What to get for a Skulltrail system? [newb here]

[Jennifer26]

Ok just to start off.. I have no experience whatsoever in watercooling and all that.. I have looked into it but have never really tried..

Ok so the problem is I just finished building my new system and the temps are fairly high as far as I can see both cpu´s are stated to run at around 55-57c according to Lavalys, and the gfx at about +67c which is hot i guess.. I was thinking if it has to do with my case+coolers+added thermalpaste and whatever. So I tried reapplying thermalpaste and so on several times to see if it had any difference but nope.. It's still running hot overall and if I close the lid of my case the thing just starts to cook really fast.. 60c+ temps

Anyways it doesn't really seem like this aircooling thing is working out so I was wondering if there is any possible way to (easily) add watercooling to just the two cpu's? I guess this would greatly reduce the noise generated from the two Zalmans and overall make the case run cooler and more silent. I have no current experience in watercooling so I don't know if it would work out or not, but it seems like the only and best solution?

I don't really care how much it costs the only requirements I have is that It will make my temps drop significantly and that the noise level will be reduced DRASTICALLY.. Those two Zalmans are getting to my head despite how good they look it's just getting annoying now.

So if anyone can recommend something that will reduce noise/temps and which is fairly possible to install and maintain I would be all over it..

anyways these are my specs:
Akasa Mirage-62
Intel D5400XS mobo
2x Xeon E5420 cpu's
Corsair HX1000W psu
4GB kingston ValueRam 800MHz DDR2 ECC Fully Buffered CL5 KVR800D2D4F5K2/4G
Sparkle 8800GT
2x Zalman CNPS 9700 NT

[IanY]

Please be patient. I will update in stages. I don't own a Skulltrail but have seen two in action, including one that is air cooled with just two Zalman 9500 heatsinks, and it is obnoxiously hot and loud.

First thing to do is to get rid of the incredibly loud SB heatsink fan. That gives me a headache.

I would place a bet that its not the two Zalmans that you are hearing, its the SB fan. The Zalmans come with resistors, but who would want to slow down the fans...

Vadim Blastflow Tidal SkullTrail SB Block

http://www.vadim.co.uk/product38736/...trail+SB+Block


The Danger Den MPC-X38/X48 chipset block works great of the Skulltrail NB chipset, and comes with all mounting accessories in the box. I assume you would prefer to buy from Europe than the west coast of the US, so go to www.coolercases.co.uk and give them a call. They're DD dealers in the UK and can get you what you need.

http://www.dangerden.com/store/produ...&cat=46&page=1

I don't know what Intel was thinking when they designed the NB without a fan, and didn't include a fan.


Next, you may want to tame the ridiculously hot running FB-DIMMs (at least copared to DDR2/DDR3).

MIPS Ram Freezer 4.

http://www.vadim.co.uk/product25311/MIPS+RAM+Freezer+4

There's a current thread in XS. I'll get it linked for you.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=193846


That covers the motherboard. Speak to DarthBeavis, an XS member who uses those precise blocks above. He has a beautiful Skulltrail machine setup. He uses Danger Deb MC-TDX cpu blocks and Danger Den video blocks for his two 9800GX2 video cards.

You most definitely would want to get rid of that csee. If you intend to watercool, you need more than one radiator for a Skulltrail system because you need to cover two cpu blocks, a video block, a NB block, a SB block and a memory block. A single radiator would be overwhelmed.

Also speak to XS forum member and water cooling god CyberDruid. He has a stunning Skulltrail machine too, but uses D-Tek FuZion cpu blocks and an EK block on the NB. He however also uses the Vadim Blastflow SB block. He uses EK video blocks for his two 3870 X2 video cads.

I'll move on to the rest after some preliminary feedback from you. What is left to cover are the cpu blocks, the pumps, the radiators, the reservoir(s), the tubing, the fittings, the liquid and the radiator fans. Most of all, the case, because you need to ditch that small case.

