Real Temp - New temp program for Intel Core processors

[Xello]

If you're water cooled then we need to compare RealTemp to your water temp. That helps explain why your core temps drop so quickly back to normal.

Ok, how do i do that

I'm afraid i don't have any temp measuring devices at home

[WoZZeR999]

The best way to do that would be to open everything up, underclock and undervolt your computer for a night, kick the fans to 100% and then your water should be very close to the ambient temp.

[Xello]

Do you know how accurate your temperature reading for your northbridge is? If the northbridge temperature dropped but the cores didn't drop then it makes you wonder if the core sensors are stuck.

Well, i assumed it was bang on just as i did with my core temps up until now, but now i wonder. Can the NB sensor get stuck aswell? Also i'm not sure if it did actually drop, it may actually be sitting at 35c idle today as it's quite a cool day, and while it has been 39c idle most days this week it's sitting on 39c right now during prime blend test.

The best way to do that would be to open everything up, underclock and undervolt your computer for a night, kick the fans to 100% and then your water should be very close to the ambient temp.

But i don't have a thermometer or anything in the house for ambient temp I guess this is all turning out to be more trouble than it's probably worth, right?

Why don't Intel just use actual temperature sensors instead of this DTS count-back-from-TJmax nonsense!

[unclewebb]

It's not that the NB sensor gets stuck, just that there's no guarantee of its accuracy. When calibrating, you need some temperature number that you can depend on to be reasonably accurate. When you start poking around with an IR thermometer you soon learn that not everything is as it seems. Give me a minute and I'll try to come up with some calibration factors to get your temps in the ball park.

[Xello]

It's not that the NB sensor gets stuck, just that there's no guarantee of its accuracy. When calibrating, you need some temperature number that you can depend on to be reasonably accurate. When you start poking around with an IR thermometer you soon learn that not everything is as it seems. Give me a minute and I'll try to come up with some calibration factors to get your temps in the ball park.

Alright, i'm just wondering how you're going to figure the values out, i mean how can we know what my cpu is actually at? Or are you going to make some educated guesses

I noticed in the BIOS when i go to the screen with all the fan/temp data the CPU says 35c, which is odd as why would the cpu be at 35 at the bios screen but 32 or lower in windows. The 'system temperature' value in the bios screen was at 36, and the NB was at 35.

[unclewebb]

As I said, unless you know how accurate all of those temp numbers are in the bios then that data is meaningless. When you are in the bios, the CPU is not using the power saving modes that it does when it is in Windows so once again comparing bios temps to Windows idle temps is another meaningless comparison.

Because you can't provide me with any reliable temp data, we'll have to rely on a good educated guess. I'm still thinking! I'm presently downloading temperature data for Scotland and area. Just kidding.

[WoZZeR999]

Alright, i'm just wondering how you're going to figure the values out, i mean how can we know what my cpu is actually at? Or are you going to make some educated guesses

I noticed in the BIOS when i go to the screen with all the fan/temp data the CPU says 35c, which is odd as why would the cpu be at 35 at the bios screen but 32 or lower in windows. The 'system temperature' value in the bios screen was at 36, and the NB was at 35.

The bios actually does run hotter. It keeps cpu cycles running and does not use speedstep or C1E. Windows also uses a lot of wait statements (that 99% cpu usage in taskman that says idle w/e), while the bios does not.

[unclewebb]

OK, here's my best guess based on the data you've provided and my experience with looking at these numbers.

Try using calibration factors of

0.5 0.5 0.0 2.5

Edit: or maybe a little higher on core3

0.5 0.5 0.0 2.7

Run another quick Prime small FFTs test and show us the numbers with some idle time and some time at full load.

A Quad consists of two dual cores. Core0/core1 should have similar load temps and core2/core3 should have similar load temps. The first pair of cores is typically a couple of degrees hotter at full load.

At idle, all 4 cores should be very similar. Ignore core2 at idle since it is stuck but even it will be pretty close now.

The numbers should look better and I truly believe that they are closer to the true core temperatures but without more data it's only a semi-educated guess.

Here's how my Q6600 looks when running Prime small FFTs while looking good in Mini-Mode. No stability issues during the last 13 hours of testing of version 2.70.



Even as the temps go to TjMax and beyond, core2 and core3 always seem to run cooler. Maybe Intel does this on purpose or maybe those cores always make better contact with the IHS during manufacturing so heat transfer and cooling is better.

[Xello]

I just noticed something. Since returning to 4ghz and 1.44v and running prime again my idle temp just before i started prime was 28c on core 0, according to the minimum temperature on RT, so i guess it's not stuck at 32 and i just haven't noticed it going lower. The minimum temps are 28, 32, 36 and 25.

