XS Fan Review - Part 2

[Darkatom]

Hey vapor, do you figure that the Scythe G and a True would make for some great performance ? (Currently using a Tuniq fan )

[philbrown23]

nice roundup! now I know what fans I want to buy!

[generics_user]

A little something extra for the P12

ok now i take all my old 120 mm fans, from lianli crap to silenx crap (i have one of them ,wanted to check them out, worst 22€ i spent on hardware until now) for my new wc setup so i can hold out until you post results for these

i had a look at their product page and their RPM/CFM/Preasure ration seems to pwn according to their data, much better than nanoxia which look like yate loon clones and other fans where i was able to find data on static preasure...

wanna post some first results for the P12 so i can compare them with round 2??

[Faktor]

Vapor, I may have stumbled upon something very interesting if I am not overlooking anything.

I was looking at your Part 2 high speed fan numbers and noticed the ComairRoton in there.

You tested the MC12B7 rated at 102cfm, 47.8dba, 6-14volts, 7.9watts.

I was browsing their fan selection and stumbled upon some very awesome looking fans (spec wise.)

Their Gryphon series have more blades and I found one that looks amazing. It's 38mm thick instead of the 33mm on the MC12B7.

Gryphon GDA1238-12BB rated at 128cfm, 43.5dba, 6-13.8volts, 7.2watts.

Specsheet: http://www.comairrotron.com/cgi-bin/...ameter_unit=in


Googled the model # quickly and found them in stock:

http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/437...1238-12bb.html

$14.27 each for 1.

Just thought you might like to grab one of those and test them out as they look extremely nice spec wise. I'm actually thinking about buying one and slapping it on a fan controller just to see how it does.

All of ComairRotons fans: http://www.comairrotron.com/cgi-bin/...ameter_unit=in

[kiparosu]

Any difference between petra's YL SH's and jab-tech's high speed loons?

[Exedy]

Hi guys i was looking for a high cfm fan, but not too noisy, do you think Scythe Kaze 3000rpm ( 133cfm, 45dba ) would be a good choice?

[Battle_Rattle]

You should try to score some of these.... Reminds me of Aerocool Turbine...

http://www.tacens.com/fans.htm

I know nothing about them... beyond I have never heard of them before.

EDIT.... Spec sheets looks like SilenX statements

[Judaeus Apella]

If its one thing I've learned, CFM means nothing if the fan creates low air pressure. All that air has to change course constantly, wind around all kinds of obstacles, and is forced through small openings and vents. This can take a heavy toll on the CFM that a fan produces and this is why air pressure is so vitally important.

I'd like to see a review of the air pressure verses CFM and dba, that these fans create.

And why isn't there any Delta fans in this review? There's also some other great companies that aren't even mentioned in this.

An excellent job none the less, but still I really want to see someone take air pressure into account for once and have more companies included in a fan review.

Also keep in mind what different types of designs are for. Some are for high air pressure but low CFM, such as those turbine designs, while others are designed for high CFM and low air pressure conditions when there isn't much blocking the air flow. Those louder more powerful fans are designed to create a lot of CFM and air pressure, which is useful for servers and other high performance computers. Some are designed to push the air in a more narrowly aimed direction while others are meant to spread it out over a wider area. Of course the way all of these fans are individually designed can impact how much noise they make and how efficient they are for their intended purpose, no matter what that intended purpose is.

The bottom line is different fan designs are intended for different types of uses, and its important to know what each fan is designed for and how well each fan excels at its intended purpose. Its important to know this information because people buy the wrong fan for the wrong job all the time, then wonder why it doesn't work as well as they thought it would for the purpose they intended it for.

I don't think I've ever seen most of this information included in a fan review, even though this information is very important.

[cegras]

Delta makes good fans, but they are called 'delta screamers' for a reason. You sound informed, so I shouldn't have to point out that there is a huge push in general to quiet computing .. getting a fan that will push air and create good static pressure while keeping things quiet. Why do you think Noctua has been able to sell their fans for an obnoxious premium?

[Vapor]

If its one thing I've learned, CFM means nothing if the fan creates low air pressure. All that air has to change course constantly, wind around all kinds of obstacles, and is forced through small openings and vents. This can take a heavy toll on the CFM that a fan produces and this is why air pressure is so vitally important.

CFM and static pressure are just the two endpoints on the P-Q curve. Neither means anything without the other for our uses. I agree that fans with poor "pressure" are less useful (looks at Noctua S12), but for case airflow, the fans are only a small part of the equation--the way they're set up I'd argue is even more important. That said though, as long as a case has more than 1 fan, airflow will be pretty decent and airflow impedance will not be a significant issue (unless you have a PACKED case--things change at the SFF level). The pressure drop in that scenario is still very much closer to the max airflow endpoint (rather than the static pressure endpoint).

I'd like to see a review of the air pressure verses CFM and dba, that these fans create.