I'll move on to the cpu blocks for now. You need high flow, low restriction cpu water blocks. The choices are: (1) D-Tek FuZion V2, (2) the Danger Den MC-TDX, and (3) the Swiftech Apogee GTX Copper Top. The EK Supreme cpu block is a jet impingement block designed with restriction in mind, and I do not recommend that at all. The D-Tek FuZion V2 would be the highest performing, the DD MC-TDX would be the most user friendly (easiest to set up). The Swiftech Apogee GTX is both good performing and easy to use, but not price competitive and doesn't match the FuZion's performance.

http://www.dtekcustoms.com/index.asp...ROD&ProdID=210
http://www.dangerden.com/store/produ...&cat=92&page=1

Video block. You can get either a Danger Den or EK full covered 8800GT video block.
http://ekwaterblocks.com/shop/produc...roducts_id=217
http://ekwaterblocks.com/shop/produc...roducts_id=219
http://ekwaterblocks.com/shop/produc...roducts_id=218

http://www.dangerden.com/store/produ...&cat=48&page=1

Radiators. I highly recommend at least two radiators, if not more.
The tried and heavily tested Thermochill PA120.3 radiator, with shrouds and gaskets.

http://www.thermochill.com/pa1203.php

The Fesser TFC 480ER or TFC 360ER radiator.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=193689

The Black Ice 480GTX radiator.

http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/HWla...TX-Review.html

[dubtown]

it doesnt look like theres anywhere to put a rad inside that case... maybe a 120.2 in the top front... but i doubt thats enough for two xeons...

would you mind going external or getting a bigger case?

[Jennifer26]

Wow.. That is a long post.. Anyways I have read everything carefully and I see that there is ALOT of things that is needed to buy to get this thing running. But my foremost question would be, Will I be able to install and maintain all of this? You have to remember that I have never messed with WC before and most likely will have to figuratively hold someones hand through the whole installation. As far as I have understood you don't recommend only watercooling a few of the parts but everything, ram, gfx, cpu's, nb, sb etc. Which is quite overwhelming. Anyways the case doesen't have to be closed or anything I can run things externally if needed. I have seen pictures of tubes hanging out of cases etc.. I really don't mind it looking like that, but if theres a specific case that will fit everything I might go for it just for the looks.

Let's say hypothetically that I'm going to do this and it's going to work, then I will need this so far.. As for as I have understood:

Vadim Blastflow Tidal SkullTrail SB Block - For the SB of the board
Danger Den MPC-X38/X48 - For the NB of the board
MIPS Ram Freezer 4 - One of these
D-Tek FuZion V2 - two of these i guess.. might as well buy it if it's the best.. I mean how hard can it be to install?
Video block - Which would you recommend?
Radiators - ??? I guess they generate noise? Which one is the most silent?

what would the noise level of such a setup be? I guess there will be some? Or will it be quite low? and how would the maintenance be?

[IanY]

I have to be perfectly honest.

Watercooling is overwhelming. There is a lot to read and learn. You cannot just jump into it without learning.

I assume you are going for silence.. correct?

Let's run down what makes noise in your machine:

PSU - I can't help you there. Actually the Corsair pSU that you use is about the quietest out there.

Video card - I don't have a G92 Nvidia, but I heard that they are pretty darn quiet, so water cooling isn't necessary.

CPUs - Zalman CNPS 9500/9700 do not have the noisiest fans, but their cooling becomes substandard when you slow down the fans, so you definitely need water cooling here.

Memory - runs quite hot but works alright without any special cooling, so water cooling is not strictly necessary.

NB - works without fan, but is hot. So, water cooling is not critical, but would be nice.

SB - this is a noisy sucker and must drive you insane. Water cooling this will quiet down the machine a lot. Unfortunately, the only Skulltrail SB block that *I know* of is the Vadim Blastflow. I'm told that Danger Den has one block designed but its not for sale on their web site.

HDD - water cooling not necessary.


Water cooling can be as quiet as you want (silence driven), or as noisy as you want (performance driven). Most people like a compromise between those two objectives. If you are just searching for silence and don't mind the temps as long as your machine works, then there are solutions for that too.

[NaeKuh]

a girl building a skulltrail system.

can i ask where you hang out at and if there is more kind of girls like you to go around?





seriously, a girl who knows what fine art is


Watercooling skulltrail is not simple.
To be exact, its like telling someone who has no knowledge of mechanics to do an oil change on a ferarri. The concepts is the same, however the work, and find details is a PITA.

Can i ask why your going h2o? It might be safer/easier for you to go aftermarket air.

Your not going for the massive overclocks are you? If you are, you just stole my heart twice!

Zalman's arent great on quadcore. You would be better off mounting 2 TRUE's with an LGA771 bracket. We can help you piece everything out.

I just dont recomend going skulltrail as your first h2o project. Something about that scares me. And im looking past your skirt. :T
Meaning, i wouldnt recomend this to ANYONE.

[kevinbo03]

Thus far I agree with all of IanY's points, But I think the first thing you need to focus on is whether you want to change the case, And if not, How you plan to accommodate at least two large radiators. Something akin to a Waterkeg. If you want to change the case, Something good for your configuration would be a Mountain Mods case.

