My Dual Harper - Asus Z7S WS living review *56K warning*

[neveroffline]

Never had an issue doing it the way I detailed.

And I do have a Z7S-WS.. in the mail.

I for one would love to see a pic of that installation. XEON Z7S HEATSINK Backplate sticky tape stuck to back of mb and not the case/chassis. Instant no boot as it is a steel backplate.

Anyways, yeah, would love to see that pic - with the system on. Good luck with that doode. Wow, and close to 15k posts. It's a small world I guess.

[neveroffline]

Yeah, no sense in putting the sticky side towards the mobo.

I rest my "case". Thanks man for chiming in.

[STEvil]

You can ask nicely you know, its generally a good idea to start with and an even better idea when its a mod you're being a jerk to.

Now to address your concerns yes you would need an insulating material between the backplate and the motherboard assuming there are SMD's or SMR's or other protrusions including but not limited to capacitors, chokes, mosfets and etc which are not ground(ed).

I'll be sure to put up some detailed pictures of what I do for you.

[neveroffline]

Sorry boss, I'll await the pics, but I won't be mounting my heatsinks any differently until I hear from you. Remember I'm the one who had the issues with EMI when running in the case vertical and I sent that Z7S back.

No offense meant at all, honestly I didn't see your post count till afterwards.

[STEvil]

EMI will cause POST issues.. most of the time you can tell it is EMI by a single "_" at the top left of the screen or when you attempt to enter the BIOS the screen will be entirely blue with no options. At least every board i've seen that issue on has had those symptoms.

What might be the issue is this:


If you look closely you can see the standoff is being pushed to one side of the hole and the screw which holds the heatsink in may be digging into the motherboard causing a short in one of the layers if they are too close to the hole. It might not cause a problem when set down (all the weight is vertical) but once tipped up it might cause enough movement to short something where the screw is digging in.

Check to see that there are no extra standoffs in your case under the motherboard as well. I have a couple cases that have them and on many boards they would cause a shorting issue without being removed or insulated. Usually the "extras" that i've found tend to be between the IO plate and the expansion card bracket (back center of the board).

[neveroffline]

EMI will cause POST issues.. most of the time you can tell it is EMI by a single "_" at the top left of the screen or when you attempt to enter the BIOS the screen will be entirely blue with no options. At least every board i've seen that issue on has had those symptoms.

What might be the issue is this:


If you look closely you can see the standoff is being pushed to one side of the hole and the screw which holds the heatsink in may be digging into the motherboard causing a short in one of the layers if they are too close to the hole. It might not cause a problem when set down (all the weight is vertical) but once tipped up it might cause enough movement to short something where the screw is digging in.

Check to see that there are no extra standoffs in your case under the motherboard as well. I have a couple cases that have them and on many boards they would cause a shorting issue without being removed or insulated. Usually the "extras" that i've found tend to be between the IO plate and the expansion card bracket (back center of the board).

Thank you so much. Yeah something was doing it, but I had no clue as to what/where nor did I have any electrical tape handy (yeah, bad idea).

I plan on covering the backplates with a layer, the closest solder joints (pcie's, fbdimms, power ins, etc), and the brass standoffs just to be safe. You gave me another idea though, to wrap the heatsinks, the outer pins to the mb/case where the screws go in, those standoffs in tape which might prevent the issue you showed which could clearly happen. Really I have no idea what caused it all, but it upset me enough to RMA the board as many, many others I talked to had no such issues with the same board (albeit bios issues).

I will keep you all posted here for sure, on Monday. I was overnighted the MB today and won't get here till Monday...yay weekends. Shrug.

Just so I start off on the right foot, is covering the brass standoffs with an X of electrical tape a good idea for starters as ASUS told me to do?

Oh, and on the short/ground - there was no post/screen at all, the diagnostic card showed 08,07,FF, shut off and with the slightest tap would reboot and do the same over and over.

Thanks again.