With those adjustments here is my log:

22:33:08 34 34 36 35
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The gadget thingy on my vista sidebar says that the temperature here in livingston is 13c, but i guess that's outside and doesn't help

[unclewebb]

Your temps are better balanced now and it's good to know that core0 isn't stuck. Core2 is stuck and core1 is likely stuck as well. That shouldn't be a problem for your typical idle temps. I'll paste your numbers into Excel and have another look later tonight. What factors were you using for that screen shot data?

[Xello]

Your temps are better balanced now and it's good to know that core0 isn't stuck. Core2 is stuck and core1 is likely stuck as well. That shouldn't be a problem for your typical idle temps. I'll paste your numbers into Excel and have another look later tonight. What factors were you using for that screen shot data?

0.5 0.5 0.0 2.7

[wongnog]

OK, here's my best guess based on the data you've provided and my experience with looking at these numbers.

Try using calibration factors of

0.5 0.5 0.0 2.5

Edit: or maybe a little higher on core3

0.5 0.5 0.0 2.7

Run another quick Prime small FFTs test and show us the numbers with some idle time and some time at full load.

A Quad consists of two dual cores. Core0/core1 should have similar load temps and core2/core3 should have similar load temps. The first pair of cores is typically a couple of degrees hotter at full load.

At idle, all 4 cores should be very similar. Ignore core2 at idle since it is stuck but even it will be pretty close now.

The numbers should look better and I truly believe that they are closer to the true core temperatures but without more data it's only a semi-educated guess.

Here's how my Q6600 looks when running Prime small FFTs while looking good in Mini-Mode. No stability issues during the last 13 hours of testing of version 2.70.



Even as the temps go to TjMax and beyond, core2 and core3 always seem to run cooler. Maybe Intel does this on purpose or maybe those cores always make better contact with the IHS during manufacturing so heat transfer and cooling is better.

How does one determine the proper calibration factors for their setup? Can we just copy the numbers you posted here?

[unclewebb]

How does one determine the proper calibration factors for their setup? Can we just copy the numbers you posted here?

You could but each processor is unique so a Copy and Paste calibration would likely be wrong.

Try reading the documentation about Calibration and if you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them. I don't mind helping but you have to do a little bit of home work first. Learning about these sensors and the basic calibration procedure is a good place to start.

http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/docs.php

[loonym]

You could but each processor is unique so a Copy and Paste calibration would likely be wrong.

Try reading the documentation about Calibration and if you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them. I don't mind helping but you have to do a little bit of home work first. Learning about these sensors and the basic calibration procedure is a good place to start.

http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/docs.php

You need to sig that

[CERO]

So what is the assumption for the tjMAX of a Q6600, still 95c? Thnx

[loonym]

So what is the assumption for the tjMAX of a Q6600, still 95c? Thnx

I don't think he assumed it. He established it through thorough hands on testing. 95c

[unclewebb]

I don't think he assumed it. He established it through thorough hands on testing. 95c

That is a good assumption loonym.
Q6600 G0 continues to be TjMax = 95C

The Default button in RealTemp should reset your TjMax to its default setting.

[djstx2003]

Hi unclewebb!!! i need your help. i have Intel QX9650 cpu with watercooling system and Asus P5E3 Premium mobo. i made all the tests for calibration and i manage to have these calibration settings:



in this photo core 0 and core 1 is at 35 with ambient temps 31. this is also the report temp from Asus pcprobe program and Everest. the tjMax is 95 that all 45nm cpu's have. but the core 2 and core 3 is 5 degrees more even with the calibration. so i played a litlle with the set tjMax setting and here what i made:



i set tjMax to 85 and now all the cores with calibration have the same temps.
is it right to do this? i mean to set the tjMax to 85 and make all cores the same temp?

thank you my friend and congratulations for this great program!!!

regardz

djstx2003

[Xello]

I'm not 100% sure but i think you should leave the TJmax at 95, and make adjustments through your idle values only.

[unclewebb]

i set tjMax to 85 and now all the cores with calibration have the same temps. is it right to do this? i mean to set the tjMax to 85 and make all cores the same temp?

I'll admit that your calibration looks nice but changing TjMax is definitely not the right thing to do.

It is likely that you have a couple of core sensors that are stuck like many other 45nm Quad core owners have. Two or three stuck sensors on a 45nm Quad seems to be pretty typical. You can't use calibration factor corrections or TjMax adjustments to fix a stuck sensor. There's nothing you can do with it to get it to report accurate idle temperatures so step 1 is trying to determine if any of your sensors are stuck.

I'm assuming that you read the documentation and followed the calibration procedure and lowered your core voltage to about 1.10 volts and dropped your frequency to about 2000 MHz for your calibration test. Post a CPU-Z screen shot of that and what RealTemp shows with a 0.0 calibration.

Go back a page to this post and have a look at what I told Xello to do and the information he posted afterward so I could understand his CPU and his sensors better.

