Thermalright Unveils True Copper Ultra-120 Extreme Coolers

[DragoonXX]

The Ultima doesn't have bent 'wingtips' though.

Also, for anyone who doesn't get it yet: Copper is simply better than aluminum for heatsink applications. The problem is that marketing has brainwashed you - the only reason why aluminum is used is because it's cheaper and copper is really not worth the small performance increase.

you cant forget that aluminum is also much lighter, the other main reason why companies use aluminum

[[XC] Synthetickiller]

I want to see it weighed. 3kg? pssh, no. Whats the difference? Copper fins? that's not 2/3 of the mass of the heatsink. Did they add extra copper just to get to this weight? I would not a trust a mobo to hold up 6.6 lbs + the weigh of a fan on the cpu. There would be more contact on the lower half of the cpu just due to the weight shift unless you had some industrial quality brace.

Its pretty and will probably do a very good job of cooling and looking pretty, but unless my mobo is horizontal, forget it.

[Baron_Davis]

so so awesome...im getting one

[Baron_Davis]

you cant forget that aluminum is also much lighter, the other main reason why companies use aluminum

the main reason they use aluminum is cause steel is cheaper and they cant profit as much from it. Whatever gets them more $$$ for no intelligent reason is their motto...

ps. im not being a hypocrite for wanting the TRUE copper...yes it's expensive and "flashy" but I coulda gone for the Ninja copper if i was a drone. The reason I'm 99% getting one is because the performance you will get from it with a nice push/pull setup using high powered fans should be amazing. Remember, since copper's thermal conductivity is much MUCH higher than aluminum's, you need really good fans + air flow in your case to cool this baby down and get rid of all the heat it stores.

[ryboto]

you need really good fans + air flow in your case to cool this baby down and get rid of all the heat it stores.

That's crazy talk. The EXACT same amount of heat that was produced when you were using an aluminum heatsink will still be produced, not more, not less. Assuming you're using the same CPU at the same voltage/clock. The only thing that's changing now is that your conductive surface conducts heat much much faster. In both cases(Al/Cu), the limiting factor for heat transfer is the convective heat transfer resistance, since heat transfer to the air is dependent on the convective heat transfer coefficient, which is directly related to the velocity of the air over the surface you are cooling. So, in either situation, high speed fans will help. You wont need higher speed fans just because it's all copper.

[Baron_Davis]

That's crazy talk. The EXACT same amount of heat that was produced when you were using an aluminum heatsink will still be produced, not more, not less. Assuming you're using the same CPU at the same voltage/clock. The only thing that's changing now is that your conductive surface conducts heat much much faster. In both cases(Al/Cu), the limiting factor for heat transfer is the convective heat transfer resistance, since heat transfer to the air is dependent on the convective heat transfer coefficient, which is directly related to the velocity of the air over the surface you are cooling. So, in either situation, high speed fans will help. You wont need higher speed fans just because it's all copper.

Buddy, copper has the 3rd highest thermal conductivity on Earth, behind diamond and silver. That means that whatever heat was transferred to the aluminum was dependent on the aluminum's ability to conduct heat energy. Now, since copper's conductivity is HIGHER, much MUCH higher (401 vs 237 W/(m·K)). That means that at any given time, it will be transferring and thus storing more heat energy than the aluminum version. Soooo that means that in order for the heatsink to not become overpowered by its own thermal conductivity, it needs to GET RID of the heat it conducts at a faster pace as well. Hence, the reason for more powerful fans.

[ryboto]

Buddy, copper has the 3rd highest thermal conductivity on Earth, behind diamond and silver. That means that whatever heat was transferred to the aluminum was dependent on the aluminum's ability to conduct heat energy. Now, since copper's conductivity is HIGHER, much MUCH higher (401 vs 237 W/(m·K)). That means that at any given time, it will be transferring and thus storing more heat energy than the aluminum version. Soooo that means that in order for the heatsink to not become overpowered by its own thermal conductivity, it needs to GET RID of the heat it conducts at a faster pace as well. Hence, the reason for more powerful fans.

Take a heat transfer course and what I was saying might make more sense to you. The rate of heat transfer to the air is dependent on two things, a thermal gradient and the convective heat transfer coefficient. The thermal gradient is dependent on the temperature of the surface, and bulk air temperature. Now, the rate of heat transfer directly increases with increasing temperature delta, Q = h A (T-Ta). The hotter surface aids in cooling already. With the same heat source, same convection type(forced/unforced), copper will cool the surface better.

