55nm GT200 (GT200-400) on the way?

[kromosto]

"if somebody opposed your ideas call him a fanboy" this is the new way of "argue"ing in XS.

i think mods have to ban fanboy word

[Xoulz]

You AMD fanboys are the ones who don't listen to reason. AMD right or wrong! I checked that link and there was no mention of how much Nvidia or AMD are paying for their TSMC wafers. It was also a "known fact" that the R600 was going to blow away the competition. Until it was released. Then all the AMD fanboys were proven wrong. I have yet to see any facts here. If they are so known, then why is it so difficult to cite your sources? And "well grounded predictions"? That is totally idiotic. There's nothing "well grounded" about your wild guesses. Nothing. I think you are morons for making the assumptions that you do. You may not lack "common sense" but you certainly lack critical reasoning skills.

Still trolling...?

We are enthusiasts, it doesn't matter who's chip it is, we are having a logical discussion. It seems your blindfolded because your inherent love for nVidia doesn't allow you to acknowledge FACTS.

My link DID give you facts. Matter of fact, there is a photo of the GTX wafer. Secondly, you now know there is 94 cores per 300mm wafer. Which before you feigned ingnorance....

So, I'm going to play connect-the-dots with you.

Here:
GameSpot
theINQUIRER
PureOC

Probably more than you'll ever want to know:
SemaTech


So... as you can see, it is widely accepted that a 300mm wafer cost about $5,000 dollars. If you wish not to accept this widely known fact, then your just being stubborn and/or an utter "fanboi".

But, just to prove your ignorance, even if we use some fictitiously low cost of $3,500 per wafer and an industry mind blowing 50% yield for a 1.4billion transistor fab, your still looking at $75 per GTX200 core. (Which in reality is estimated @ 20% yield, or about $277 per core)

How do you make a complete Video card with heat sink, fan and materials for $25 bucks..?

2) both the HD4870 and the GTX280 cost under $100 to manufacture.

So (again) remedial mathematics suggest you have no clue as to the business end of microprocessors. We are indeed concerned for Nvidia... and also taking a stab at them while their obviously down.... simply because their monopolistic stance. This will be my first ATI card in a long time and I am quite sure that nearly every gamer and enthusiast is right there with me.

By the time Nvidia actually goes 55nm with their GTX200 series, ATI will probably be getting better yields than what they are and will be able to drop the price of their HD4000 series even more.

Which we are all happy about... except die-hard nVidia fans!




.

[Anemone]

I'm happy they both have good cards. I'm dissappointed that NV didn't manage 10.1, displayport on some models, and 55nm. But I'm pleased as punch that AMD has a good quality chip, worthy of the money asked for it.

[spursindonesia]

I just love ATi can make a good comeback this round, God knows how much they need it, nVidia will be fine, they're the one who's sitting over a mountain of cash and a majority of marketshare, so a step back or two won't hurt them much, only will push them harder to make better & MORE AFFORDABLE product for us.

[G0ldBr1ck]

GDDR5 just ramped up and trust me, it probably costs about what a chip of solid gold what cost of the same size. I would say AMD is taking about a $3299 loss on every card due to the expensive GDDR5.

Wow, Thats the best theory I've ever heard

Prove that to me so I can start my new busness buying 4870's removing the ram and selling them to ATI for only $1200.

[kromosto]

Wow, Thats the best theory I've ever heard

Prove that to me so I can start my new busness buying 4870's removing the ram and selling them to ATI for only $1200.

can i be your partner

[G0ldBr1ck]

can i be your partner

not taking on any partners till R700 comes out twice as much ram.

Im so glad I finely found a sig quote! Hehe "Trust me" he says.

[Neuuubeh]

Wowza, those gt280 chips seem to cost dearly to nvidia :x :x.
Some very informative posts here tho, especially liked the one from savantu thanks

[jackolantern7]

Still trolling...?

So, I'm going to play connect-the-dots with you.

.

*yawn* over-use that phrase much? You sure like connect the dots..

[alexio]

I've learned that the new GT200 55nm will come maybe in the end of Q3, but probably in the beginning of Q4. Either way it isn't very far away

[Nedjo]

I've learned that the new GT200 55nm will come maybe in the end of Q3, but probably in the beginning of Q4. Either way it isn't very far away

since 55nm process is linear shrink, we'll have 400 mm^2 GPU at bast case (if NVIO2 isn't implemented on die). If NVIO2 is implemented then GPU will be few % bigger! That's still way bigger that RV770's 260 mm^2 so I don't see how NVIDIA can compete with ATI margin vise?!

[alexio]

since 55nm process is linear shrink, we'll have 400 mm^2 GPU at bast case (if NVIO2 isn't implemented on die). If NVIO2 is implemented then GPU will be few % bigger! That's still way bigger that RV770's 260 mm^2 so I don't see how NVIDIA can compete with ATI margin vise?!