EDIT: I am using the stock cooling/heatsinks for my 5410's with the supplied backplates from the Z7S attached to my case with the sticky tape (they don't move).

[jcool]

EMI will cause POST issues.. most of the time you can tell it is EMI by a single "_" at the top left of the screen or when you attempt to enter the BIOS the screen will be entirely blue with no options. At least every board i've seen that issue on has had those symptoms.

What might be the issue is this:
...
If you look closely you can see the standoff is being pushed to one side of the hole and the screw which holds the heatsink in may be digging into the motherboard causing a short in one of the layers if they are too close to the hole. It might not cause a problem when set down (all the weight is vertical) but once tipped up it might cause enough movement to short something where the screw is digging in.

Check to see that there are no extra standoffs in your case under the motherboard as well. I have a couple cases that have them and on many boards they would cause a shorting issue without being removed or insulated. Usually the "extras" that i've found tend to be between the IO plate and the expansion card bracket (back center of the board).

Like I said, this setup is only intended for mobos lying flat. I ran it this way for 3 weeks w/o an issue. Using the stock heatsinks, you won't have to modify the NB and you won't have that problem with the non-centered HSF mountings either, so I don't think this could cause EMI...

[STEvil]

No, thats not causing EMI (Electromagnetic Interference)

EMI and RFI are basically just electrical noise. Magnetic, Radio, etc. Completely separate from grounding issues.

Also not knocking your method jcool, just pointing out what could have happened to neveroffline He's not using the same heatsinks though so unlikely.

[jcool]

Hey, this was my initial just-for-the-table method, and it sucks (as in not working) when mounted upright, so I know it's no good really.
Just never ever had any issues with EMI myself, nor do I know anyone that did.

[neveroffline]

Hey, this was my initial just-for-the-table method, and it sucks (as in not working) when mounted upright, so I know it's no good really.
Just never ever had any issues with EMI myself, nor do I know anyone that did.

Neither have I, and I've built my own systems since 1992. It was very clear to me there was a short/grounding/emi however since it ran fine on it's side, could leave it on, move it to vertical and instantly see the vertical post issue 08, 07, FF - over and over again. Soon as it got half way vertical to 90% vertical it happened. I'm just not sure where on the board back it was happening.

I think to be safe I'm going to follow ASUS' advice and cover the standoffs, as well as the highest solder points on the back of the board with electrical tape. Since I am using the backplates with the rubber pads, I'm also going to cover the under sides of the board where the cpus are with tape. I'm not sure what else to do if I experience the same issues. Heres to hoping that I don't.

[milkmandan]

Hmm....
seems like people still have their Asus Z7S rig up and running.

I've been thinking about building one myself because of this thread. You convinced me jcool, you really should ask Asus for some compensation!

I am NOT a computer wizz that knows absolutely everything and can take a pencil to OC a video card, so I am here seeking help to get a very good computer build with the Asus Z7S mobo.

I am looking to build a workstation machine around the Intel 5400(skulltrail) chipset.

Before anything, is the Asus Z7S WS the same as the Intel Skulltrail mobo? Or are there major differences? I am just talking about the chipset, not the fact that one has PCIe1.1 and the other has PCIe2.0.

[Jaco]

Welcome Milkmandan !

Big advantage of Intel Skulltrail : you can use socket 775 coolers on that board. Also bios has vcore control and memory timings which the Asus Z7S lacks...

Skulltrail has a loud SB heatsink/fan . The Asus on the other hand is silent.

[milkmandan]

Welcome Milkmandan !

Big advantage of Intel Skulltrail : you can use socket 775 coolers on that board. Also bios has vcore control and memory timings which the Asus Z7S lacks...

Skulltrail has a loud SB heatsink/fan . The Asus on the other hand is silent.

Thank you [XC] Jaco!

Ahh i see...

I don't plan on overclocking too much. I am not much of an OC enthusiast, so not tweaking with memory timings or the vcore is not much of a loss to me. Unless I should be tweaking with memory timings with this board.