I only say this because you surely cant fit it all into that Akasa, And Planing will be a large part of any WC project, So why not start at the basic frame?

As for a first WC Project- Damn, It's ambitious, But I think you can do it. Learning water cooling isn't too hard, I just takes caution and patience, And Hands-On learning is (for me at least) the best way to learn any craft and assembly based hobby. How many of use learned to build computers from a textbook? Heck no! As a kid, I tore apart 4 old family PCs before I was able to get one back together, That's how i learned!

Just be careful and cautious, Always ask for help an opinions, And be ready to make mistakes. Not that you surely will, But just be ready in case you do.

[Jennifer26]

Ahh I appreciate the reply's.. I'll try to put it all on the table.. If it is possible I would like to avoid getting a new case as the one I currently have looks great and honestly those mountain mod cases are seriously hideous, just plain ugly. But if It is recommended or if it will make it (alot) easier to install the WC then I guess I'm forced to get one.

about the temp and the noise.. Both really bothers me.. the 65c while running for a couple of hours is too much obvoiusly. And the noise is just unbearable. I would be perfectly fine if it was possible to get the system running at just 40-50c while delivering alot less noise so I can get some work done. Currently I'm using my laptop as the Skulltrail is too hot/noisy. Every year or two I build myself a new system so I'm not always updateded on the latest and this year I saw the skulltrail and I just wanted it for no apparent reason. Either way what's done is done I got the parts I build the thing now I just have to get rid of this problem or else I can't really live with it.. didn't expect it to be so hot/noisy.

Honestly I'm more bothered about noise than heat but it would be nice if I could get a fairly silent PC running at 40-50c... That would be satisfactory. I guess watercooling the two cpu's and the SB is a must, everything else is still to be decided.

[coolmiester]

I've been running a Skulltrail system on the living room table, two or three feet from where i sit every night now for a couple of weeks with both CPU's on water via an exturnal waterbox but the rest of the system is as is and i've got to say i have no issues what so ever with the SB in either fan noise or heat so i'm struggling to keep up with previous posts on that one tbh.

I did however notice almost immediately that the NB and RAM were running seriously hot, to the point i actually powered down and did more research as i honestly thought it was borderline dangerous so after that i attached the NB 40mm fan and also a 120mm fan directed at the RAM and everything heat wise was taken care of.

For me, the heat issue is with CPU's, RAM, NB and of course the GX2 GFX cards but mosfets and SB seem to run what i would say pretty cool & quiet so my main aim is to get the hot noisy bits under water ASAP and the rest i can easily cope with especially once the system gets transferred into a case.........unless i'm missing something???

Having said all that i would have used the Blastflow block on the SB just to get it all on water but it just won't fit with the GX2's

[IanY]

The gentlemen here are going to tie me to a stake and call in the firing squad, but I'm going tio suggest this anyway.

Take a look at Trubitar's Skulltrail system. He's a Brit and has a high end machine. He seems to do very well on Koolance and Zalman external water cooling equipment. I would betthat they are not exactly the best performing, but I bet they are quiet, and work alright. Everything is external, allowing you to use your existing case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chCa0XrmKaU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70AoHGg4jhY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS5yx-XFm14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1S-Tl3TiOo

This guy likes Koolance equipment very much. I can't argue with how high end his system is... top notch.. and his temps are not bad at all.

You know what? I think you are the perfect candidate for Koolance equipment.

Now excuse me while I go search for a cave in the Afghanistan mountains to hide from the coming onslaught led by Naekuh

[IanY]

I've been running a Skulltrail system on the living room table, two or three feet from where i sit every night now for a couple of weeks with both CPU's on water via an exturnal waterbox but the rest of the system is as is and i've got to say i have no issues what so ever with the SB in either fan noise or heat so i'm struggling to keep up with previous posts on that one tbh.

I believe you fully my friend. However, CyberDruid can also chime in. He experienced the ear piercing SB fan as well, and the system I saw was unbearably loud (sounded like the whine from an old 60mm Delta used on old Swiftech heatsinks) from the SB. I wanted to use my finger to slow down the fan, but the system owner would have shot me in the head.

[NaeKuh]

Jennifer,

2 Thermalright Ultra 120 with yate slow spinning fans. MAke sure you lap the sink.

HR-05 for northbridge.

The south bridge will be difficult cuz of how it looks. Maybe you can ask CD or CM to make you an AIR sink for that.

Get 2 thermalright LGA771 Xeon mounts for your TRUE's.

You'll be happy with that outcome without h2o.

