ATI Radeon HD 4000 Series discussion

[natty]

If your hardware can manage it, you can do 120fps with those hdtv's. An LCD hdtv is basically a big LCD monitor anyways. I like to think about how nice vsync would look at 120fps vs. 60 fps.

I don't think that's true. There's a reason you don't see any of those 120hz lcd's marketed as computer monitors. I think it's some kind of gimmick for television viewing, not a true 120hz.

[perkam]

Let's not go OT over the FPS thing. Yes 61 fps vs 120 fps isn't all that different, but a card that can render 120 fps will have a much higher minimum frame rate, and thus a lower probability of lag in high poly situations (explosions, etc).

As for the 4870, ofcourse it won't beat the GTX 260. If it did it would be $449 as well. It is, instead, $329 and is meant to compete with the 9800GTX and the 9900GTX (G92b) that will be released this summer as well.

Only the 4870X2 is competing with the GTX 260 and 280. Remember that the D10U architecture will not be available in the mainstream market until it moves to 55nm, which won't happen till 2009, as the G92b's will be released for that segment this summer.

Perkam

[Eastcoasthandle]

If your hardware can manage it, you can do 120fps with those hdtv's. An LCD hdtv is basically a big LCD monitor anyways. I like to think about how nice vsync would look at 120fps vs. 60 fps.

Hmm do video cards actually support this yet? If not it will be made available in a future GPU so no worries there.

[bill_d]

a movie in a movie theater is what 24 fps

[Metroid]

Those are hdtv's. I don't think you can get an actual 120fps in computer games with those, can you?

For example, most movie projectors advance from one frame to the next 24 times each second. But each frame is illuminated twice or three times before the next frame is projected using a shutter in front of its lamp. As a result, the movie projector runs at 24 frames per second, but has a 48 or 72 Hz refresh rate.

When LCD shutter glasses are used for stereo displays, the effective refresh rate is halved, because each eye needs a separate picture. For this reason, it is usually recommended to use a display capable of at least 120 Hz, but 200 Hz is optimal. Unfortunately most monitors cannot handle this rate, especially at higher resolutions.

While common multisync CRT computer monitors have been capable of running at even multiples of 24 Hz since the early '90s, recent "120Hz" LCD displays have been produced for the purpose of having smoother, more fluid motion. As 120 is an even mutiple of 24, it is possible to present a 24frame/s sequence without Judder on a well-designed 120 Hz display. If the 120 Hz rate is produced by frame-doubling a 60frame/s 3:2 pulldown signal, the uneven motion could still be visible.

Source

120Hz =! 120 FPS. That means that the monitor will be refreshed at a double rate and the only visible benefit you will see will be when you go the mirror and see that your eyes are still healthy after hours using the computer.

So even if they launch a 240Hz means 4 x 60 = 2 x 120 = 240Hz.

a movie in a movie theater is what 24 fps

It depends it varies to 24 to 30 frames per second, with this monitor they can create movies at 60 FPS.

Metroid.

[Eastcoasthandle]

a movie in a movie theater is what 24 fps

I'm not sure if all movie theaters use it or not. I am sure that Imax type of theaters do. From what I've understood 24p to mean is that it compliments fast moving objects with less micro blocking, stuttering, and artificial blur. It's not something you would care for in drama type movies. It's something you can see here and there in action type movies. However, it's something you really, really, really want in sport events. This is my understanding of it. This is were places like the AVS forums come into play. They really give you the low down on stuff like this. Check their HDTV and home theater sub forums on the subject.

[natty]

Source

120Hz =! 120 FPS. That means that the monitor will be refreshed at a double rate and the only visible benefit you will see will be when you go the mirror and see that your eyes are still healthy after hours using the computer.

So even if they launch a 240Hz means 4 x 60 = 2 x 120 = 240Hz.



It depends it varies to 24 to 30 frames per second, with this monitor they can create movies at 60 FPS.

Metroid.

Thank you. I knew there was a reason those were labeled 'hdtv' and not 'monitor'

[Monkeywoman]

"While we are away for Computex, CJ let us know that the Radeon HD 4870 X2 R700 prototype card is out and it beats the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 280 in 3DMark Vantage. The R700 card is basically made up of two RV770 GPUs with 2x256-bit memory interface to either GDDR3 or GDDR5 memories. We asked our sources about R700 in Computex and apparently AMD is going to let AIB partners to decide the specs themselves. Therefore, the partners will set their own clock speeds, PCB design, memory types, cooler solutions etc. and there will be Radeon HD 4850 X2 and 4870 X2 cards differentiate by the memory type. The R700 card apparently doing pretty well at this stage scoring about X5500 in 3DMark Vantage Extreme preset while the GeForce GTX 280 card is scoring X4800."-vr-zone

[Eastcoasthandle]

"While we are away for Computex, CJ let us know that the Radeon HD 4870 X2 R700 prototype card is out and it beats the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 280 in 3DMark Vantage. The R700 card is basically made up of two RV770 GPUs with 2x256-bit memory interface to either GDDR3 or GDDR5 memories. We asked our sources about R700 in Computex and apparently AMD is going to let AIB partners to decide the specs themselves. Therefore, the partners will set their own clock speeds, PCB design, memory types, cooler solutions etc. and there will be Radeon HD 4850 X2 and 4870 X2 cards differentiate by the memory type. The R700 card apparently doing pretty well at this stage scoring about X5500 in 3DMark Vantage Extreme preset while the GeForce GTX 280 card is scoring X4800."-vr-zone

This will be hilarious if true because "some made claims" that the 4870 ans X2 did poorly in vantage to begin with.

