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Thread: More Larrabee August 12th

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    Xtreme Owner Charles Wirth's Avatar
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    More Larrabee August 12th

    FIRST DETAILS ON A FUTURE INTEL DESIGN
    CODENAMED ‘LARRABEE’

    Aug. 4, 2008

    Intel Corporation is presenting a paper at the SIGGRAPH 2008 industry conference in Los Angeles on Aug. 12 that describes features and capabilities of its first-ever forthcoming “many-core” blueprint or architecture codenamed “Larrabee.”

    Details unveiled in the SIGGRAPH paper include a new approach to the software rendering 3-D pipeline, a many-core (many processor engines in a product) programming model and performance analysis for several applications.

    The first product based on Larrabee will target the personal computer graphics market and is expected in 2009 or 2010. Larrabee will be the industry’s first many-core x86 Intel architecture, meaning it will be based on an array of many processors. The individual processors are similar to the Intel processors that power the Internet and the laptops, PCs and servers that access and network to it.

    Larrabee is expected to kick start an industry-wide effort to create and optimize software for the dozens, hundreds and thousands of cores expected to power future computers. Intel has a number of internal teams, projects and software-related efforts underway to speed the transition, but the tera-scale research program has been the single largest investment in Intel’s technology research and has partnered with more than 400 universities, DARPA and companies such as Microsoft and HP to move the industry in this direction.

    Over time, the consistency of Intel architecture and thus developer freedom afforded by the Larrabee architecture will bring about massive innovation in many areas and market segments. For example, while current games keep getting more and more realistic, they do so within a rigid and limited framework. Working directly with some of the world’s top 3-D graphics experts, Larrabee will give developers of games and APIs (Application Programming Interface) a blank canvas onto which they can innovate like never before.
    Initial product implementations of the Larrabee architecture will target discrete graphics applications, support DirectX and OpenGL, and run existing games and programs. Additionally, a broad potential range of highly parallel applications including scientific and engineering software will benefit from the Larrabee native C/C++ programming model.
    Additional details of the Larrabee architecture discussed in this paper include:

    The Larrabee architecture has a pipeline derived from the dual-issue Intel Pentium® processor, which uses a short execution pipeline with a fully coherent cache structure. The Larrabee architecture provides significant modern enhancements such as a wide vector processing unit (VPU), multi-threading, 64-bit extensions and sophisticated pre-fetching. This will enable a massive increase in available computational power combined with the familiarity and ease of programming of the Intel architecture.
    Larrabee also includes a select few fixed function logic blocks to support graphics and other applications. These units are carefully chosen to balance strong performance per watt, yet contribute to the flexibility and programmability of the architecture.
    A coherent on-die 2nd level cache allows efficient inter-processor communication and high-bandwidth local data to be access by CPU cores, making the writing of software programs simpler.
    The Larrabee native programming model supports a variety of highly parallel applications, including those that use irregular data structures. This enables development of graphics APIs, rapid innovation of new graphics algorithms, and true general purpose computation on the graphics processor with established PC software development tools.
    Larrabee features task scheduling which is performed entirely with software, rather than in fixed function logic. Therefore rendering pipelines and other complex software systems can adjust their resource scheduling based each workload’s unique computing demand.
    The Larrabee architecture supports four execution threads per core with separate register sets per thread. This allows the use of a simple efficient in-order pipeline, but retains many of the latency-hiding benefits of more complex out-of-order pipelines when running highly parallel applications.
    The Larrabee architecture uses a 1024 bits-wide, bi-directional ring network (i.e., 512 bits in each direction) to allow agents to communicate with each other in low latency manner resulting in super fast communication between cores.
    The Larrabee architecture fully supports IEEE standards for single and double precision floating-point arithmetic. Support for these standards is a pre-requisite for many types of tasks including financial applications.

    The paper’s reference details: Seiler, L., Carmean D., Sprangle, E., Forsyth, T., Abrash, M., Dubey, P., Junkins, S., Lake, A., Sugerman, J., Cavin, R., Espasa, R., Grochowski, E., Juan, T., Hanrahan, P., 2008. “Larrabee: A Many-Core x86 Architecture for Visual Computing,” ACM Transactions on Graphics, 27, 3, 2008.
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    Looks like August 12th is tuning out to be quite an eventful day.
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    sounds like Intel "might" outperform NV and AMD at this game...what I don't like is the perspective of a hardware monopoly, but OK this is all pure speculation atm...new high-end graphics cards with multi-core X86 on board can only be good news for consumers.
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    sounds interesting, im wondering how the current software will work with that

    also will it do openCL or sse to get the c/c++ to run
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    Last edited by Logos; 08-04-2008 at 03:40 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanadu View Post
    Looks like August 12th is tuning out to be quite an eventful day.
    x2

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    If nVidia call their flops "whoop ass", what do you call this

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    interesting

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    August = Also launch date for 4870X2

    This should be interesting :p

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    the tera-scale research program has been the single largest investment in Intel’s technology research and has partnered with more than 400 universities, DARPA and companies such as Microsoft and HP to move the industry in this direction.


    unfortunately i havent heard anything about this yet, but it sure sounds nice!

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    I'm just curious what ATI/AMD(DAAMIT) and Nvidia will come up with to counter this, will they join? or do something different...
    seems like we will be going back to something like Blue-Ray and HDDVD wars again


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    I have absolutely no clue on how it will perform...
    I personally think it is going to suck ..., but who knows.