I should ask WES to come in. He has an aircooled Skulltrail.


Seriously, watercooling your skulltrail will be nightmares.

CM and CD are PRO modders. It doesnt get much better then those two. TO them looping something like this is another day at work. To a newbie, i shutter at your reaction when you see all the watercooling parts alone.

As for Iany, Im gonna grab the HOA to TP your house next door. I hope your prepared.

[Kilyin]

Funny, if the poster was named Bob79 and had an avatar of half a bald man's head there wouldn't be any responses to this thread.

And it would probably be closer to the truth.

Just sayin'.

[Jennifer26]

honestly I already have a Thermalright Ultra 120 laying around and that could hardly keep my older Anthlon X2 below 50c... I can just imagine how It would work on the skulltrail. What would I need to get the Cpu's watercooled? Those video's didn't really say anything about what to buy.

[WesM63]

Jennifer,
NaeKuh asked me to chime in. I have a similar setup, as you can see in my sig. There is nothing wrong with watercooling, but as others have suggested, it is a huge undertaking on ST. I'm not familiar with the Akasa Mirage-62, but from the looks of it, it can't be much bigger than my stacker 830. Even AIR cooling that was a huge PITA. (I'm using 2x Thermalright Ultra 120 eXtremes with Sanyo Denki fans)

I'm not trying to discourage you, but I would suggest watercooling another system first, before trying to stuff watercooling on a ST system, in a case no less.


Oh, and you don't need anything special for the Intel D5400XS as it uses the S775 mounting.

A ST system gets VERY hot, make sure you have some airflow over those FB-DIMM's (I use the Corsair Dominator fan). You also need lots of air flow through the case. My cpu's stay around 50c full load on all 8 cores, but it sure does generate tons of heat, it literally is a space heater.


TBH, I personally wouldn't hesitate watercooling my skulltrail, but I also think its more hassle than its worth.


EDIT:
Something is seriously wrong if you think a TRUE won't keep your e5410's under 50c at idle.

Here is mine, full load at 3.2ghz (1vcore setting above stock) using 2x TRUE's.

[NaeKuh]

honestly I already have a Thermalright Ultra 120 laying around and that could hardly keep my older Anthlon X2 below 50c... I can just imagine how It would work on the skulltrail. What would I need to get the Cpu's watercooled? Those video's didn't really say anything about what to buy.

You need to get the extreme versions.

And lap it.

Thermalright does not understand what flat sink means:

Funny, if the poster was named Bob79 and had an avatar of half a bald man's head there wouldn't be any responses to this thread.

And it would probably be closer to the truth.

Just sayin'.

actually i help anyone who looks like they need help. Usually someone i trust gets to them b4 i do.

However this thread was getting kinda funny. So i had to jump in.


Okey, if your really serious on setting this up.

You will need 2 cpu blocks, something with fairly low restriction. You need to go for a high flow design on this, since were not going to complicate things forget accelerators. Having 2 accelerator blocks <--- this would require dual loops for each cpu. Something your not gonna be happy about.

So 2 XSPC blocks<-- ideal, or D-tek V1 not V2 blocks would be ideal. Make sure you PAIR them. Dont be trying each flavor out please.

Now your gonna do what i call a section paralell. What that means, your loop is serial, however on a short section it will split up and go paralell.

The trick to paralell is that you need = tube lengths on that T. If one tube length is off, you'll mess up your paralell.

The reason why i say paralell is because this is the only way i can see you getting very even temps. Having them on serial would lead to unsteady cores. (im a bit of a perfectionist. you can serial the blocks tho, however this paralell method would be ideal)

As for the radiator, your gonna need something massive. Problem now is your case isnt very good for fitting a large class radiator. HWlabs BlackIce 480GTX is ideal. Feser if you want to support a fat company overcharging for there excellent radiators. <-- no pun, seriously expensive radiators that perform great, but loses to the 480GTX.

Theres 3 options,
1. is ghetto top mount. Just have it a few inches ontop of your case, and have 2 holes where you can feed the tubes.
2. Rear Mount <--- still dont like how this looks
3. External casing <--- better route.

Route 3 would require you contacting a custom builder or recycling an old computer case as a shell.


Now pumps. Sigh once again your out of space inside your case. :X Dual DDC's is almost mandiatory for that kind of setup. Then you'll need tops.
Tubing...

Your seriously dont want to change cases??? each time i go onto the next subject i keep thinking DOE! she ran out of space.
Have you seen the ever so sexy Lian Li 343B?