The static pressure endpoint is almost useless data on its own, IMO. We're not using the fans to decrease/increase the air pressure of a volume, we're using them to move air. The most effective types of data are noise, airflow in open air, and airflow through a variety of setups. Due to time constraints, I've only focused on noise, airflow in open air, and airflow through an MCR120. I've considered adding a PA120.1 or an aircooling radiator, but after reviewing various fan filters airflow characteristics, I can feel safe saying it would be a lot of effort with very little data saying something other than what the MCR120 gives.

From a technical point of view, the MCR120 test is another point on the P-Q curve. Because it's MUCH closer to the pressure drop of what we actually encounter (because it is an example of what we actually encounter) than a static pressure reading, I feel the data is more useful.

And why isn't there any Delta fans in this review? There's also some other great companies that aren't even mentioned in this.

Some Deltas were in part 1 and two more will be in part 3. I find them somewhat irrelevant. As cegras said, they're not called "Delta Screamers" for nothing. And there is a huge focus on quieter computing these days and Deltas don't quiet down very well. Frankly, the temperature improvements from a ~61CFM S-Flex F to a 220CFM Delta monster are small in my experiences. Only 5C difference on a TRUE and a hot Q6600 is simply not worth the aural pain.

Maybe I'll be surprised by these two new Deltas I'm testing for Part 3, though preliminary tests say otherwise.

An excellent job none the less, but still I really want to see someone take air pressure into account for once and have more companies included in a fan review.

Some pressure data is there...it's not static pressure but it is another point on the P-Q curve.

Frankly, we're not very close to the static pressure endpoint of the P-Q curve. An MCR120 usually takes off only 20-30% of the airflow of a 'normal' fan. And because static pressure scales proportionally to the square of the RPM of a fan, people will probably overreact to static pressure numbers (an Ultra Kaze 2000 has 4x the static pressure of the 1000, but only 2x the airflow in open air....on a radiator it's maybe 2.1x, but most people will think they're going to have 3x-4x the airflow ). So a 10% increase in static pressure might only deliver a 1-3% increase in airflow through a radiator (or any impeded system). But a design like that is often at the expense of open air airflow (thus likely negating the gain) or worse yet, at the expense of the noise characteristics. When a radiator/case starts taking off >75% of airflow, then we'll need more static pressure (and this was very much the case a few years ago with some older Thermalright HSFs that had super-dense and deep fins and a cooling base at the bottom of the fins--HSF design has since evolved to use the airflow that fans can adequately deliver quietly and we've benefitted greatly).

Also keep in mind what different types of designs are for. Some are for high air pressure but low CFM, such as those turbine designs, while others are designed for high CFM and low air pressure conditions when there isn't much blocking the air flow.

In my experience, turbine-like fans are basically the worst on a radiator/filter. Aerocool Turbines and Noctua S12s come to mind.

Those louder more powerful fans are designed to create a lot of CFM and air pressure, which is useful for servers and other high performance computers. Some are designed to push the air in a more narrowly aimed direction while others are meant to spread it out over a wider area. Of course the way all of these fans are individually designed can impact how much noise they make and how efficient they are for their intended purpose, no matter what that intended purpose is.

I wish I had more time to investigate how the shape of airflow effects things, I'm also very interested in its effects--though if I had to guess, it's trivial compared to other aspects

The bottom line is different fan designs are intended for different types of uses, and its important to know what each fan is designed for and how well each fan excels at its intended purpose. Its important to know this information because people buy the wrong fan for the wrong job all the time, then wonder why it doesn't work as well as they thought it would for the purpose they intended it for.

Mostly agreed...it's always important to buy fans for what you need. That said, most fans these days perform similarly. The best out there are the best with no caveats (San Ace, S-Flex, Yate Loons, Zalmans). They'd be good anywhere in your system--they all are open air leaders, fan filter leaders, and radiator leaders.

I think at this point the bigger concern with fans is the SilenX-plague that has overtaken every marketing department. SilenXs, Silverstones, Slip Streams, Thermaltakes, and a few other companies all have utterly bogus ratings. Mother Goose couldn't have written them better herself.

A consumer who tries to educate themselves would be lost simply because the information they're basing their decisions on is entirely incomparable (and basically fake).

I don't think I've ever seen most of this information included in a fan review, even though this information is very important.

Martinm210 has the ability to test static pressure of fans (or is working on it...he's run into technical difficulties and also scheduling difficulties) and while I'd like to see the numbers just for the sake of seeing them, I do fear they'll get taken drastically out of context

[Judaeus Apella]

Yay! Vapor liked what I had to say! *parades around the room enthusiastically, with a great sense of intellectual accomplishment.* Finally I am a valued member of this community! ....I hope

I recall seeing pressure measured once by having the fan blow into a small air tight enclosed space, with some kind of atmospheric pressure measuring gauge within the enclosed space. I don't remember where I saw this, it was online years ago.

