Cascade 6 (mobile assault unit)

[gosmeyer]

Please tell us bazk! What do you do in your spare time(you know for fun) LOL

[bazx]

well i slept all day today much to the annoyance to all around me

[eva2000]

wow been ages since i read this thread and you've done ALOT of work there

great stuff mate!

[bazx]

wow been ages since i read this thread and you've done ALOT of work there

great stuff mate!

eva i have been very lazy today i sould have been benching

i will post up some images of the unit tomorrow for sure with some results

[mytekcontrols]

bazx -- You mentioned earlier that you were having problems getting the final stage to work with R14, but apparently have had some success with the R1150. Ever think about doing a mixture of both the R14 and R1150, and perhaps installing a subcooler? It works great on autocascades with R14 and Argon, and I don't see why it wouldn't work with what you are doing. In fact if you want to avoid the cost of R14, try ethylene and methane (with a subcooler). Should be similar to the R14/Argon mix, but just not as cold.

[bazx]

bazx -- You mentioned earlier that you were having problems getting the final stage to work with R14, but apparently have had some success with the R1150. Ever think about doing a mixture of both the R14 and R1150, and perhaps installing a subcooler? It works great on autocascades with R14 and Argon, and I don't see why it wouldn't work with what you are doing. In fact if you want to avoid the cost of R14, try ethylene and methane (with a subcooler). Should be similar to the R14/Argon mix, but just not as cold.

yes i was thinking of trying r14 and then adding 1150 bit at a time to see if that got the stuff moving altho i am not sure if i would want to get into blends at this stage of my development but wont rule it out as i am keen to succeed with this gas

could you explain your subcooler a bit more for me mytekcontrols so i could understand better

i have been sidetracked with one of august123 txv mods that he used with r14

i like the idea of mounting a txv on the back of the evap and his r14 mod seems to work

[mytekcontrols]

I've attached a diagram that should make it a little clearer as to how the Sub-Cooler works.

Basically it steals a fraction of the condensate passing through it, and evaporates this in the suction side counter-flow to the discharge. Since it is essentially isolated from the return path of the evaporator, it is also isolated from any returning heat. Thus it'll tend to maintain a colder temperature then the evaporator (especially under load), and help to subcool the liquid passing through it. When subcooled, there is a greater tendency for absorption of any non-condensibles passing through as well (Argon or Methane). When this condensate consisting of subcooled refrigerant and absorbed gas is later evaporated, it'll do so at a temperature somewhere between the two refrigerants boiling points. So in other words; Subcooled R14 with absorbed Argon gas will boil colder then R14 alone.

The same should tend to hold true for a combination of R1150 and R14 in your system, assuming that you can obtain temperatures below the boiling point of the R1150 within the Sub-Cooler. On the other hand this would be a mute point if you could already obtain temperatures and pressure to fully condense the R14 in the first place.

I hope that answers your question.

[bazx]

I've attached a diagram that should make it a little clearer as to how the Sub-Cooler works.

Basically it steals a fraction of the condensate passing through it, and evaporates this in the suction side counter-flow to the discharge. Since it is essentially isolated from the return path of the evaporator, it is also isolated from any returning heat. Thus it'll tend to maintain a colder temperature then the evaporator (especially under load), and help to subcool the liquid passing through it. When subcooled, there is a greater tendency for absorption of any non-condensibles passing through as well (Argon or Methane). When this condensate consisting of subcooled refrigerant and absorbed gas is later evaporated, it'll do so at a temperature somewhere between the two refrigerants boiling points. So in other words; Subcooled R14 with absorbed Argon gas will boil colder then R14 alone.

The same should tend to hold true for a combination of R1150 and R14 in your system, assuming that you can obtain temperatures below the boiling point of the R1150 within the Sub-Cooler. On the other hand this would be a mute point if you could already obtain temperatures and pressure to fully condense the R14 in the first place.

I hope that answers your question.

thanks for all the work you have done mytec

i will have a think on it all


bench some today had the unit running for 3 hours without any problems
held -107 solid right thro

E8600 @1.88v
RampageX
ballistic ram

[mytekcontrols]

thanks for all the work you have done mytec
i will have a think on it all

No prob, just thought it might be of some use.

Still loving your unit. Wow what fantastic craftmanship has gone into it! But it sure is a big monster of a unit (I think I just saw my lights dim --- did you just turn it on? ).

[bazx]

No prob, just thought it might be of some use.

Still loving your unit. Wow what fantastic craftmanship has gone into it! But it sure is a big monster of a unit (I think I just saw my lights dim --- did you just turn it on? ).

it is a beast for sure and i must say it holds load like nothing i have built befor

but this one was suposed to be coolder than -107 so still work to be done

i had planed cascade 7 to be an auto cascade unit so i will need lots of help with that

and you are one of the guys i will be pm ing

[n00b 0f l337]

Whats your third stage pressure running at with r1150?

[bazx]

Whats your third stage pressure running at with r1150?

11/12 bar

edit third stage is now 7bar after comp swop to 12000btu and a better vac job

[n00b 0f l337]

Really?
Ah forgot the 2nd stage is R23 not R1150, that's some really nice load, even though you must be running in vacuum
I cant wait to see a Bazx Autocascade, you do seem to have most of the refrigerants now and sitting. I'm rather jealous

[Nosfer@tu]

Im Sorry I dont read the entire thread again

I have read it a few times already

But why did she die bazx ?

Btw next time you speak with barron and busta please give them my regards and say Tits UP from me

Hope to visit them one day and bench again

[bazx]

Im Sorry I dont read the entire thread again

I have read it a few times already

But why did she die bazx ?

