Just what we need is the government further telling us what we can and cant do. That is the last thing the world needs.
No thanks. I would prefer the market to do that.
Just what we need is the government further telling us what we can and cant do. That is the last thing the world needs.
No thanks. I would prefer the market to do that.
Originally Posted by alacheesu
Putting too much faith in the market, or letting the economy tell you what to do, eh?
If you rather wait until the price of gas quadruples again as it did from 1999 to 2007, the economy will crumble as we know it. Unless we completely conquer the Arab nations, we'll be at the mercy of the market (the World Bank Organization). Should we just keep on driving those SUV's until the gas prices rise to like $16 per gallon? Then when we finally decide that it's too much money, the gas prices eventually drive the food and energy costs way past what's affordable for the lower class. I do not think we have started to see the real effects of the oil prices driving the prices of everything else just yet (we will see that it's definitely not "ordinary" inflation).
Sometimes, we need the law to tell us how to be "sane" before it's too late!
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do you have any idea how things work? you wanna blame anybody for the price of gas? blame the federal reserve. there is no shortage of anything. but yet the prices continue to climb. why? because there is more money available but not more goods and services for that money to "break even with". so prices go up. get used to the fact that the game is rigged.
you know there is one fact about the fed that i will never understand adn why people are ok with going along with it. lets pretend there is no money in existence. the federal reserve is created and prints a hundred dollars. so now there is 100.00 dollars in existence. everybody knows the fed doesnt do this for free, they charge interest. we'll say 3 percent on that hundred dollars. whoever takes that hundred dollars at 3 percent interest WILL NEVER be able to pay that debt back. why? because there is only 100.00 dollars in existence and once you take the loan you cant pay back the debt with money that doesnt exist. if somebody has more to add to this id love to hear.
A hundred dollars is much more because of the multiplier effect. That 100 is used to pay other people who put it in banks who then loan money on that 100 to people who pay the money to other people who do the same and so on and so on.
The fed if anything has saved our butts. My only criticism is that they should have acted sooner by cutting rates and not over the prolonged period which it took them. The problem now is NOT the money supply, it is the fact that banks have liquidity problems because of the credit crisis/mortgage crisis and are unwilling to lend even to credit worthy customers.
The other criticism I would have is that either they or the treasury should have imposed regulations that would have prohibited loans that could not pass very basic underwriting criteria. That is being resolved now by forcing banks who originate loans to keep them on their books. Previously, you could resell the loan which would then be packaged as a mortgage backed security and there would be no trace of it on your balance sheet and you would have no liability if the loan went south. That's why the banks were so lax with underwriting standards - because they knew the loans would be resold, gone and forgotten.
Let's get back to solar and this "breakthrough"
Maybe I might still be aboveground when it makes it to the market.
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The XS WCG team needs your support.
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Come join us,get that warm fuzzy feeling that you've done something good for mankind.
thats a good explaination but you are leaving out one fact. the fed prints ALL of the money. so my point in a nutshell is that no matter what society will never get out of debt. because you cannot repay a debt with physical cash that DOES not exist. i know money goes through a complicated tree of hands and through avenues and what not.
and i have to ask how does the fed save our butts when all they are doing is forcibly stealing from all of us(by devaluing the currency)? my grandpa has about 10 million dollars. not all in cash but alot of it is. now ive seen estimates that the fed has printed 4 trillion dollars in the last three years alone to "save our butts" and devalue the currency 10 percent. so if that true then my grandpa who has 10 million now has 9 million because the value is 10 percent less. thats stealing. i cant print counterfeit now why should the fed?
Our moderator has determined this to be off topic (which it is) so we can't pursue it here.
Thats the biggest pile of BS ever.
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I was just thinking to myself, Dont solar panals last a matter of years? My mate has one on his roof, as he works alot, and isn't home using loads of power, he is currently making more money than he pays for electricity, not just breaking even. Therefore it will have payed for itself in only a few years.
When I sayed payed for itself, I mean what he payed for it, including his monitoring system, and all installation costs and having it setup to put electricity back in the grid. Not the manufaction cost which is a fraction of this.
Edit: The more solar panals we buy, the cheaper they are to produce, and the more companies will invest in the technology, making them more efficient and cheaper to purchase, should every one house have one, we would be a far greener planet.
It takes about 5-6 years here to break even. And the panels will last atleast 25 years under guarantie.