I did see Jcool get his asus rig xeons OCed a little bit?

Plus I plan on using water cooling for this. I've found some 771 blocks, so I think i am okay. Then again I might not be.

--
As an engineer and web designer I do a lot of CAD work as well as circuit design. I do 3d modeling, a lot of video editing, and motion graphics as a hobby/side job. I want to build a machine that can handle what I do easily.

I am an occasional gamer as well, so this machine should be able to handle some high end games. I don't need crazy MAX settings, but something above average and I am more than happy.

This will be my first hardcore computer dual socket cpu build, so advice, suggestions and comments are ALL welcome.

Would not having the ability to tweak with vcore settings or memory timings be a loss to me? Considering what I want to do with it.
I know the Asus z7s is aimed towards workstation, and the intel skulltral is aimed at gaming, is one better than the other?

[Jaco]

Would not having the ability to tweak with vcore settings or memory timings be a loss to me? Considering what I want to do with it.

No loss at all.
Not sure which board is the best , I have the Asus Z7S and am very happy with it. Works flawlessly , very stable , excellent board for a "beginner"

Also the Skulltrail supports SLI (and crossfire) , Z7S only crossfire .

[milkmandan]

No loss at all.
Not sure which board is the best , I have the Asus Z7S and am very happy with it. Works flawlessly , very stable , excellent board for a "beginner"

Also the Skulltrail supports SLI (and crossfire) , Z7S only crossfire .

[XC] Jaco you've been extremely helpful
Thanks..I guess i got another question if you dont mind.

I am choosing not to use Intel skulltrail for cost reasons and I am going with the Asus Z7S for now.

I've seen many other boards with the Intel 5400 chipset as well (Supermicro, TYAN) and I was wondering....are those boards comparable, or better than the Asus Z7S or the Intel Skulltrail?

[Jaco]

Supermicro have great boards. Dave (Movieman) is using the SM X7DWAN
Tyan, only this one is interesting : http://www.tyan.com/product_board_detail.aspx?pid=560
The only Tyan board to support 1600FSB cpu's.
But I doubt that will be cheaper.
Don't know if those boards have good audio onboard ?
The Asus Z7S is also ATX format . But only 6 dimm slots - close to eachother.

[milkmandan]

oh wow, now i am getting confused as to if I should even use the Asus Z7S board. :\
Tyan and Supermicro seem to have produced some good boards as well. But aren't they clocked towards severs? And not really towards workstation and or gaming (even though they have pcie2.0)? I hoping to OC my Xeons a little bit. Do the Tyan and/or Supermicro boards have memory timing/vcore tweaks as well?

The eATX boards do not bother me :\ I am planning to use the MM UFO, so space shouldn't be an issue.

[Jaco]

Only Z7S and skulltrail have OC options.

Get the Asus Z7S WS board

[jcool]

Hey milkmandan,

I agree with jaco, get the Z7S WS. It is far more suited for your task when compared to Skulltrail. I dare say it in here, the Z7S is also more mature than the Skulltrail, since I keep reading about people having ram/vga card/whatnot issues with Skulltrail.
Also very suited for a "beginner" like Jaco said, can't do much wrong as long as you update to current bios first

Anyway, here is what you do (buy ):

- 2x E5420 or E5430, depens on what you want to spend
- Z7S WS
- 2 or 4 2GB DDR2-800 FBDimm sticks, depends on whether you need 8GB (I'd recommend it though). Note that you need special ram that runs rather hot (fully buffered dimms).
- 2x EK Supreme for CPU cooling. They work flawlessly with the mobo, you use the supplied metal-frame backplates (NOT the ones you see on page 1) then you can use the normal mounting supplied with the coolers
- one HR-05 IFX + 80MM fan for cooling the NB (it will get too hot with stock cooling and waterblocks on the CPUs)
- Fan to cool the mems
- GFX card matching your preferences, there are some great new cards launched today, but if you don't need the best of the best, get a single HD3870 or a HD3870X2. You can add another one later for a Crossfire setup
- PSU: Get a Corsair HX620 as it will be strong enough for your initial setup, if you plan on going Crossfire soon get something in the 750W range, but don't forget you need an EPS capable PSU (8pin AND 4pin 12V connectors)

