Near disaster with an Apogee GTX

[Eddie3dfx]

I like the copper top. The gtx is a gorgeous block with that top.

[hellcamino]

Nothing wrong with PC ICE my friend...the fact that your other copper components didn't get ruin by that alu top on the GTX means your coolant did its job.
But when its DIRECT CONTACT between the alu and the copper on that block, no amount of coolant corrosion inhibition's gonna stop that GC rating through

My chief complaint with the PC ICe is that it gunked my loop, HOWEVER if it hadn't blocked my Apogee GTX that very large hole you can see in the pic would have gone through in a very short time !

[iandh]

I already knew it was just antifreeze in a 2oz bottle ( what a money maker ) but he started telling me how much better it was than any other coolant additive. Gabe in fact stated that it was made in the millions of gallons and was in use for many different cooling applications including race cars....

Well I immediately called BS on that one as I grew up building/working on race cars as a member of a pit crew and for over 20 years now that I can attest to the only additive you are allowed to run in NASCAR is in fact water wetter! Yep you guessed it! The same exact stuff people use in their pc's coolant! I have personally seen this stuff work to fantastic effect in a race car with a 30 degree drop in temps within 5 minutes of pouring it in.

In defense of Gabe, 1) IIRC Swiftech recommends you only use their additive, which is a corrosion inhibitor. 2) They are hardly the only ones sellling repackaged marked up automotive coolant.

Petra's tech does it too, and nobody seems to have a problem with that, including myself.

edit: Oh, and I forgot, water wetter may work at first, but it gradually leaves a nearly uncleanable film inside all of your components. This is bad news for radiators.

15C temp drop from lapping? Yeah right, did you forget to mention that between unlapped and lapped you also changed from using chewing-gum to MX2 as thermal paste?

When you RMA or ask for a replacement it's standard procedure to ship the old one back, some companies will let you ship back the old one after the receive the new one but most go as far as wanting the old one first, it's the price you have to pay to have stuff fixed for free.



Bottom line, I feel for you, really, what happened to you sucks, but don't act like a 13 year old about it

Just for the record, bowing and stepping in my opinion are nothing more than patch jobs (as is lapping I suppose). If he had a really weak mobo, there is a good chance that bowing didn't help one bit without a backplate.

I could understand if they wanted both the base and top back, so that the block couldn't still be used, but all they are doing is replacing the top. What the hell could they possibly want to inspect on a corroded top that couldn't be seen in a picture? What could the OP possibly want with it other than to throw it in the trash? Why make him waste even more time and money paying shipping for the worthless top?

Is Gabe making windchimes out of corroded GTX tops to hang on the back porch of Swiftech?

[IanY]

I am surprised that Swiftech approved the RMA. I don't really like it either, but Swiftech's warranty is predicated upon the use of Swiftech Hydrx ONLY, and not Pentosin, other forms of Valvoline Zerex, Red Line, or anything else. PC Ice is definitely not Hydrx. I don't agree with the whole warranty policy, but its clearly stated in the product literature. Don't agree with it, then don't buy the block.

I did use the aluminum top for about a month a half, with diluted Hydrx, before I switched to the copper top, with nothing but water. My son has the GTX block now and it serves him very well, again with just water.

IMO, its a case of reading before buying. You clearly bought the block and then discovered its quirks after that.

[hellcamino]

IanY that is actually an illegal practice in the US, several auto manufacturers got dinged for that one here. You can't mandate that people only run your re-branded product and not honor your warranty when others are used as long as they are used in the prescribed manner and have the essential components.

Well said Iandh, he must have one hell of a wind chime !

[IanY]

hellcamino,

If you look at DangerDen's web site, they also sell a small/tiny bottle of Zerex Proplyene Glycol aka "Zerex Super Racing" for almost $4 a tiny plastic bottle. I think I can source a whole gallon of that stuff for about $10

Valvoline Zerex Super Racing is pink, and I really don't know how Hydrx got to be green, but I think Hydrx is still Proplyene Glycol.

Pentosin is Ethylene Glycol, and is toxic as can be. I'm sure you knowthat Proplyene Glycol is used in Nascar (and almost all GT car racing) because its a whole lot safer to the driver when it leaks out.

[Martinm210]

Sorry to hear it, I personally wouldn't put anything aluminum in my loops. Even with some very short duration tests with an aluminum Koolance top, I was already starting to see telltale signs of GC.

Plating simply will not stand up to the abrasion of barbs in barb threads, not to mention microscopic cracks and pits that are part of any plating process. Sooner or later an entry point is found and the process begins and works out radially from that entry point. Most of the photos I've seen have originated from the barb threads.

The simple answer is don't buy aluminum products unless you are going to run an all aluminum loop...it's the only thing we can do.

[SiGfever]

From looking at Swiftech's newest offerings these issues will all go away. The newest blocks are damn sexy IMHO.

I will be getting the NB block for my Maximus II MB, great job Gabe.

[hellcamino]

[QUOTE=IanY;3288750Pentosin is Ethylene Glycol, and is toxic as can be. I'm sure you knowthat Proplyene Glycol is used in Nascar (and almost all GT car racing) because its a whole lot safer to the driver when it leaks out.[/QUOTE]


Actually if you do some looking at NASCAR track rules you will find quickly that the use of any type of antifreeze will result in a one race suspension. The reason is simple: antifreeze is slicker than snot on a track and uneccesary to boot, the use of it will invariably end with it on the track and far more wrecks. Several additives are currently allowed though.

Antifreeze is the last worry on any drivers mind as a substance that might get splashed on him/her. I can't think of any time I saw engine coolant splashed on a driver...Burning fuel I have seen though!