My prediction is that it will have less redundany to make it smaller than 55nm alone could. I've stated before that Nvidia may go all out and release a chip with more active components (and the same or a little more transistors), but this will hurt them financially in the short run. In the long run their image may be more important.

[alexio]

This is XS guys. Just play nice, there is no reason to ruin this thread.

[jackolantern7]

I just noticed Xoulz doing a lot of insulting people. I'm surprised mods haven't stepped in.

[G0ldBr1ck]

Down with Nvidia!!! Down with Nvidia!!! Light those torches!! Let's storm the Satan Clara offices and exterminate every last one of them!! AMD 4ever!! AMD rulez!! Your plaster casts of Hector's duck are on their way! Now continue with the circle jerk. Don't let me stop you from sucking each other's ducks.

Do you act like this out in the real world or do you just go online to help yourself feel big and bad and vent out all that immaturity?

There is so much of this crap going on lately its getting old.

[Movieman]

I just noticed Xoulz doing a lot of insulting people. I'm surprised mods haven't stepped in.

We sleep also..But react to all reported posts..
And you sir will in seconds find your account is banned for being the same person,sr7 amongst others with banned accounts.
The Hammer swings both ways here.. See ya..

[eleeter]

I've learned that the new GT200 55nm will come maybe in the end of Q3

Be so kind as to reveal your source

Good news for NV if true.

[alexio]

Be so kind as to reveal your source

Good news for NV if true.

An Nvidia partner, but that's all I can say.

[initialised]

You AMD fanboys are the ones who don't listen to reason. AMD right or wrong! I checked that link and there was no mention of how much Nvidia or AMD are paying for their TSMC wafers. It was also a "known fact" that the R600 was going to blow away the competition. Until it was released. Then all the AMD fanboys were proven wrong. I have yet to see any facts here. If they are so known, then why is it so difficult to cite your sources? And "well grounded predictions"? That is totally idiotic. There's nothing "well grounded" about your wild guesses. Nothing. I think you are morons for making the assumptions that you do. You may not lack "common sense" but you certainly lack critical reasoning skills.

I see the 2900 as the beta for the 4870, the 2900 did not live up to expectations, perhaps because it was released a year early on an out of date technology!

Factors influencing die cost:
Die size
Bulk wafer cost
Fabrication process
Yield

Area G200:R770 = 256:576 = 9:4 = 2.25
Cost (1GB DDR3 ASUS Cards) 4850:GTX280 £183.59:£339.56 = 1.85

This is a difficult comparison since the 4850 1GB is the most expensive model and the only 1GB variant on Scan and the GTX280 is their cheapest model. However, moving to more expensive GTX280s brings the cost ratio in line with the die density ratio.

So yes, the cost of the competing TMSC GPUs correlates at around 1:1 with die area after any reduction in cost due to using a 65nm rather than 55nm process. My guess is that this is offset by poor yield due to high area.

Not using the latest technology node (65nm) is part of why the 2900 (90nm) did not live up to expectations.

[Kingcarcas]

Sweet, do you guys think power consumption will be lower than 4870?

[initialised]

Sweet, do you guys think power consumption will be lower than 4870?

If you mean 4870 vs 65nm G200 then they're equivalent.

If you mean 55nm G200 vs 4870 then based on the G92 die shrink, also equivalent.

[xlimit]

Q4 Nv would release GT200b 55nm with 256-bit and GDDR5
Q1-Q2 2009 New DX10.1 Card with GDDR5......http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...lies/smile.gif
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...lies/smile.gif

[Kingcarcas]

If you mean 4870 vs 65nm G200 then they're equivalent.

If you mean 55nm G200 vs 4870 then based on the G92 die shrink, also equivalent.

Then this is probably just so they can make more per wafer

[JohnZS]

It's the Ultra and will be released on the 11th of July

-Core Clock: 738MHz
- Shader Clock: 1666MHz
- Memory Data Rate: 2520MHz

Pricing believe it or not is around the same price (in the UK) as Crossfire HD4870 512MB cards

I'm guessing this will be pretty fast. perhaps the best single card solution?

John

[Seraphiel]

It's the Ultra and will be released on the 11th of July

-Core Clock: 738MHz
- Shader Clock: 1666MHz
- Memory Data Rate: 2520MHz

Pricing believe it or not is around the same price (in the UK) as Crossfire HD4870 512MB cards

I'm guessing this will be pretty fast. perhaps the best single card solution?

John

Wow, I didn't expect that. That sure will be a fast card, but I doubt it can take the crown from the HD 4780 X2. Will be great to see benches and more info when it unleashed.