[Baron_Davis]

That is purely theoretical. You forget that the heat transfer that occurs between the CPU and the copper heatsink is greater than that of the heatsink and the air. Although copper's heat capacity is a lot bigger than aluminum's, eventually, if the fans aren't getting rid of the heat at a greater rate than the heatsink is absorbing it, then the copper will start getting hotter and hotter and become useless.

Think of it like this:

1st hour: a lot of heat transferred to heatsink, not so much going out of the case
2nd hour: ambient case temps start increasing, copper heatsink starts struggling trying to stay cool
3rd hour: high ambient case temp has overpowered the heatsink, heatsink is now useless

That's why just looking at thermal conductivity doesn't tell the whole story. In a lab, yeah it does, but in real life it does not.

[ryboto]

That is purely theoretical. You forget that the heat transfer that occurs between the CPU and the copper heatsink is greater than that of the heatsink and the air. Although copper's heat capacity is a lot bigger than aluminum's, eventually, if the fans aren't getting rid of the heat at a greater rate than the heatsink is absorbing it, then the copper will start getting hotter and hotter and become useless.

Think of it like this:

1st hour: a lot of heat transferred to heatsink, not so much going out of the case
2nd hour: ambient case temps start increasing, copper heatsink starts struggling trying to stay cool
3rd hour: high ambient case temp has overpowered the heatsink, heatsink is now useless

That's why just looking at thermal conductivity doesn't tell the whole story. In a lab, yeah it does, but in real life it does not.

No, it wont become hotter and hotter, it will, like any heat exhanger, reach a steady state temperature given a consistent heat load. What you're proposing should happen to ANY heatsink. I'm not just looking at the thermal conductivity, I'm considering the convective conductivity which will increase. If a lab simulates "real life", how is it not accurate? Just stop misinforming people. A Copper heatsink does not need higher airflow than an aluminum one. If your logic even was applicable, then this would be true for aluminum heatsinks as well.

[Baron_Davis]

No, it wont become hotter and hotter, it will, like any heat exhanger, reach a steady state temperature given a consistent heat load. What you're proposing should happen to ANY heatsink. I'm not just looking at the thermal conductivity, I'm considering the convective conductivity which will increase. If a lab simulates "real life", how is it not accurate? Just stop misinforming people. A Copper heatsink does not need higher airflow than an aluminum one. If your logic even was applicable, then this would be true for aluminum heatsinks as well.

An aluminum heatsink doesn't conduct as much, so its fans can remove the heat from the case without becoming overburdened. So this gradual temperature increase would take a lot longer. On a copper heatsink like the TRUE, which is designed extremely well, this gradual increase in temperature would take a lot less time, and while for the first hour or so, it would cool rather well, the ambient temp would start to "choke", and things would go down hill from there.

You CANNOT expect a copper heatsink to cool well if you aren't removing that excess heat from the case. That's all I'm saying.

And for ^^^ to happen, you need better cooling. If you already have good cooling, this is obviously not an issue. Just don't waste money on a $100 heatsink only to slap on some weak ass 800rpm "silent" fans on it.

[ryboto]

An aluminum heatsink doesn't conduct as much, so its fans can remove the heat from the case without becoming overburdened. So this gradual temperature increase would take a lot longer. On a copper heatsink like the TRUE, which is designed extremely well, this gradual increase in temperature would take a lot less time, and while for the first hour or so, it would cool rather well, the ambient temp would start to "choke", and things would go down hill from there.

You CANNOT expect a copper heatsink to cool well if you aren't removing that excess heat from the case. That's all I'm saying.

And for ^^^ to happen, you need better cooling. If you already have good cooling, this is obviously not an issue. Just don't waste money on a $100 heatsink only to slap on some weak ass 800rpm "silent" fans on it.

Theres no "EXCESS HEAT"! it's the same heat source...Copper doesn't generate heat you know...it just conducts it faster, REMOVING heat faster under the same conditions. A copper heastink with an 800rpm fan will perform better than an aluminum heatsink with the same fan. It might be a marginal improvement, but it will conduct heat faster. If an aluminum heatsink doesn't conduct as much heat, its fins would be cooler than a copper version, and in that sense, you're going to have a hotter CPU.

Why will the ambient temp "Choke"? any decent fans are basically removing the entire case volume of air every minute, so the ambient air is going to be close to ambient room temp, and on top of that, you'll reach a steady state. Things aren't going to generate more heat because you change your material of conduction.

[itznfb]

the difference was a few months ago when asked about this at computex, thermalright stated there would be no copper edition as it was too heavy on the motherboards to be practical for production, and it raised saftey concerns.