And I actually disagree with the whole screamer delta fan statement. I've had a 150cfm Delta on the back of my case working as the exaust for about 4 years now, and it does a great job when turned all the way down. It feels like a leaf blower, and yet it barely makes any noise. Of course, I don't have my computer up on the desk out in the open like some people do, but its not tucked down inside a desk either. It just sits down on the ground next to my feet under a table. I never notice it running... ever.

[generics_user]

any update on the schedule of round 3???

i really want to see the performance of these new noctua fans, i love the looks of them (fan-blade design, going to spray them in black/white once i get my hands on them^^). the S12 were amazing as case fans, almost inaudible , i only need something like the S12 suitable for rads...

if the review still takes its time is it possible to give a preview on the p12???

[zepper]

Faktor,
. It looks like those Comair/rotron fans might be interesting. Does the noise ratchet down dramatically with speed? I wouldn't have believed it but Mouser charges nearly 50% more that Digikey for onesies. I'll have to look and see whether Mcmaster-Carr sells them.

Battle Rattle,

. I wouldn't get too het up over those Centus things - looks like just another set of gimcracks in search of some suckers.

.bh.

[Judaeus Apella]

Really, if you buy the right Delta fan... not one of those high CFM monsters, they can actually be very well tamed. So you need to be very careful which ones you test in the next review. Delta DOES make fans designed to be more quite than their other models, and some of the higher CFM models CAN be tamed well.

[cablesguy]

Hi Vapor,

Are the SFlex G's way much louder than the F's, as it has almost identical db ratings as the Panaflo medium BX's, 35 against 35.5, personally i found the panaflos a little too loud for my liking.


Thx

[cantankerous]

I am anxiously awaiting the results on these new G variants of the S-Flex. I need higher than 1600+ RPM to properly break through the mesh covering the blow holes on my TJ09 case. Anything 1600rpm and less just doesn't cut it. I also need it to be NON sleeved and 25mm thick which really cuts out a lot of potential candidates. These new 'G' based S-Flex sound exactly like what I am needing. I will then keep my San Ace on my TRUE and EXHAUST and my Zalman on the internal fan to cool my PCI area. With the Zalman being sleeved however I will probably end up replacing it with an S-Flex G as well if it holds up well.

[roofsniper]

im planning on getting 3 zm-f3s for my radiator and i see they run at .35A each. they would run at 4.2W each and all 3 would be 12.6W. i was planning on putting all three onto one channel but i wanted to use a fan controller. my scythe kaze master does up to 1A on each channel so thats only 12W. close. so i thought hey i would use one of my fan mate 2s but then i notice they are only 6W each. anyone know a really cheap fan controller i could get to control a single channel that would allow at least 13W on that channel?

[zepper]

C'mon Vapor, don't keep us waiting on tenterhooks...

.bh.

[Battle_Rattle]

I just had to try the Sanyo 1011's.... im tired of my front blue LED fan (Aerocool turbine) and I want some swifter movement across the bottom of my TJ-07.

Will corroborate with subjective thoughts (bought a fan resistor just in case lmao)

www.subzeropcs.com

Reseller rating looks good

[cablesguy]

C'mon Vapor, don't keep us waiting on tenterhooks...

.bh.

maybe vapor was vaporised

jk jk

[Vapor]

I haven't even started official testing. Maybe tonight...finally got the test setup finalized and should have some free time to get working on it. Won't be quick though

But I'll have a small preview this time.

[Skauneboy]

im planning on getting 3 zm-f3s for my radiator and i see they run at .35A each. they would run at 4.2W each and all 3 would be 12.6W. i was planning on putting all three onto one channel but i wanted to use a fan controller. my scythe kaze master does up to 1A on each channel so thats only 12W. close. so i thought hey i would use one of my fan mate 2s but then i notice they are only 6W each. anyone know a really cheap fan controller i could get to control a single channel that would allow at least 13W on that channel?

Sunbeam make some nice fan controllers:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811998808
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811995017

I have the older 20W version and have been running three Yate Loon Mediums on one channel for a year now without problems. Only downside is the SUPER bright LED's.

[LuckyNV]

Sunbeam make some nice fan controllers:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811998808
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811995017

I have the older 20W version and have been running three Yate Loon Mediums on one channel for a year now without problems. Only downside is the SUPER bright LED's.

I have the Sunbeam extreme, very nice controller, maybe not the best looking though. a comment on the LEDs, they are not piercing bright as the LED lights up the whole knob, but it is still a room illuminater

[RealTelstar]

I realy like my Scythe Kaze Master, it has no frills nor bugs and looks great.

http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/ac...01_detail.html

[Vapor]

Who...maybe....wants a preview of some the 'big player' 50CFM fans in a couple hours?

Very interesting results from them....so glad I'm testing more variables now than I used to