[djstx2003]

ok here a photo with fsb 266 and cpu volt 1.10:




also i test the sensors and all is working. i know what is a stuck sensor because this is my second cpu QX9650. the previous i rma it and this is the new.:




and finally here a photo from cpu-z:




from what i see the core 0 and core 1 have the same temps and the same for the other 2 cores but with 5 more. if i overclock the test sensors readings go higher but i think this is normal.
so now what settings can i have to real temp?

thank you for your fast answers my friend!!!

[djstx2003]

and here is another photo with calibration at tjMax 95 and fsb 266 and cpu volt 1.10:

[unclewebb]

Do you know what your water temp is at idle and how accurate that measurement is? When calibrating with water we need to compare your idle temp to that. With your Quad it's pretty easy to see the two separate Dual Cores inside of it. At idle you should try and use calibration values so they all report the same temp. If your sensors were really screwed up then this might not be possible but I think yours are OK.

Do some more idle testing and confirm 39 39 43 43 and tell me what your water temp is.

After that try running Prime95 small FFTs at default MHz and core voltage or if you usually overclock then run your overclocked settings. I just want to see with no calibration if the reported temps get closer together or not. Most of the 65nm Quads that I've seen typically have core0/core1 that run a few degrees hotter than core2/core3 during a Prime test but yours looks sort of the opposite. Give me some more numbers and I should be able to come up with a suggestion or two. If your room temp is 31C then I think you might be trying to calibrate too low. Your real core temperature might be close to 40C.

The temp number from PcProbe and Everest is probably pretty close but it is not a calibrated value that you can fully depend on to be 100% accurate. My CPU sensor that SpeedFan reports can be off by 10C at times.

For calibration values maybe something like:
0.0 0.0 -2.0 -2.0

might be pretty close. With some more testing numbers I'll see if this makes sense. Post some info from the RealTemp log file like Xello did and make me a happy guy. The code /code html tags work great for this.

[djstx2003]

Hi unclewebb!!! heres what i did. with a digital thermometer i took the water temp and it was at 34. i also put the thermometer up to the waterblock on cpu. there the temp was 35-36. ooh!!! today the ambient temp is 32. more warmer day than yesterday.
and finally i made all the steps you told to another guy Xello and heres the log file:
18:42:14 42 42 46 46
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i think all the cores warms and cooldowns the same but i see this difference about the temp of cores. cores 0-1 goes together(example 42) and the cores2-3 goes together but a litlle bit higher about 4-5 degrees more than previous cores 0-1(example 46).
the test is made with no calibration(all defaults, log interval 1) and cpu 450x7(3150Ghz)
so what can i do now? with tjmax 95 the temps is higher about 5-6 degrees more than pcprobe and everest reports. core temp i don't use it because it gives a lot of bad reports of temps in 45nm cpu's.
what is the best settings unclewebb?
its wrong to set the tjmax to 85 and calibrate the cores temps the same like i did previous in my posts?

thank you my friend!!! be well!!!

[unclewebb]

djstx2003: I had a feeling your water temp was a little warmer than you thought it was!

It's definitely wrong to adjust TjMax. I've continued to work with Xello and he's also seeing a 4C difference at full load between the two sets of cores within his Quad. That's very normal and during testing seems to continue right up to TjMax and beyond.



I was getting a consistent 5C difference but the CPU fan was likely on a very low setting to get things this warm or maybe even off some of the time. The point is that difference is normal at full load. At idle this delta should decrease to virtually zero. Surprisingly, I took the heatsink off once and let it get up to a similar temperature but the difference between sets of cores decreased to next to nothing which sort of proved the sensors are OK. I think it has to do with how the IHS contacts the cores but I haven't been motivated enough yet to gut a good processor in the name of science.

The odd part about your CPU is that the difference is fairly uniform from idle to full load. That doesn't usually happen.

My official test as sort of outlined in the documentation suggests using 333x6.0 ~ 2000 MHz for 45nm and about 1.10 volts. Similar voltage is more critical than MHz. Looking at your reported idle temps and your water temp, I wouldn't bother using a calibration factor on core0 or core1. They are both reporting about 41C to 42C at idle which considering your water temperature, is probably a very accurate core temperature. A water cooled Quad will usually idle about 5C above your water temp during my official test. There might be a slight variation depending on the quality of your set up and 101 other factors but this is a good baseline to shoot for.

I'd just use negative calibration factors on core2/core3 (approx. -2.0) to bring their temps at idle down so they equal core0/core1. I think this will provide you with the most accurate approximation of your core temperatures from idle to TjMax. Leave TjMax set to 95C for all of them.

That's my best guess. Your sensors are far better than most Quads. Maybe after an RMA they reach into a bag of processors with good sensors and give you one of them to keep you happy.

Making any comparisons to what Everest or PcProbe or SpeedFan report for the CPU temperature isn't usually a good idea because you don't know how accurate that sensor they are reading is. The Intel DTS sensors are excellent as long as you know where they are accurate and where they are not.