But the more power than they produce is utter BS. I would really want to see some edvidence behind that. And it would most likely be just as good as the cigerattes dont cause cancer!
Crunching for Comrades and the Common good of the People.
Humans are utterly stupid and self greedy without regulation. So yes, we need more goverment regulation to change our behaviour.
Crunching for Comrades and the Common good of the People.
I partially disagree. Yes many humans are utterly stupid and greedy but the idea is to have social structures in place to limit such activity. Why have regulation when you can just use domestication? Though this point is off topic. Since they have failed to address the more important issue of efficiency which is the primary weakness of solar power.
Fast computers breed slow, lazy programmers
The price of reliability is the pursuit of the utmost simplicity. It is a price which the very rich find most hard to pay.
http://www.lighterra.com/papers/modernmicroprocessors/
Modern Ram, makes an old overclocker miss BH-5 and the fun it was
Exactly what I was getting at. If they need more power to manufacture than they produce, you'd never break even.
I think we have decent rebates on alternitive energy here, we do on solar anyway.
Remember it took a law to get seat belts into all cars.
and people still refuse to use em.
Wow. This thread sure got popular.
I'd like to address a few key points (imo) on this thread:
1) Solar panels cost more to produce than they put out in their entire lifetime. And it's a "well known fact". Is it now? Any evidence to support this claim?
2) As Dave said, even if pebble bed reactors are much safe, why risk radiation poisoning when you don't have to?
3) We don't need the government to tell us what to do. We are smart enough to think for ourselves (otherwise we wouldn't be here and have our custom built computers), but Average Joe Drives-A-V8 doesn't. He needs to be taught, regulated and monitored until he can think for himself. It is in my belief that people should not have certain rights (such as the right to vote) until they prove that they are worthy of those rights by going through a series of tests (mainly logic tests).
4) While solar panels may not be enough for everyone around the world to power all their needs (consider future electric cars as well), it is a good start. While I do believe that a planet-wide electrical grid where every home has solar panels and gives the extra energy to the grid and the ones that don't have enough can pay more for the extra they need would be sufficient (it would also be a small way of balancing wealth throughout the world by a bit as north american Joe will pay for some of his electricity while Habib from Somalia will actually be payed for the electricity his solar panels are providing) .... we could install wind, hydro and geothermal plants wherever possible to ensure a little extra if we should need it. (Boy, that was a long sentence!
I wouldn't want the entire world's power grid to be based on solar panels. A nuclear winter would hurt us then much harder.
5) When thinking of solar panels, don't think of just powering your homes. Think of powering everything. Cars, cell phones.... everything. If enough money is invested into this technology we would see some really amazing things we can't even imagine now. Consider a thin strip of solar cells that you can attach to any surface like you would a post-it that can then wirelessly power any devices nearby. Now consider that that strip can be folded to fit into your wallet and unfolded to fit the roof of your car. Now consider that if you really are a petrol head, nobody would bother you from driving your big V8 down the road when 99% of the population is green. Because your carbon footprint just doesn't matter anymore.
Generalizations are, in general, wrong.
this is even more important than the news suggest!
it doesnt only affect solar engery, it can be used overall to create hydrogen eficiently and means we can use hydrogen as the new energy carrier in future!
now we just need to find a eficient way to store the hydrogen, and then the cycle coses, eficient hydrogen production, eficient storage, eficient usage (fusion cell)
really nice...!
Already done 3 years ago.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0907102549.htm
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Awesome. Once again, this topic is about efficiently storing solar energy. With an abundant supply of fuel cells, that would do tremendous wonders in reducing our insane dependency on gasoline. Almost everything we have (farming, transporatation, mining, etc..) comes from the energy provided by gasoline.
I guess we just need to keep at it with faith in technology. Or should I say, wisdom? Like the Bible saying that Wisdom is the Principal thing, huh? LOL...