You can then OC the FSB from 333 to 400, which gives you 8*3Ghz or 8*3,2Ghz depending on the CPUs you buy. My E5420's run at FSB 430 which is 3225Mhz all day every day, but you need to have some luck with that. FSB 400 will almost always work though.

Let me know if you have any other questions

[alucasa]

oh wow, now i am getting confused as to if I should even use the Asus Z7S board. :\
Tyan and Supermicro seem to have produced some good boards as well. But aren't they clocked towards severs? And not really towards workstation and or gaming (even though they have pcie2.0)? I hoping to OC my Xeons a little bit. Do the Tyan and/or Supermicro boards have memory timing/vcore tweaks as well?

The eATX boards do not bother me :\ I am planning to use the MM UFO, so space shouldn't be an issue.

Tyan and Supermicro produces sever / workstation boards. Their BIOS will have no OCing options at all.

Since I didn't care for OC, I got the mATX dual socket board ( X7DCA-L ) which cost me 285CAD, which is about half price of the Asus board.
It also uses registered ram which is a lot cheaper. (Got 2 sticks of 2gb for 110 USD)

If your budget is limited (like I was), it is possible to build a dual socket rig for under 1100 USD.

[milkmandan]

Wow the response in here has been extremely helpful~

Hey milkmandan,

I agree with jaco, get the Z7S WS. It is far more suited for your task when compared to Skulltrail. I dare say it in here, the Z7S is also more mature than the Skulltrail, since I keep reading about people having ram/vga card/whatnot issues with Skulltrail.
Also very suited for a "beginner" like Jaco said, can't do much wrong as long as you update to current bios first

Anyway, here is what you do (buy ):

- 2x E5420 or E5430, depens on what you want to spend
- Z7S WS
- 2 or 4 2GB DDR2-800 FBDimm sticks, depends on whether you need 8GB (I'd recommend it though). Note that you need special ram that runs rather hot (fully buffered dimms).
- 2x EK Supreme for CPU cooling. They work flawlessly with the mobo, you use the supplied metal-frame backplates (NOT the ones you see on page 1) then you can use the normal mounting supplied with the coolers
- one HR-05 IFX + 80MM fan for cooling the NB (it will get too hot with stock cooling and waterblocks on the CPUs)
- Fan to cool the mems
- GFX card matching your preferences, there are some great new cards launched today, but if you don't need the best of the best, get a single HD3870 or a HD3870X2. You can add another one later for a Crossfire setup
- PSU: Get a Corsair HX620 as it will be strong enough for your initial setup, if you plan on going Crossfire soon get something in the 750W range, but don't forget you need an EPS capable PSU (8pin AND 4pin 12V connectors)

You can then OC the FSB from 333 to 400, which gives you 8*3Ghz or 8*3,2Ghz depending on the CPUs you buy. My E5420's run at FSB 430 which is 3225Mhz all day every day, but you need to have some luck with that. FSB 400 will almost always work though.

Let me know if you have any other questions

Thanks for the suggestion jcool. I will definitely follow your suggestions.

Couple questions:
1) FB-DIMM DDR-800s is there a specific brand/model you recommend? (I had these picked out http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148189)
Only 6 slots for RAM, I will fill up with 8GB (4 slots). Do i need to get ones without a heat spreader and can fit together in slots 1,2,3 and 4?

2) "2x EK Supreme for CPU cooling ... then you can use the normal mounting supplied with the coolers" - What do you mean by supplied metal-frame backplates? The ones with the EK Supreme? Normal mounting supplied with the coolers?

