Real Temp - New temp program for Intel Core processors

[skinnee]

That button is downright ugly!

I agree with loonym, keep it the same or add an "i".

[Fungus]

Why have the button at all, why not just display all the info, with a slightly bigger dialog box.

[gymenii]

Square button looks better

[unclewebb]

Square button looks better

Good, cause I don't know how to program round buttons in Visual C++.

That button is downright ugly!

I've tried to remain neutral but I tend to agree with you and loonym. I prefer clean and simple even if it does take a user a month to figure it out. Maybe I could build in a pop up that goes off after a month of use if you haven't clicked on that button yet.

Why have the button at all, why not just display all the info, with a slightly bigger dialog box.

I could do that but most of the info hiding under that button is pretty much useless anyhow. When I'm running the crap out of my E8400, trying to get a good 1M SuperPi time, I could care a less about CPUID, VID or APIC ID. I want to know temps and MHz. It's all interesting stuff that you look at once or twice but most of it can be ignored. I like the small and clean Mini Mode and don't care to look at too much extra beyond the important stuff, MHz and temps.

RejZoR has version 2.74 with his idea of what that button should look like. The next release of RealTemp will go back to a simple button with maybe an i added at some point in the future. If I get bored in September then maybe I'll buy a G15 and modify RT to use it.

[BeastNotro]

The one best thing i love about Realtemp is that you can see what the MAX the cores go to and always know what your limits are with your CPU when Benching ... i don't recall any other program that does this.

So if your benching and go for a smoke and come back in and thinking. damn how high did it go..... no worries as Realtemp shows it there for that benchmark your doing.

Sure all other programs may ahve a logging system and so dies realtemp, but heck i rather see it right there . that minute .. as for minimum though ... hmm thats not really needed to see as you can see what your temps are anyways at bootup and when idling.

If i had some extra cash right now i send some your away UncleWebb.

Also if you want .. i can be the for the G15 .. send what ya think will work... tear apart coretemp to see what they using.

[unclewebb]

At the moment, I'm just waiting to see what Intel has to say on Thursday about TjMax, etc. Depending on how that goes, maybe I'll start working on project G15 sooner than September. I've had a couple of requests for it so I've been thinking about it but haven't felt like working too hard on RealTemp this summer.

On a Quad core while gaming, are your temps even important? My Q6600 barely breaks a sweat when gaming and core temperature is not an issue. What max temp does RealTemp report during what game?

[loonym]

Maybe I could build in a pop up that goes off after a month of use if you haven't clicked on that button yet.

[skinnee]

Maybe I could build in a pop up that goes off after a month of use if you haven't clicked on that button yet.

Now that is Usability at its finest!

edit: damn, loonym beat me to punch.

[unclewebb]

I'll try to keep 'er subtle for you guys!

[RejZoR]

Well, if you ask me i'd ditch all the other info, slightly enlarge that area and just display FSB x multi and final frequency + full CPU name and remove the button altogether.
But thats just me...

EDIT:
Just a hint, your competition just updated TjMax for my E4300. It's now showing correct temperature by default (TjMax 85)...

[unclewebb]

Just a hint, your competition just updated TjMax for my E4300. It's now showing correct temperature by default (TjMax 85)...

Now that's funny! For those that haven't followed this as long as I have, when the E4300 first came out CoreTemp used TjMax=85C and the user community cried and twisted his arm so he jumped on the 100C bandwagon in his next release. This had everyone believing that the E4300 liked to run hot even though reducing on chip cache makes a CPU run cooler. I have no idea why he'd switch back now.

Over on the SpeedFan forum, they practically vote on what TjMax should be. Who ever twists the programmers arm the hardest wins!

The Intel IDF can't come soon enough to clean up this mess that Intel created by not properly releasing full disclosure of these sensors on day 1.

RejZoR, I'll save some of your ideas for a B version of RealTemp that I mentioned a while ago. Once the kids are finished summer vacation, my RealTemp productivity will go up.