Edit: yes it does look like a ultima 90 copper edition judging by the width

ultima 90? why? because the picture is at an angle?
it looks the same as the true on their site
http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_pa...rue-main-1.jpg

[eva2000]

woah sweet... 3kg of copper is kinda cheap for $99 ?

[Calmatory]

Source? They aren't releasing it.

[vengance_01]

Nice. I will keep my eye on this, but I already have a Sunbeam Core Contact.

[Baron_Davis]

Theres no "EXCESS HEAT"! it's the same heat source...Copper doesn't generate heat you know...it just conducts it faster, REMOVING heat faster under the same conditions. A copper heastink with an 800rpm fan will perform better than an aluminum heatsink with the same fan. It might be a marginal improvement, but it will conduct heat faster. If an aluminum heatsink doesn't conduct as much heat, its fins would be cooler than a copper version, and in that sense, you're going to have a hotter CPU.

Why will the ambient temp "Choke"? any decent fans are basically removing the entire case volume of air every minute, so the ambient air is going to be close to ambient room temp, and on top of that, you'll reach a steady state. Things aren't going to generate more heat because you change your material of conduction.

First off, yeah a copper heatsink will be removing more heat but at the cost of ambient temperature rising IF YOU DON'T HAVE GOOD AIR FLOW.

Second, if you don't have intelligent placement of good fans, your ambient temp will indeed choke. Getting good air flow in most case is very hard, and I think you're being pretty idealistic in thinking that a case worth of air is getting moved every minute. Grills kill air flow. Poor case design does the same, and most cases (even $300 ones) don't have close to the perfect air flow you seem to think exists. Again, consumer PC's are not a lab. We don't live in a vacuum, figuratively speaking. I think you're applying absolute scientific laws in a chaotic environment without thinking outside the box and realizing that there are a few important factors that kill this naive thinking.

[ryboto]

First off, yeah a copper heatsink will be removing more heat but at the cost of ambient temperature rising IF YOU DON'T HAVE GOOD AIR FLOW.

Those scientific laws apply to the real world. Case air flow has NOTHING to do with the fact that a copper heat sink will perform better than an aluminum heat sink. Here's the skinny. An aluminum heatsink transfers heat slowly, so, compared to a copper version, it's bulk temperature is lower. To compensate, and increase heat transfer from the aluminum version, you can only increase the airflow, to increase the convective heat transfer. Because copper is warmer(due to greater heat capacity and conductivity), the temperature gradient for convective heat transfer is higher, so heat transfer to the air is greater.

Given the same airflow, the copper heatsink will outperform the aluminum. If you put the two versions in the same system, the copper will provide better cooling. This might be marginal though, considering the heatpipes on most coolers are nickel plated copper, so the only new copper here is the fins.


Either way you look at it, you're going to have to deal with the same amount of heat if your system isn't changing. You use an Aluminum heatsink, the rate of heat transfer is lower, so the rate that you heat the ambient case air is lower, but your CPU is hotter. Use a copper heatsink, rate of heat transfer to the air is higher, ambient might rise, but CPU temperature decreases.

[RejZoR]

Lets wait for coolers made out of diamond. 2 to 4 times the copper thermal conductivity. Don't ask about price... :P

[ryboto]

Lets wait for coolers made out of diamond. 2 to 4 times the copper thermal conductivity. Don't ask about price... :P

just make a diamond microprocessor, thermal limits on that would mean we probably wouldn't need a heatsink.

[Biker]

I'm going to buy 10 and then sell it back when Copper reaches $999/kg

[@@@@]

it could happen they could use synthetic Diamonds but your right the price would be unbearable

[RejZoR]

Synthetic of course. Getting natural diamond of that size (or even 1/4 of it) is pretty much impossible.

[PrometheusCon]

Hell... I'll buy one just cause it's so shiny. I won't even use it. Just keep it in a acrylic box and have a small 5 watt bulb inside to make it GLOW

[Baron_Davis]

Hell... I'll buy one just cause it's so shiny. I won't even use it. Just keep it in a acrylic box and have a small 5 watt bulb inside to make it GLOW

lol I still can't get over the fact that it's 3kg...imagine dropping it on your mobo...you'd prolly take half of it out in one blow.

[demonkevy666]

stock True nickel plated says it weights 790G grams

there is no way copper would make this weigh 3KG

only a Stainless steel one would weigh that much.

I'm betting this would be about 1,000-1500 grams Max.

I like that that carbon idea instead of silicon.

why isn't anyone using it to make dies because of it's meltting point of

The melting point of graphite is 3550ºC (6332ºF)

The melting point of Silicon is 1410ºC