DD has a box that could also pull it off very nicely. Its called Tower 26.
http://www.dangerden.com/store/produ...5&cat=1&page=1


But Jennifer, let me say one thing. Your best and safe/ideal case is a Mountain Mods Horrizon. The reason i say this, ive felt the weight of tri-sli, and dualcard blocks. You seriously will thank me if you buy the horrizon, because its a horrizontal mount case with a TON of space.

[Justintoxicated]

I can't imagine+ its super hard, just finding a case to fit everything in might be difficult. Difficult part of watercooling is finding a case that supports large radiator (ie. 2 thermochill PA 120.3's). The other real obstacle is priming the loop, if you set it up worng this can be difficult.

Take each WC part one piece at a time. Figure out what to do for CPU's then for video card etc. Mounting the stuff is not terribly difficult IMO once you have a case selected and radiators mounted... Then its jsut connecting tubes. Use Worm-Drive (hose) clamps is all I'm goign to throw in. Routing the tubing remember that less is more (Same with number of connections or plugged ports) Every part you buy is one more part that can leak.

[freakgeek1337]

It looks like Jen will need to buy a case from Dualbrain or Charles. Well anyway, wcing that SkullTrail won't be easy. You basically have one more component to cool. When it's a Xeon/QX9775 this project will be a PITA. I think from all these posts, you might have a headache already. Let me summerize. Naekuh, I think she might want to use a MC-TDX. BTW if your buying a vid card, check out the 4870 from ATi.

CPU Block: D-Tek FuZion V2 or Danger Den MC-TDX x2
GPU Block: Danger Den or EK 4870 full cover clocks.
NB Block: Danger Den MPC X38/X48
SB Block: Vadim Blastflow Tidal SkullTrail
Memory Block: MIPS RAM Freezer
Pumps: Laing D5 with EK tops (BTW you'll need a few of these, seperate loops will also be needed)

[DarthBeavis]

Jennifer,

2 Thermalright Ultra 120 with yate slow spinning fans. MAke sure you lap the sink.

HR-05 for northbridge.

The south bridge will be difficult cuz of how it looks. Maybe you can ask CD or CM to make you an AIR sink for that.

Get 2 thermalright LGA771 Xeon mounts for your TRUE's.

You'll be happy with that outcome without h2o.

I should ask WES to come in. He has an aircooled Skulltrail.


Seriously, watercooling your skulltrail will be nightmares.

CM and CD are PRO modders. It doesnt get much better then those two. TO them looping something like this is another day at work. To a newbie, i shutter at your reaction when you see all the watercooling parts alone.

As for Iany, Im gonna grab the HOA to TP your house next door. I hope your prepared.

I am not a pro yet but I have a little experience here. Please condense what you want and expect and parameters into a single post and I will help you choose parts for your setup based on what works. You do want to cool your ram, NB, and SB if you can afford to do so. A Mountain Mods case would work really well or you can do a Danger Den Tower 26 rig (single 4 fan rad in front but it can be cut to mount another smaller one on top for two loops or you can wait a little bit for their new case build for the Skulltrail that houses two three fans rads in the bottom).

If USA stuff won't work then let me know as well.

Little messy but nice cooling:
Have not done the wire management so now shots under teh skirt

[NaeKuh]

DB your name wasnt brought up until now.

And yes you are a PRO Modder. :P


Paralell works better off T. Like how fugger had his. :X

Only with different blocks and more flow.

oh and yes ive done a dual processor system like that.
It works really good DB.

[IanY]

DB your name wasnt brought up until now.

What you talking about? I mentioned DB's name in the very first post I made.

[twwen2]

You know what? I think you are the perfect candidate for Koolance equipment.

Now excuse me while I go search for a cave in the Afghanistan mountains to hide from the coming onslaught led by Naekuh

Not so long ago you would have had half of XS WC after you! Thankfully koolance have started to see the light and are finally putting out some products that make sense!

[freakgeek1337]

DB should call that setup the "Rainbow". Does need some cable-management. But other than that it's pimp-like.

[IanY]

Not so long ago you would have had half of XS WC after you! Thankfully koolance have started to see the light and are finally putting out some products that make sense!

They are? I'm going to build an all-Koolance system soon for my wife

I could care less if 3/4 of XS is after me I've basically pissed off 95% of XS with my anti-bling statements and I am already ostracized Makes no difference what I use and its also no one's concern

[twwen2]

I meant that they are starting to ditch alu in their latest blocks. Slow and painful it must be .

I know ur reputation here as someone who likes going against the grain, i read ur s and giggles build log . Top stuff