Btw next time you speak with barron and busta please give them my regards and say Tits UP from me

Hope to visit them one day and bench again

hehe she is alive i have just been benching with the unit for a while
until i get the strength to work with r14 again

i will be working on the side panels soon

i have all the fans now as i need to get the panels on and make it quieter it is very loud

i am glad you enjoyed working with my team mates they are very dedicated and make me proud

[Clemmaster]

I've attached a diagram that should make it a little clearer as to how the Sub-Cooler works.

Basically it steals a fraction of the condensate passing through it, and evaporates this in the suction side counter-flow to the discharge. Since it is essentially isolated from the return path of the evaporator, it is also isolated from any returning heat. Thus it'll tend to maintain a colder temperature then the evaporator (especially under load), and help to subcool the liquid passing through it. When subcooled, there is a greater tendency for absorption of any non-condensibles passing through as well (Argon or Methane). When this condensate consisting of subcooled refrigerant and absorbed gas is later evaporated, it'll do so at a temperature somewhere between the two refrigerants boiling points. So in other words; Subcooled R14 with absorbed Argon gas will boil colder then R14 alone.

The same should tend to hold true for a combination of R1150 and R14 in your system, assuming that you can obtain temperatures below the boiling point of the R1150 within the Sub-Cooler. On the other hand this would be a mute point if you could already obtain temperatures and pressure to fully condense the R14 in the first place.

I hope that answers your question.

Hi mytek, I was just wondering if you already had an idea on this question :

Do you really get lower temperature at same cooling capacity with a subcooler than with the gas itself evaporating at lower pressure, assuming in both case you've got the same compressor (of course) and assuming it is a rotary one (it can be much harder to run at very high pressure ratio with recip and their biger (in most cases I've worked on) percent clearance)?

Baz wants to get a decent capacity prior to go as low as possible and I see subcooler more as a way to reach lower temperature with a given gas/blend than a way to get a lower temperature and get the same capacity in the end, but I may be wrong I don't have your knowledge about this so I'm just asking

[Aphex_Tom_9]

so clean and pro looking, great to see it doing its job

[Nosfer@tu]

hehe she is alive i have just been benching with the unit for a while
until i get the strength to work with r14 again

i will be working on the side panels soon

i have all the fans now as i need to get the panels on and make it quieter it is very loud

i am glad you enjoyed working with my team mates they are very dedicated and make me proud

Yes they are Good guys for sure

If I read correct. You reuse the old compressors from the other projects to make this unit...

If so you should sell them instead. I mean the entire cascade because your work needs it own class

You make it look so BEAUTIFULL

[mytekcontrols]

Hi mytek, I was just wondering if you already had an idea on this question :

Do you really get lower temperature at same cooling capacity with a subcooler than with the gas itself evaporating at lower pressure, assuming in both case you've got the same compressor (of course) and assuming it is a rotary one (it can be much harder to run at very high pressure ratio with recip and their biger (in most cases I've worked on) percent clearance)?

Baz wants to get a decent capacity prior to go as low as possible and I see subcooler more as a way to reach lower temperature with a given gas/blend than a way to get a lower temperature and get the same capacity in the end, but I may be wrong I don't have your knowledge about this so I'm just asking

Very good questions. Now let me see if I have some good answers .

Do you really get lower temperature at same cooling capacity with a subcooler...
This would probably be a NO in most situations. Since the subcooler as I showed it, requires about 1/3 of the final flow to be diverted back to feed it. Probably resulting in a net loss in capacity. Although there could be exceptions, depending upon improvement in the quality of the final condensate. For instance; if the pressure, temperature, boiling point relationship without the subcooler were less than ideal for the refrigerants involved, the portion of refrigerant blend that was condensed could also be less than ideal. By adding additional cooling via the subcooler, theoretically the improvement achieved in condensing gas into liquid, could out weigh the 1/3 diversion in final flow.

...I see subcooler more as a way to reach lower temperature with a given gas/blend than a way to get a lower temperature and get the same capacity in the end...
Yes the subcooler's main purpose is to achieve lower temperatures with gas blends, and as I pointed out, usually requires a sacrifice in capacity to bring this about. This would be especially true for gas blends that have a component with a boiling point far below the systems ability to condense it (Argon).

[n00b 0f l337]

When you have such a huge compressor being used though, and your really just using that to run into lower suction pressures, it might massively outweigh it to have a subcooler, run a higher suction pressure, and get lower temps.

[mytekcontrols]

When you have such a huge compressor being used though, and your really just using that to run into lower suction pressures, it might massively outweigh it to have a subcooler, run a higher suction pressure, and get lower temps.

True. And it would also benefit the compressor, having better cooling, due to the increased mass flow (e.g.; higher suction pressure).

It is a difficult thing to accurately predict, but I think it would be well worth a try. Especially since a subcooler is very easily constructed, and really doesn't need to be very big in order to do its work.

[[XC] gomeler]

With the size of compressors he's using on that build, I'd say it'd be completely worth it. Perhaps R507 on 1st stage, R1150 on 2nd stage, R1150/Argon on the 3rd stage with the sub-cooler or retry R14 with R1150 on the 2nd stage.

[bazx]

lads just a quick update on the 3rd stage i have swapped out the 3rd stage comp it is now a 12000btu still on 1150 for now but pressures are much better HP 7bar 5 inch idle 1 ish loaded

[n00b 0f l337]

And temps?

[ryba]

thanks for all the work you have done mytec

i will have a think on it all


bench some today had the unit running for 3 hours without any problems
held -107 solid right thro

E8600 @1.88v
RampageX
ballistic ram

Sorry bro, but good dual stage can make this temp with this cpu