To everyone in the WC section, Please read!

[gillbot]

My stance on it is, I won't recommend something I haven't personally used. I will never recommend an EK because I'm too cheap to run one myself. I will point them to threads that shows others' experiences but I always add my $0.02 about my beloved Apogee GT. I usually recommend the Apogee GT for two reasons:
1) It can be found in the FS/FT section for $25 shipped or less used,
2) I have abused mine and it takes everything I throw at it, so it's a proven performer in my eyes.

It's hard to beat that $ per C performance, though as soon as I get my D-Tek Fuzion v1 mounted and tested, we'll see as the price on those is falling as well.

[Movieman]

My stance on it is, I won't recommend something I haven't personally used. I will never recommend an EK because I'm too cheap to run one myself. I will point them to threads that shows others' experiences but I always add my $0.02 about my beloved Apogee GT. I usually recommend the Apogee GT for two reasons:
1) It can be found in the FS/FT section for $25 shipped or less used,
2) I have abused mine and it takes everything I throw at it, so it's a proven performer in my eyes.

It's hard to beat that $ per C performance, though as soon as I get my D-Tek Fuzion v1 mounted and tested, we'll see as the price on those is falling as well.

Funny one; I bought some WC parts from one of the guys here and I had an option to take one ApogeeGT or a pair of Fuzion v1's..
I had one apogeeGT and didn't want to rape the guy as he was giving me a very fair deal so I passed on the fuzions and took the one apogeeGT
The fuzions look a little prettier and might be 1-2C better but I'm happy and i'll shine all that chrome and make them beauuuuutiful!

[gillbot]

Funny one; I bought some WC parts from one of the guys here and I had an option to take one ApogeeGT or a pair of Fuzion v1's..
I had one apogeeGT and didn't want to rape the guy as he was giving me a very fair deal so I passed on the fuzions and took the one apogeeGT
The fuzions look a little prettier and might be 1-2C better but I'm happy and i'll shine all that chrome and make them beauuuuutiful!

Only reason I got the D-Tek was beacuse of the price. I was actually looking for another Apogee GT and found this Fuzion for less than most of the Apogee GT's I could find FS so I thought i'd try it.

[sheriff_deadeye]

MM thanks for posting this thread. As i stated in other threads, i just finished my first WC build, and all is working great thanks to the great info and help here at XS.

I did go with a few decisions that, based on the very recent atmosphere at XS, would not be considered the 'right' build but it met my requirements and has been running non-stop without issue for 2 months now. Fortunately several members posted positive feedback and one specifically refuted the 'right build' mentality. Overall, my experience has been great here at XS, but i'm glad to see an outright effort to keep it that way.

Finally...the decisions i made were my own, based on hours and hours of reading here at XS. Which means i was able to extract the solid test data, good opinions and good experiences to form my own decisions. Before i started my build, I had no WC knowledge so I made it a point to gain as much understanding as possible.

If you come to XS new to WC and ask "what should i buy; how should i built it?" but you do not have at least a basic understanding of WC, then you are opening the door to a flood of opinions. Also, if you about to embark on your first WC project, then it's not a bad idea to assume you will spend 5% - 20% of your original budget on mistakes. I don't see anything wrong with that assumption...be it the wrong sized clamps, radiator grill, res, or other issues. Sometimes an RMA is not a possibility. It is good to have a goal of keeping fanboyism to a min., but it will always lurk to some degree. Having a solid understanding of the basics and doing your own research so you understand and are not just following blindly, and being willing to make mistakes, will result in a better experience and a better build.

So the Mods will do their best to tackle the problem and monitor the threads, but it's also up to the rest of us to do our homework, ignore some of the noise, and make the build that best suites our requirements. After all, you can' t believe everything you read on the net.

[[XC] Hicks121]

So the Mods will do their best to tackle the problem and monitor the threads, but it's also up to the rest of us to do our homework, ignore some of the noise, and make the build that best suites our requirements. After all, you can' t believe everything you read on the net.

QFT!!

[DarthBeavis]

MM thanks for posting this thread. As i stated in other threads, i just finished my first WC build, and all is working great thanks to the great info and help here at XS.

I did go with a few decisions that, based on the very recent atmosphere at XS, would not be considered the 'right' build but it met my requirements and has been running non-stop without issue for 2 months now. Fortunately several members posted positive feedback and one specifically refuted the 'right build' mentality. Overall, my experience has been great here at XS, but i'm glad to see an outright effort to keep it that way.

Finally...the decisions i made were my own, based on hours and hours of reading here at XS. Which means i was able to extract the solid test data, good opinions and good experiences to form my own decisions. Before i started my build, I had no WC knowledge so I made it a point to gain as much understanding as possible.

If you come to XS new to WC and ask "what should i buy; how should i built it?" but you do not have at least a basic understanding of WC, then you are opening the door to a flood of opinions. Also, if you about to embark on your first WC project, then it's not a bad idea to assume you will spend 5% - 20% of your original budget on mistakes. I don't see anything wrong with that assumption...be it the wrong sized clamps, radiator grill, res, or other issues. Sometimes an RMA is not a possibility. It is good to have a goal of keeping fanboyism to a min., but it will always lurk to some degree. Having a solid understanding of the basics and doing your own research so you understand and are not just following blindly, and being willing to make mistakes, will result in a better experience and a better build.