[RejZoR]

Well i don't get it why Intel kept TjMax such a secret. I mean it's not a blueprint of their cores, just a temperature reading for THEIR OWN CPU's. It's ridiculous if you look at the situation really...

[ChrisZ]

Square button looks better

Yup. +1

[JohnZS]

Are intel finally going to disclose the TjMax value today?

[BeastNotro]

At the moment, I'm just waiting to see what Intel has to say on Thursday about TjMax, etc. Depending on how that goes, maybe I'll start working on project G15 sooner than September. I've had a couple of requests for it so I've been thinking about it but haven't felt like working too hard on RealTemp this summer.

On a Quad core while gaming, are your temps even important? My Q6600 barely breaks a sweat when gaming and core temperature is not an issue. What max temp does RealTemp report during what game?

Oh mine hardly reaches 40C-43C max on core 0 and of course the rest are lower by about 2-3C.. in games.

Just it is a cool feature (that coretemp has thusfar) for the LCD for those who have such a keyboard as then ppl with such a keyboard can keep an eye on things ... just cool is all and i like it..... ... so whenever your ready to try it out .. let me know and i will test for you.

For those who want to see what it looks like on the LCD look at my above post on this page.

[unclewebb]

BeastNotro: That's the problem with a Quad. Most games don't take advantage of all the processing power that's available so the cores run pretty cool in most games. I think the world could survive without G15 keyboard support from RealTemp but I'll probably do it anyhow because it will be interesting learning how to program it. My wife is heading back to work so I'll be able to get a big keyboard into the house without having to listen to, "WHAT'S THAT?" I kind of like my present Logitech so don't have that burning desire for an upgrade. Maybe Ol'Baditude will take it off my hands when I'm done with it, unless I like it.

I thought the TjMax conference was scheduled for Thursday at 1:40. I'll see if I can find a link to that. Every computer website will be rushing to break the news so I'm not too worried about not hearing about it.

Edit: Here's the official class:
TMTS001

[Ol'Baditude]

Hehe, yea, I probably could.

Interesting thing last night webb. As per our PM's, it's almost uncanny that I did exactly what you mentioned b4 you replied. Great minds think alike I guess. Regardless, my temperatures are a much more believable 28,28,29,29 degC @ 26 Ambient. Considering that I am at a relatively low overclock using low voltage and under a high end single block water loop, that's about right in my book.

A few observations though:
1. the distance to TJMax numbers seem to update with a higher frequency than the Temp numbers. Is this normal? Actually the temp numbers barely move after the idle calibration. I did an activity test and results were 6,7,7,8. Interesting.

2. My Delta temp from idle to load on small fft's was only 6 deg. From 29 to 35. This is definitely an oddity for me (not impossible in any way mind you), It's just that normally I'm looking at 10-15 delta from idle to load. My idle temperatures went up substantially after the calibration, but the load temps are stellar. What are your thoughts on this?

[unclewebb]

What MHz and what does CPU-Z report for core voltage when running Prime95 small FFTs? I'll assume that you're using the multi core version of Prime and all 4 cores are maxed out in Task Manager. If you keep the volts down then the heat output from your CPU will also be down.

You need to do a fair comparison. With the same settings run small FFTs for the same length of time and write down your min/max temps with and without calibration. You can even run two instances of RealTemp for this test to compare calibrated to uncalibrated.

Prime95 v25.6 32 bit
Prime95 v25.6 64 bit

[Ol'Baditude]

I've done a fair comparison, Prime defaults to 4 instances no matter what. All cores are maxed everytime I fire up Prime.

BIOS Settings were exactly the same from pre to post calibration.

In my Vdroop master (oops X48T) BIOS, Vcore is set to 1.225v for 3.2GHz. Everest CPUID reports 1.184v Idle/ 1.176v Load

My pre-calibration results are all documented over in the q6600 overclocking thread, I think you're subscribed to that one yes? My screenshots of post calibration Prime testing are at home, I'll post them here after work.