[Mk]

sorry posted to late

[Chickenfeed]

If the 4870 X2 scales as effieciently as claimed ( with the new crossover chip), I could see it out do the GTX 280. I'm still not passing judgment until I see official benchmarks however. So much info flying around right now and its not even always that consistent.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

I want a 4870 so bad! i have cash set aside and all, i guess now all i have to do is watch and wait (and obsessively search e-tailers for them in stock :P) they could release them faster i think :roll:

[003]

"While we are away for Computex, CJ let us know that the Radeon HD 4870 X2 R700 prototype card is out and it beats the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 280 in 3DMark Vantage. The R700 card is basically made up of two RV770 GPUs with 2x256-bit memory interface to either GDDR3 or GDDR5 memories. We asked our sources about R700 in Computex and apparently AMD is going to let AIB partners to decide the specs themselves. Therefore, the partners will set their own clock speeds, PCB design, memory types, cooler solutions etc. and there will be Radeon HD 4850 X2 and 4870 X2 cards differentiate by the memory type. The R700 card apparently doing pretty well at this stage scoring about X5500 in 3DMark Vantage Extreme preset while the GeForce GTX 280 card is scoring X4800."-vr-zone

If that is really true (and I hope it is), nvidia =

I am going to get dual 4870X2s for quad CFX. That should be some serious horsepower right there.

[ANP !!!]

Cant wait for the 4870X2 goddammit , when does the NDA gets lifted ??

[annihilat0r]

Multi-GPU is a sack of , don't let its numbers fool you, the FPS you see in 9800GX2, 3870x2 and any SLI/CF system IS NOT REAL and IS ABSOLUTELY NOT COMPARABLE to a single-GPU system.

Do some research before you blow $600 on a graphics solution.

[Hornet331]

Multi-GPU is a sack of , don't let its numbers fool you, the FPS you see in 9800GX2, 3870x2 and any SLI/CF system IS NOT REAL and IS ABSOLUTELY NOT COMPARABLE to a single-GPU system.

Do some research before you blow $600 on a graphics solution.

magical R700 X2 will fix that.

[SimBy]

magical R700 X2 will fix that.

Why are you so sure about it?

EDIT: never mind I guess you were j/k.

[Hornet331]

Why are you so sure about it?

EDIT: never mind I guess you were j/k.

yes it was meant to be sarcastic.


i strongly doubt we anything else then CF on board for the X2.

[largon]

My guess is R700 has a built-in PCIe 2.0 intercore interface connecting the two chip carriers without any external bridgechips.
That would allow higher efficiency onboard CF.

[Tim]

My guess is R700 has a built-in PCIe 2.0 intercore interface connecting the two chip carriers without any external bridgechips.
That would allow higher efficiency onboard CF.

By the time R700 comes out nVidia does a GX2 trick on AMD.

Nevertheless, if that is true, it's very impressive from AMD indeed. Good for them.

[STaRGaZeR]

My guess is R700 has a built-in PCIe 2.0 intercore interface connecting the two chip carriers without any external bridgechips.
That would allow higher efficiency onboard CF.

But still CF onboard using AFR, exactly the same as the 3870X2. Sorry but no. This should help ATI's ego.

"We have a card capable of rendering 500 frames per second. It looks like it's only rendering 250, but who cares, the only thing that matters for reviews is numbers. We win."

[Hornet331]

But still CF onboard using AFR, exactly the same as the 3870X2. Sorry but no. This should help ATI's ego.

"We have a card capable of rendering 500 frames per second. It looks like it's only rendering 250, but who cares, the only thing that matters for reviews is numbers. We win."

exactly, thats why i go with the strongest singel card/singel gpu solution.

[[XC] hipno650]

to be honest im not really convinced by this whole microstuddering thing. like it makes sense but why is has this only came up in the last half a year?? why did no one comment about it back with the 6800ultra SLI days??? it has all seem to come out of no were and most of it seems to be focused about the HD3870x2 and windows Vista. is this new or has it always been a mutil GPU problem? and if it has always been there why did no one bring up up for years? also why are all the big names (magazines and review sites) not talking about it and still continuing to use SLI and CF systems in there "dream machines" and whatnot.

[GAR]

to be honest im not really convinced by this whole microstuddering thing. like it makes sense but why is has this only came up in the last half a year?? why did no one comment about it back with the 6800ultra SLI days??? it has all seem to come out of no were and most of it seems to be focused about the HD3870x2 and windows Vista. is this new or has it always been a mutil GPU problem? and if it has always been there why did no one bring up up for years? also why are all the big names (magazines and review sites) not talking about it and still continuing to use SLI and CF systems in there "dream machines" and whatnot.

Ive had various SLi systems and i can agree with the micro stuttering, it does exist.

[STaRGaZeR]

I can only speak about my CF experience, which is limited to 3870CF. The cards are dirty cheap, so CF is a possibility. Such thing was not possible before because of prices. You can now say CF for the masses, it's obvious the more people having it the more people complaining about its problems. The main problem is not CF o SLI, the problem is AFR and the way it's handled by today's drivers.