So the Mods will do their best to tackle the problem and monitor the threads, but it's also up to the rest of us to do our homework, ignore some of the noise, and make the build that best suites our requirements. After all, you can' t believe everything you read on the net.

We should all practice this mantra . . ."There is no right . . .only what is right for you" . . .I too often forget this and do not take into account things like limited means or using what one has . . .

[RickCain]

My stance on it is, I won't recommend something I haven't personally used.

This attitude should be adhered to by everyone. Opinions should be based on experience and not by someone sitting behind a keyboard with an agenda.

I look forward to a much more positive water cooling sub forum.

[BlueAqua]

Another opinion of others opinions.... This is a perfect example of what starts the battles here. The "Greater than thou" attitude...

It's not really about that. It's about raising the standards of XS. Please adhere to the new higher standards.

[Omastar]

Another opinion of others opinions.... This is a perfect example of what starts the battles here. The "Greater than thou" attitude...

What does that have to do with a holier than thou attitude? He was simply pointing out that empirical data holds more water than superfluous personal preference.

[Omastar]

Here is how it starts...

How? Your opinions are just that: yours. It's fine to tell someone you love your CPU block manufactured by Company X, but it's another thing to have blinders on when it comes to objective performance. And what if they don't want to spend a certain amount on the top block? You're responsible to scale it down and examine price to performance if you really want to help them. And, of course, by 'you' I mean 'everyone'.

[Movieman]

This is a good thread for everyone to read only, not to discuss and post about your opinion, your experience, who's to blame, etc.

David, please consider closing this thread.

I understand but there's a lot that needs to come out and get off of everyones chest.

As far as I know, Dave supersedes you in moderator land, so it's his choice. Fingers do not need to be pointed here. Dave was simply posting an example of what the bad blood in this forum has brought about.

Actually as far as I am concerned I don't "outrank" Ashraf..We work together for the best for the site.
I'm a supermod, he's a mod. The only difference is that I can mod in all sections vs the regular mods get assigned sections.
The key is that we work together for the benefit of XS.
We may sometimes disagree on the best way to go but the one thing we know about each other is that the other guys motives are good.

Im sure ill get banned but its worth it

your such a in hypocrit dude... and its pretty clear the private message being discussed had you in mind...

im sorry... guess ill see you all in 09

I said it loud and clear and then even told you in PM but you didn't listen.
banned till 1-21-09

[DarthBeavis]

[QUOTE=Movieman;3305796]Actually as far as I am concerned I don't "outrank" Ashraf..We work together for the best for the site.
I'm a supermod, he's a mod. The only difference is that I can mod in all sections vs the regular mods get assigned sections.
The key is that we work together for the benefit of XS.
We may sometimes disagree on the best way to go but the one thing we know about each other is that the other guys motives are good.
QUOTE]

Is your name Friday? Do you carry a gun


***plays Dragnet theme music in the backround

[Movieman]

Gentlemen;
I just removed some posts.
Some just because they quoted others that needed to be removed so don't read anything into it that isn't there.

The whole point of this thread orginally was to say that things have to change here.
That people have to use a little common sense and reason in their responses and also that anyone that works for any company and then slyly badmouths another company in the attempt to increase sales is a POS in my opinion and will be removed.
Anyone even thought to be doing so will be removed.
We will also deal with one another with respect and courtesy.
You don't have to agree with everyone but don't attack the man, attack his arguement. I have been saying that one line over and over for almost a year yet sometimes I think people close their ears.
Do I make myself clear on these points?
Lets take this place back to what it used to be.
A place where friends could come together and discuss water cooling and learn from one another.
Leave the frigging ego's home and enter here as friends or simply stay out of this section. It is that simple.
[QUOTE=DarthBeavis;3305840]

Actually as far as I am concerned I don't "outrank" Ashraf..We work together for the best for the site.
I'm a supermod, he's a mod. The only difference is that I can mod in all sections vs the regular mods get assigned sections.
The key is that we work together for the benefit of XS.
We may sometimes disagree on the best way to go but the one thing we know about each other is that the other guys motives are good.
QUOTE]

Is your name Friday? Do you carry a gun


***plays Dragnet theme music in the backround

Cute, but I am not that complex.
I look right down the middle and try to calm excitable people and issues.
When I can't do it nicely I do it the hard way.
I hate, I repeat, I hate having to ban anyone but sometimes it is all that a person will listen to.
Now as to you, come january in las Vegas you and I will sit down at a table with a couple bottles of jack and have a long talk.. and there will be a third person there also.
it will be very interesting..
Now if it gets too interesting I'm 5'10" and 220 and brought up on the streets.
I am 56 but I still got a few good minutes left in me.
We will talk and when the talk is over the three of us will stand up as friends.