I apologize for this question, I don't know much about water cooling except for the fact that you need a block, tubing, nozzles, radiators and a pump.

3) HR-05 IFX - Where does it go exactly? Will i need to be removing any current heatsinks on the board?

4) Do you have a recommendation for the RAM coolers? Any particular model?

[alucasa]

Backplate looks something like this :



Socket 771 is installed directly into motherboard tray. Therefore, originally only chassis designed for socket 771 format can take socket 771 motherboards.
Above backplate came with Supermicro box. But you must remember that Tyan boards do NOT come with backplates !

Backplate eliminates the need for specially designed sever chassis.

If you are going to buy the ASUS board, it will come with a RAM slot cooler, so don't worry about it.

Below is an aftermarket backplate which I bought.

By alucasa at 2008-06-16

[milkmandan]

Backplate looks something like this :



Socket 771 is installed directly into motherboard tray. Therefore, originally only chassis designed for socket 771 format can take socket 771 motherboards.

Backplate eliminates this.

If you are going to by the ASUS board, it will come with a RAM slot cooler, so don't worry about it.

Ohhh i understand now.
SInce i am buying the mobo from newegg. i heard it didn't come with a RAM cooler, i guess i'll get the mobo first and see if i need a RAM cooler.

[alucasa]

From my first hand experience, FBDimm will go over 90c if you don't cool it.
However, they will work fine. It seems they've been designed to work in such hot temp.
But then, if you plan to OC, that's a different story. You will want your RAM to be as cool as possible.

Some Lian Li cases come with fans on side where it is often directed to RAM position *since server motherboard layouts are quite different from consumer motherboards'*. You could take advantage of that.

[jcool]

Wow the response in here has been extremely helpful~



Thanks for the suggestion jcool. I will definitely follow your suggestions.

Couple questions:
1) FB-DIMM DDR-800s is there a specific brand/model you recommend? (I had these picked out http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148189)
Only 6 slots for RAM, I will fill up with 8GB (4 slots). Do i need to get ones without a heat spreader and can fit together in slots 1,2,3 and 4?

Yes, these mems look just fine. All FBDimms have heatspraders, but some are designed for MacPro and therefore have huge ones that won't fit the Z7S WS. Using 4 of these crucials will be fine though. Remember to use the 1st, 3rd, 5th and 6th slot counting from the northbridge (CPU) side, only then can you use the QuadChannel feature.

2) "2x EK Supreme for CPU cooling ... then you can use the normal mounting supplied with the coolers" - What do you mean by supplied metal-frame backplates? The ones with the EK Supreme? Normal mounting supplied with the coolers?

No, these backplates are supplied with the mobo as an alternative to the ones I used initially. They are basically just a metal frame but they will stabilize the mobo like a backplate does. You just clip them in under each socket, then use the bolt-through mounting of the EK Supreme. You won't need an aftermarket backplate as shown by Alucasa, even though that might be needed for other coolers.
Where did you get that Alucasa? Might be interesting to use with air coolers.

3) HR-05 IFX - Where does it go exactly? Will i need to be removing any current heatsinks on the board?

As I said it will go on the northbridge, and yes you need to remove the stock NB heatsink before. That's the one I had to modify to fit the Thermalrights, see post #1.

4) Do you have a recommendation for the RAM coolers? Any particular model?

Well, not really. There is an active ramcooler by OCZ that should fit, no guarantees though. Any fan will do really, also depends on your case etc.

From my first hand experience, FBDimm will go over 90c if you don't cool it.
However, they will work fine. It seems they've been designed to work in such hot temp.
But then, if you plan to OC, that's a different story. You will want your RAM to be as cool as possible.

Well, that's not entirely true... FBDimms will run at 90C and above, but they clock themselves down to prevent overheating, resulting in a perfomance decrese. I don't know how the Z7S acts with overheating memory, but I suggest not to test your luck.