I mean, more efficient solar photovoltaic cells, more efficient means of rotating solar mirror panels boiling water for central energy, more efficient storage into fuel or fusion cells or some other rechargeable batteries for powering everything in the home (let's say one HUGE fuel cell next to the central AC that serves as "auxiliary" power supply), etc... etc... We could set up a huge solar power plant somewhere on a sunny beach and just direct all that sunlight into a controlled furnace in the water, and then generate electricity from the rising steam. Talk about endless supply!
sonofahb, talking about the Federal Reserve is probably best done elsewhere, IMHO. I do not think this thread can handle opening a whole new can of worms here about the Reserve Bank and Congress being supposed to domestically regulate and issue money without owing the banks anything (as it used to be before the Civil War, and still a part of the Bill of the Rights amendment). Perhaps it's more of a global issue, but should we have such a cynical approach as suggested in your post? If those rich bankers want to let the world destroy itself first, then those bankers can be sure of their own destruction in their newly created "hell" surrounding them on all sides (6-9 billion starving homeless people wanting to strip them naked)! Man, that kind of life would suck like hell. I think the government kind of knows better and wants to encourage technology/education for the sake of peace and prosperity rather than unscrupulous exploitation of Capitalism that can only fall before the knees of those bankers. Heck, most of the government is made up of those bankers in the first place. Does those bankers want their own kids to live in a world that knows how to maintain goodwill and peaceful cooperation, or in a world that is set on its path towards a fervent fight for food and oil? In short words, do they want the world to turn into a nuclear hell for their own kids, or not?
A good way to look at money is that it is an universal "agreement" among all. If we're all educated and intelligent, we'll all spend money wisely on what we know to be the best for our futures, therefore, there lies the constructiveness of the whole "money" concept. As long as we're smart, we're in control of the corporations, or Capitalism, for better, not for worse. Even lending and borrowing is a form of agreement in the first place. That way, we are not so easily swayed by the concept that "money is the root of all evil."
Man, I got sidetracked here, offtopic! Sorry moderator, I'll stop now!
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Wait, this "Major Discovery" by MIT is EXACTLY the experiment I did in my Chemistry class two semesters ago. We achieved about 20% efficiency when using the solar electricity to split the hydrogen and oxygen atoms and then recombine them. My professor has a machine rigged at his home giving him some power day and night. The experiment was something the school has been doing for the last 3 years and it was just a community college. WTF MIT?
I just checked and I still have my handout on the lab. WTF MIT?
So you made...
Quote: The new catalyst consists of cobalt metal, phosphate and an electrode, placed in water.
The new catalyst works at room temperature, in neutral pH water. ???
The specific composition and process have not been revealed. Well not to my knowledge. Please correct me if im wrong.
So how is it... EXACTLY?
This should probably go in its own thread, but since it is closely related, here is a technique that will break down water using just sunlight.
Excerpt:
"We have copied nature, taking the elements and mechanisms found in plant life that have evolved over 3 billion years and recreated one of those processes in the laboratory," Professor Spiccia said.
"A manganese cluster is central to a plant's ability to use water, carbon dioxide and sunlight to make carbohydrates and oxygen. Man-made mimics of this cluster were developed by Professor Charles Dismukes some time ago, and we've taken it a step further, harnessing the ability of these molecules to convert water into its component elements, oxygen and hydrogen," Professor Spiccia said.
"The breakthrough came when we coated a proton conductor, called Nafion, onto an anode to form a polymer membrane just a few micrometres thick, which acts as a host for the manganese clusters."
"Normally insoluble in water, when we bound the catalyst within the pores of the Nafion membrane, it was stabilised against decomposition and, importantly, water could reach the catalyst where it was oxidised on exposure to light."
This process of "oxidizing" water generates protons and electrons, which can be converted into hydrogen gas instead of carbohydrates as in plants.
"Whilst man has been able to split water into hydrogen and oxygen for years, we have been able to do the same thing for the first time using just sunlight, an electrical potential of 1.2 volts and the very chemical that nature has selected for this purpose," Professor Spiccia said
Testing revealed the catalyst assembly was still active after three days of continuous use, producing oxygen and hydrogen gas in the presence of water, an electrical potential and visible light.
You can do it with copper rods, you should look up the browns gas generators that people are attaching to the intake manifold of their cars to get better fuel mileage.
Using surfactants may increase the gas generation at lower voltages though...
All along the watchtower the watchmen watch the eternal return.
funny how he suggest my topic doesnt belong here and then in the same paragraph comments on my posts. lol.
the military has been working on ways to "humanely" deal with large crowds of rioting people for at least a decade now. thats why the arseholes in charge dont give a damn about us. and they arent worried about pissing off the masses when they have sonic microwave deflectors that can control thousands of people from one single unit.
Rich people aren't rich without poor people being poor. If poor people don't work, rich people don't make money. Having to microwave us means we're not working. Never going to happen. End of discussion. Talk about solar panels now.
Generalizations are, in general, wrong.
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