[Waterlogged]

Gentlemen;
I just removed some posts.
Some just because they quoted others that needed to be removed so don't read anything into it that isn't there.

The whole point of this thread orginally was to say that things have to change here.
That people have to use a little common sense and reason in their responses and also that anyone that works for any company and then slyly badmouths another company in the attempt to increase sales is a POS in my opinion and will be removed.
Anyone even thought to be doing so will be removed.
We will also deal with one another with respect and courtesy.
You don't have to agree with everyone but don't attack the man, attack his arguement. I have been saying that one line over and over for almost a year yet sometimes I think people close their ears.
Do I make myself clear on these points?
Lets take this place back to what it used to be.
A place where friends could come together and discuss water cooling and learn from one another.
Leave the frigging ego's home and enter here as friends or simply stay out of this section. It is that simple.


Cute, but I am not that complex.
I look right down the middle and try to calm excitable people and issues.
When I can't do it nicely I do it the hard way.
I hate, I repeat, I hate having to ban anyone but sometimes it is all that a person will listen to.
Now as to you, come january in las Vegas you and I will sit down at a table with a couple bottles of jack and have a long talk.. and there will be a third person there also.
it will be very interesting..
Now if it gets too interesting I'm 5'10" and 220 and brought up on the streets.
I am 56 but I still got a few good minutes left in me.
We will talk and when the talk is over the three of us will stand up as friends.

Odd, I got an infraction for doing just that


Make it Jager, you'll get further

I've been staying out of this until now because I happen to agree with Ashraf on this one and see very little good coming out of ppl being able to post, even though I think he totally blew it on NeaKuh's Koolance topic. I had a totally legit request for Dean at the end of that topic that likely was never seen.
This should have been posted and locked as an edict for all to see and reflect upon.

[Movieman]

Odd, I got an infraction for doing just that


Make it Jager, you'll get further

I've been staying out of this until now because I happen to agree with Ashraf on this one and see very little good coming out of ppl being able to post, even though I think he totally blew it on NeaKuh's Koolance topic. I had a totally legit request for Dean at the end of that topic that likely was never seen.
This should have been posted and locked as an edict for all to see and reflect upon.

You got an infraction for attacking a person my friend.
Lets be honest with each other ok?
Vapor gave you an infraction for saying this to a member:
initialised, What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points and may what ever God you pray to have mercy on your soul.
Now that was May so i'll assume you forgot but God's truth, we do not go around looking to start trouble with the membership.
I've spent the better part of 15 hours over the last 3 days dealing with 3 different issues between people.
Don't you think that I'd rather be spending that time at MY interest?
The WCG team?
Think about this ok?
I'm not here to make your life miserable.
I'm here because I enjoy the place and the people here.

[Waterlogged]

You got an infraction for attacking a person my friend.
Lets be honest with each other ok?
Vapor gave you an infraction for saying this to a member:
initialised, What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points and may what ever God you pray to have mercy on your soul.
Now that was May so i'll assume you forgot but God's truth, we do not go around looking to start trouble with the membership.
I've spent the better part of 15 hours over the last 3 days dealing with 3 different issues between people.
Don't you think that I'd rather be spending that time at MY interest?
The WCG team?
Think about this ok?
I'm not here to make your life miserable.
I'm here because I enjoy the place and the people here.

I did not fight it then or say anything until now because I knew the admin team here wouldn't understand but, I was attacking what was said....how is that attacking the man? The key word in what I said there was "said" but if you guys choose not to see it that way, what the hell can I do about it?.....Nothing, that's what.

[Ashraf]

I think he totally blew it on NeaKuh's Koolance topic.

Don't worry, there was a reason why it was removed. Vapor, NaeKuh, and other members agreed with the decision.

[Waterlogged]

Don't worry, there was a reason why it was removed. Vapor, NaeKuh, and other members agreed with the decision.

A simple locking would have sufficed...no?

[DarthBeavis]

Now as to you, come january in las Vegas you and I will sit down at a table with a couple bottles of jack and have a long talk.. and there will be a third person there also.
it will be very interesting..
Now if it gets too interesting I'm 5'10" and 220 and brought up on the streets.
I am 56 but I still got a few good minutes left in me.
We will talk and when the talk is over the three of us will stand up as friends.

Not sure if my sponsor is going to send me to CES . . .still trying to figure out a way to go . . .

as far a getting interesting . . .I am a lover not a fighter . . .sorta I do test for my 2nd DD Black Belt decided in Nov Jager sounds good . . .

[systemviper]

I understand but there's a lot that needs to come out and get off of everyones chest.

I totally agree, If this was just something to read, then it's just a lecture and not a lot will come from it.

But if it is to really change, then we need to talk about it and own it, take responsibility for it and be part of the solution.

The discussion will actually bring out a lot of the frustration, and help to build some new bonds and heal some friendships gone bad. You don't know how many responses i have written, posted, then deleted just because i felt i was being to arrogant or not giving someone the respect that I want myself.

I say post your opinions, within reason, get it off your chest, and lets all move forward with MM and XS to keep it the most experienced source of info on the net