But in the meantime they can compared here

32,28,28,28 IDLE and 42, 40, 39,37 LOAD ----> Pre Calibration 30 DegC. Ambient. --> Roughly 10 Deg Delta

28,28,29,29 IDLE and 35, 36, 38,39 LOAD ----> Post Calibration 26 DegC Ambient. --> Roughly 8 Deg Delta for the most part but was as low as 6.

I was more or less wondering what you had observed for delta in your testing, not so much asking if your software was borked.

Good point about running two instances of RT though, I'll do that.

What are your thoughts about point #1 in my previous post?

Cheers,

[JohnZS]

I thought the TjMax conference was scheduled for Thursday at 1:40. I'll see if I can find a link to that. Every computer website will be rushing to break the news so I'm not too worried about not hearing about it.

Edit: Here's the official class:
TMTS001

Ah ok, I thought it was today and reported tomorrow. I guess we will all be watching in anticipation tomorrow.

By the way, was the data I sent you any good?

Keep up the good work and hopefully IDF is good kudos to you tomorrow
John

[gtj]

Uncleweb, I've got a small request. Could you compile a 64bit version of the exe? The 32bit exe works fine on the full version of 64bit WIndows OSs but it won't work on the 64bit skinny OSs like Windows PE because they'll only run native apps. I.E. 32bit PE will only run 32bit apps and 64bit PE will only run 64bit apps.

Not a big deal if you can't but I've been doing all of my tuning and testing in WinPE and have been without temp monitoring.

thanks

[unclewebb]

gtj: My old compiler doesn't support 64bit so native 64bit for RealTemp is a ways off in the future, if it happens.

JohnZS: Your data was good but your sensors are bad. They are very inconsistent from one core to the other. I'm sort of in a waiting mode until Intel releases some documentation for these sensors. Then I can have a look at some of the data I've been gathering over the years. T - 24 hours

Ol'Baditude: When testing you need to keep as many variables as consistent as possible. When you get home tonight test again with two versions of RealTemp running. What are you using to measure your air temperature near your computer? I pointed my IR gun at my digital house hold thermostat the other day when it was about 32C outside and there was a 2 degree difference in readings. The typical difference is 1C higher than the air temp near my computer. All these temp readings that we take as being 100% accurate because they are coming from a digital source seem to be far from that. Other users that have calibrated RealTemp on a Q6600 with air and water found that a good water set up has idle temps about 4C above their water temperature after it has idled for a while.

I think I understand point 1) in your previous post. If sensors read too low and you have to use a positive calibration factor then there will be some points where the Distance to TjMax reading will change by 1 but the reported temperature will not change. The DTS info coming from the chip might move from 20 to 60 or a range of 40 but if you calibrate it up to 25 at idle then the reported temperature is only going to move from 25 to 60. 40 different values from the digital thermal sensors have to be reduced or converted into 35 unique reported temperatures with my model. Write two columns of numbers and you'll understand the overlap that must occur.

Calibrating RealTemp is my band aid solution to less than perfect, non-linear sensors. Maybe when Intel comes clean tomorrow they will introduce some magical formula that everyone can use and agree on. If they reverse engineered RealTemp then I might be a little suspicious. Flattered but suspicious!

If there is a more accurate way to get temps out of these processors then I'm all for it but any new model has to be backed up with real world testing that I hope Intel has done plenty of.

[CompuTronix]

I'm with you, unc. I wish we could attend IDF. I'm on pins and needles to know what Intel discloses.

[gtj]

gtj: My old compiler doesn't support 64bit so native 64bit for RealTemp is a ways off in the future, if it happens.

I could compile it for you.

[unclewebb]

I could compile it for you.

Then I'd have to give away my top secret code! I'll think about it, especially after tomorrow.