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    Over time, the consistency of Intel architecture and thus developer freedom afforded by the Larrabee architecture will bring about massive innovation in many areas and market segments.
    What a load of marketing BS by Intel. Talking about future freedoms for a product that isn't even out in the market yet and may fall flat on it's face. What do you think Fugger?
    Last edited by freeloader; 08-04-2008 at 07:17 AM.

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    Yeah, I did participate today in Larrabee phone conference/briefing, pretty interesting stuff.
    I´ll bet that it will also find it´s way to many cheaper super computers.


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    Xtreme Owner Charles Wirth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeloader View Post
    What a load of marketing BS by Intel. Talking about a future freedoms for a product that isn't even out in the market yet and may fall flay on it's face. What do you think Fugger?
    Actually the possiblities are endless with the cores being x86, drop in more cores load a driver and the OS can use them in different ways. Similar to an SBC but uses the PCIE as a backplane.

    Coding to x86 is not asking too much from programmers.

    1.7x gains in performance per year is expected and that may be a tough schedule to keep.

    Nvidia has proven that gpgpu is the way of the future.
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    Nvidia has just backed up the fact that multi threading is the way of the future.

    Larrabee will suck in nowadays apps(threaded for 2-8 general purpose cores, not for 64 vector-heavy cores.). Make it calculate SuperPI, eh?

    Software rendering, raytracing and object based physics modelling will be very effective on Larrabee.

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    Xtreme Owner Charles Wirth's Avatar
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    I have another document where Intel mentions hundred and thousands of cores, the pdf anadtech used only had exampls up to 64 cores and states (not an actual gpu).
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUGGER View Post

    Nvidia has proven that gpgpu is the way of the future.
    +1

    We all know that gpus are faster than cpus when it comes to graphics physics rendering and running some programs too. Well Intel is full of surprises, am still waiting to see how their larrabee(sounds like a couple of cpus packed together to do the job of a gpu thur dedicated programs) will measure up with Nvidia and AMD´s gpu.
    Last edited by Shocker003; 08-04-2008 at 08:02 AM.


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    Better article (than Anand) here:

    http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2327044,00.asp

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    Interesting. Although if it will succeed, not sure.

    I mean, we had a few years back two other compagnies claiming they would be 'the new' brands but we hardly hear anything from them...

    Something with Chrome and another brand, not sure and cant be bothered to look it up either. Im curious, although Im not sure if it's going to work out like that easy. If I understand it well game programmers got to add/re-program games to run on this? Curious how that's going to work out, in the end Physix is worth all too although it was all hyped up before and at its release.

    Im curious how this will work out, maybe Intel is going to make a platform like Spider too. Would be funny though. At least nVidia has to come with something good because if Larrabee and AMD's GPU's are performing equal or better than nVidia for an equal or better price, people with Intel systems would be more likely to get an Intel 'GPU' and AMD users an AMD GPU.

    But before this happens Intel's project has to succeed really well and most (newer) games need to support Intel's 'GPU', otherwise we'll see the same failure cascade as what happened with Physix.
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    Too far away to get excited about. Do like the concept of making a mini supercomputer out of these. A board with 4 PCIe x16 slots would do nicely

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    Paper:

    http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=1360612.1360617

    According to the paper most C/C++ can be recompiled to new Larrabee instructions with big gains. They also say current GPGPU apps can be restructured, which I take to mean CUDA/Brook and the like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rammsteiner View Post
    Interesting. Although if it will succeed, not sure.

    I mean, we had a few years back two other compagnies claiming they would be 'the new' brands but we hardly hear anything from them...

    Something with Chrome and another brand, not sure and cant be bothered to look it up either.
    Not exactly on the same scale as Intel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rammsteiner View Post
    If I understand it well game programmers got to add/re-program games to run on this? Curious how that's going to work out, in the end Physix is worth all too although it was all hyped up before and at its release.
    No, it supports DX/OpenGL. They have the option to bypass that and do all sorts of other interesting things which the talented ones will be quick to take advantage of.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rammsteiner View Post
    But before this happens Intel's project has to succeed really well and most (newer) games need to support Intel's 'GPU', otherwise we'll see the same failure cascade as what happened with Physix.
    As said it supports current rendering modes but unlike current architectures it can do so much more, with standard high-level languages.
    Last edited by bowman; 08-04-2008 at 08:29 AM.

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    Isn't August 12th the same day that nvidia announce their financial results? If nvidia's results for the quarter turn out to worse than expected, (and with their chipset business rumored to be in high distress, some are predicting a rough road ahead) then Intel choosing this day for their announcement on the Larrabee architecture could have a significant impact on the gpu market. August 12th is definately shaping up to be a very interesting day on many levels.

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    Intel is really trying to steal the GPGPU game away from ATI and Nvidia with this. I actually hope GPGPU continues on strong because there are computing advantages with traditional GPU as well. I'd like to think these technologies can coexist but that's just not the case. As good as Intel's new trick sounds, it's success will rely upon ALL of us enthusiasts and regular users dumping their GPUs for one of these.

    PS: This idea would work great in an AMD Torrenza platform! Maybe AMD can jack some of these ideas for both Fusion and Torrenza (if we ever see it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rammsteiner View Post
    But before this happens Intel's project has to succeed really well and most (newer) games need to support Intel's 'GPU',
    There is virtually nothing special newer games need to do to support Larrabee. Intel just needs to make sure their directX driver works right.

    If it does, the game couldn't care less about what lives below that API. There might be OTHER ways to interact with Larrabee, but that's optional.

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