor the price...

in terms of Feser vs Thermochill, TC better come up and start making their products more available... cus Feser has opened a can of whupass

**Giannis86** · 10-09-2008, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by Eddie3dfx

How much better is a Feser 320 over a thermochill 320?
Lets say with 88cfm yates.

D5, ek supreme, Feser 320
D5, ek supreme, thermochill 320.

actually the Feser is about 1 degree worse than the PA according to some german review.

i was planning to do my own testing on the BIGTX,TFC and PA rads but i keep on getting into problems with my Crystalfontz display for monitoring temps..anyway im not sure if there is any point in that testing though..
My guess would be that at low speed fans PA>TFC>BIGTX and at high speed fans (~1800rpm+ ) BIGTX>PA>TFC

**FrOzE** · 10-09-2008, 08:51 AM

I think for my case, i would be so much better keeping the Swiftech MCR320 n changing to the S-Flex F fans :P

**Repliquant67** · 10-09-2008, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Giannis86

actually the Feser is about 1 degree worse than the PA according to some german review.

i was planning to do my own testing on the BIGTX,TFC and PA rads but i keep on getting into problems with my Crystalfontz display for monitoring temps..anyway im not sure if there is any point in that testing though..
My guess would be that at low speed fans PA>TFC>BIGTX and at high speed fans (~1800rpm+ ) BIGTX>PA>TFC

Depend of the fans you use. PA are better only with very low cfm fans.

**Martinm210** · 10-09-2008, 09:08 AM

That's true. Alot of the earlier reviews that I went back to and tried to understand more about all tested with fans in the 600-900RPM range. This is an area where the PA is strong, but from what I understand in the fan poll we had here, the majority of users actually run fans in the 1350-1550 RPM range.

Unfortunately performance of any radiator now matter how well optimized for low speed fans, drops significantly when you start running fans that slow. Even the MCR320 for example achieves over 3X the performance with 3000RPM fans vs 1000RPM fans, a similar scaling occurs as you further reduce fan speed. It is an option though, string several radiators together and undervolt the snot out of the fans and you can get the same or better performance as one radiator with one strong set of fans. While I've spent enough years in a plywood mill and a machine shop to abuse my ears that I can't hear a 1000RPM fan, I've heard some people say they are too loud. For those folks stringing several radiators together and running ulra low speed fans might be the best way to go. Ultra silence does cost some $$ though..

**Giannis86** · 10-09-2008, 09:16 AM

oops i got it mixed up..just looks at those graphs and the TFC is better than the PA at 7v (800rpm) and at 12V (1300 rpm)...

as about what you said about low speeds fans, the TFC has the same fin density as the PA, meaning that it is also good for low speed fans. The TFC is slightly shorter but the copper makes up for it..
anyway i doubt any of those can beat my BIGTX with push pull configs and S-flex F fans

**NaeKuh** · 10-09-2008, 09:16 AM

u know what i want?

An MCR which is threaded on both sides so you can make one like a sli config on a video card and stack them.

Martin's test showed the air going and and out was only off by like 1C at most. So having 2 rads sandwitched between a fan would give you a very nice package, and also provide scalability.

Im not a fan of hugh rads, the 480GTX did it for me. Id rather have a smaller but thicker rad.

**~~bigslappy~~** · 10-09-2008, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

Im not a fan of hugh rads, the 480GTX did it for me.

BUT I Love my GTX480's with Iwaki RD-30's AND a 1000CFM Blower !

;p

**Repliquant67** · 10-09-2008, 09:25 AM

I saw in an other review that the PA are better with low speed fans ...
I'd like to see a review with push-pull fans feser vs PA vs black ice gtx

**Giannis86** · 10-09-2008, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Repliquant67

I saw in an other review that the PA are better with low speed fans ...
I'd like to see a review with push-pull fans feser vs PA vs black ice gtx

seeing that the GTX has a far higher fin density than the rest it should be a one sided game..however by how much would it win?

hopefully i can fix my crystalfontz issues and then i can do that testing. i was gonna do the testing with Ultra Kazes 3k rpm but i sold them. I do have enough Scythe S-Flex F fans though for push-pull configs so that should be more than enough

**Gir92** · 10-09-2008, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by NaeKuh

u know what i want?

An MCR which is threaded on both sides so you can make one like a sli config on a video card and stack them.

Martin's test showed the air going and and out was only off by like 1C at most. So having 2 rads sandwitched between a fan would give you a very nice package, and also provide scalability.

Im not a fan of hugh rads, the 480GTX did it for me. Id rather have a smaller but thicker rad.

That would be absolutely awesome. I would totally buy 2 more MCR 220s to Swifty Link Interface with my current 2 MCR 220s.

**IanY** · 10-09-2008, 10:49 AM

Hahaha Quad SLI MCR320 lol

Now all Gabe needs to do is sell a SLI radiator interface (TM)

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