[NaeKuh]

well it happens to the best of us.

Koolance bit me in the butt, and i thought i knew what i was doing.

[BreeSpree]

Wow, that sucks. I use the Fuzion V2 and it almost never gives corrosion types of problems. I personally think you should run your loop with straght distilled, then maybe some PT Nuke, and wait. Then add pentosin or Hydrx of you want. I'm just saying in case its not the coolant you should run pure distilled. If you get gunk or goo you will see it right away.

[_G_]

I'm sure you knowthat Proplyene Glycol is used in Nascar (and almost all GT car racing) because its a whole lot safer to the driver when it leaks out.

Actually in most forms of racing that I know of only water is used for coolant
so that leaks dont slick up the track.

[Navanod]

My chief complaint with the PC ICe is that it gunked my loop, HOWEVER if it hadn't blocked my Apogee GTX that very large hole you can see in the pic would have gone through in a very short time !

Find me a coolant or a home made distilled water recipe that wouldn't gunk with that GT block with alu top and I'll agree that PC ICE was the cause of the gunk

I don't see people running distilled recipes blaming their recipes when gunks appeared, but everyone's quick to point fingers at commercial coolants at the first sign of a stain

alright, I'm not gonna comment anymore before this turns ugly, but my take home message is

you can blame the heavens and the earth, but you can't blame others when you didn't do your own homework

[HaloJones]

Mine, bought a new copper top. Ironically I bought the GTX to replace a rig which was using a BeCooling SlitEdge for a Socket A XP1700 which when I took it off looked like this:

[T_Flight]

Oh God. That's awful.

[gabe]

Gabe in fact stated that it was made in the millions of gallons and was in use for many different cooling applications including race cars....

Well I immediately called BS on that one as I grew up building/working on race cars as a member of a pit crew

You are infering that I intentionally mislead you, and this is pure slander. The information I provided you with is based on the information we ourselves received from the company's distributors and supported by the manufacturer's claims here:

http://www.valvoline.com/products/Ze...%20Coolant.pdf

In an attempt to verify your information nonetheless, and based on your recommendation to go check the Nascar rule book, I found out that this document is quite difficult to obtain, as described in the following article: http://www.speedwaymedia.com/Article...08Gearhart.asp

What you are NOT saying here, is that on the day you called Michelle for your RMA, I validated my representations by directing you to the above Valvoline Press Release, which you quickly dismissed as lies from this reputable manufacturer. So by presenting your story without mentionning all the facts, you are demonstrating a clear intent to cause us prejudice despite the fact that we honored our warranty in good faith.

Gabe also insisted that I had been doing something wrong with my Apogee GTX since lapping it dropped my temps....Interesting point there as lapping it dropped my cpu temps at load by 15c!

Such claim demonstrates only one thing: a poor methodology in collecting temperature measurements. There is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[gabe]

Zerex Racing Super Coolant

Corrosion Tests – 10% v/v
ASTM D1384 – all alloys < 0.2 mg/cm2 loss @ steel, brass, cast iron rate of 0.2mg per day
ASTM D4340 – aluminum alloy < 1 mg/cm2/wk @ a rate of 1mg of mass per week

looks if alu melts less then other alloys when soaked in 10% acid

Correct. the stuff was designed to protect aluminum engines. It does 30% better on aluminum alloys than with other metals.

To answer another questions (Zerex is red, Hydrx is green), we use the G93 version; same formulation but it's available in 5 gallon pails as opposed to retail bottles.

[Factotum]

gabe
three weeks I used GTX, MCP655, MCW30, MCW60R, MCR220 and distilled water without сoolant. Lifting the top from GTX I saw the corrosion on the top as described above. Cannot say anything wrong, Swiftech like me, but my GTX now need to throw, it can't be used in the system. Aluminum top on the GTX - it was a very bad idea
I think the fault of steel aluminum channels in the radiator

[HaloJones]

Same boat. Should not have to use Hydrx to avoid galvanic corrosion caused by faulty plating. If the plating lived up to the advertising it wouldn't fail.

[IanY]

Same boat. Should not have to use Hydrx to avoid galvanic corrosion caused by faulty plating. If the plating lived up to the advertising it wouldn't fail.

It doesn't matter what your opinion is. Should, would, could. Its in the product literature. Either follow the instructions or don't buy.

And if you don't follow the instructions, then you bear the risk yourself.

I'm not arguing for Swiftech. I myself choose not to follow the instructions after changing out the tops, but I used diluted Hydrx when the aluminum top was on and it showed nothing, granted it was for a short time. If I were to get corrosion, I would say that its my own doing.

[jarman]

gabe
three weeks I used GTX, MCP655, MCW30, MCW60R, MCR220 and distilled water without сoolant. Lifting the top from GTX I saw the corrosion on the top as described above. Cannot say anything wrong, Swiftech like me, but my GTX now need to throw, it can't be used in the system. Aluminum top on the GTX - it was a very bad idea
I think the fault of steel aluminum channels in the radiator

Why wouldnt you use an inhibitor package??? Thats just asking for trouble.

[Factotum]

Why wouldnt you use an inhibitor package??? Thats just asking for trouble.

aluminum channels in the MCR220 - learned about it when done a hole in the rad too long screw.
I was sure that the radiator is fully copper

[jarman]

should still use 5% antifreeze though if u do that you will almost never need to replace the coolant.

[Factotum]

It's much easier - in the future I do not want to use aluminum in any form in system.

[NaeKuh]

Simplist solution, and by far the least agruement drawing:



Copper Top and end it.