ATI Radeon HD 4000 Series discussion

[Psitech]

When does the nda end? I've yet to see a date specified.

[Nuker_]

I want somebody to break the NDA as I said, you sacrifice one so that the rest of the team gets satisfied.

[Genius_pt]

I want somebody to break the NDA as I said, you sacrifice one so that the rest of the team gets satisfied.

Well I won't ask that. But at least someone with one of this cards could tell something like: "you'll like what you're gonna see" or "don't get to high expectations"

[Nuker_]

Yeah, some people here have been at the nV convention and some probably already have it. So they should at least give a perf. hint.

[ownage]

Catalyst 8.6

[GAR]

Yeah, some people here have been at the nV convention and some probably already have it. So they should at least give a perf. hint.

from a few people that i know who have the card say its a monster indeed, lets just say its about 25%-50% faster than a 9800GX2 and its a single chip.

[003]

from a few people that i know who have the card say its a monster indeed, lets just say its about 25%-50% faster than a 9800GX2 and its a single chip.

Do you mean a single 4870, and not a 4870X2, is 25-50% faster than a 9800GX2? If that is really true, ATI may have a real winner here.

[ownage]

I want somebody to break the NDA as I said, you sacrifice one so that the rest of the team gets satisfied.

Latest rumours: nVidia score are pretty much reliable ATI's score less at this moment.

Vantage Xtreme settings, 1920*1200+4aa+16af

GTX 280 = X4098
GTX 260 = X3782
9800GX2 = 3608
HD4870XT = X2595
HD3870X2 =2582
8800ULTRA = 2.403
HD4850PRO = X1981
HD3870 = X1440

Just rumours. I think we'll see more benchmarks soon.
Don't shoot the messenger!

[AliG]

Its all about the drivers GAR, if ati can get the drivers right, it won't matter that its a dual chip card and will perform as if it was a single chip. If they don't, then quite simple the card will have little or no advantage over the 4870 in various instances (including games where sli/xfire isn't supported (well)).


I wish people would stop making such a fuss over single vs dual chip as WE DON'T HAVE ANY REAL NUMBERS YET. Once we do, you guys can go at it all you like and no one will have a problem with it

[AliG]

Latest rumours: nVidia score are pretty much reliable ATI's score less at this moment.
GTX 280 = X4098
GTX 260 = X3782
9800GX2 = 3608
HD4870XT = X2595
HD3870X2 =2582
8800ULTRA = 2.403
HD4850PRO = X1981
HD3870 = 1440HD4850PRO = X1981

Just rumours. I think we'll see more benchmarks soon.
Don't shoot the messenger!

I don't the 4870 results are legit (though gt200 ones probably are) because we're talking about 50% more shaders and double the texture power, the increase should be far more than 25% (over the 3870) for such a high level of detail.


Also 3dmark vantage definitely seems to suit nvidia cards far better than ati cards, and its not a game so I don't really think 3dmark vantage is a good representative of what games will show. However, if the gtx 280 spanks the 4870x2 results by a large margin in 3dmark 06 which is favors the r600 cards, then its safe to say the gtx 280 will be the undisputed king for benching and probably games too.

[ownage]

I don't the 4870 results are legit (though gt200 ones probably are) because we're talking about 50% more shaders and double the texture power, the increase should be far more than 25% (over the 3870) for such a high level of detail.

Why not? The HD4870 score seems more then logic. HD4870 seems to be 80% faster then the HD3870. It was rumoured the HD4870 would be 50% faster in overall performance, but the HD4870 has far better AA performance, so 80% doesn't seems wrong to me.

[Helmore]

Oh and AliG it says the 3870 scores 1440 while the 4870 does 2595.
Oh well, I won't make any conclusions about their performance until the cards are officially released.

[NH|Delph1]

Current ATI drivers suck in Vantage, AMD is working on it

//Andreas

[SimBy]

Latest rumours: nVidia score are pretty much reliable ATI's score less at this moment.

Vantage Xtreme settings, 1920*1200+4aa+16af

GTX 280 = X4098
GTX 260 = X3782
9800GX2 = 3608
HD4870XT = X2595
HD3870X2 =2582
8800ULTRA = 2.403
HD4850PRO = X1981
HD3870 = X1440

Just rumours. I think we'll see more benchmarks soon.
Don't shoot the messenger!

Kinda what I expected for ATI but definitely below expectations as far as GTX 280 goes!

What this means is that X2 from ATI would probably win against GTX 280. Since 3870X2 is almost 80% faster than 3870 we can assume 4870X2 to get around X4600 points! Way above GTX 280.

[ownage]

Kinda what I expected for ATI but definitely below expectations as far as GTX 280 goes!

What this means is that X2 from ATI would probably win against GTX 280. Since 3870X2 is almost 80% faster than 3870 we can assume 4870X2 to get around X4600 points! Way above GTX 2800.

Why? 1 GPU smacks 2 GX2 GPU's to the ground. Not bad I would say. I know people always hope for more power, but seriously, if the GTX-280 is really this fast, then nVidia did a real good job.

[SimBy]

Why? 1 GPU smacks 2 GX2 GPU's to the ground. Not bad I would say. I know people always hope for more power, but seriously, if the GTX-280 is really this fast, then nVidia did a real good job.

Ofcourse it's fast, problem is I think most fanboys expected much faster. And I don't think those numbers for GT200 are true. I think they are higher than that.

[Nuker_]

Why? 1 GPU smacks 2 GX2 GPU's to the ground. Not bad I would say. I know people always hope for more power, but seriously, if the GTX-280 is really this fast, then nVidia did a real good job.

It should be like 8800GTX vs 7950GX2 but even more in favor of the GTX because nV has said that this time the preformance increase will be greater than previously.

[Shintai]

It should be like 8800GTX vs 7950GX2 but even more in favor of the GTX because nV has said that this time the preformance increase will be greater than previously.

Unless they talk about 8800GTX->9800GTX

[003]

Unless they talk about 8800GTX->9800GTX

They specifically said something along the lines of:

"The transition to the GTX280 from the 9800GX2 will make the transition from the 7800GTX to the 8800GTX look like peanuts by comparison"

I hope that holds true.

[Nuker_]

They specifically said something along the lines of:

"The transition to the GTX280 from the 9800GX2 will make the transition from the 7800GTX to the 8800GTX look like peanuts by comparison"

I hope that holds true.

That sounds tasty! But I'll take it with a grain (or a mountain) of salt because the transistion from 7800GTX to 8800GTX is like four times better performance for 8800, which is impossible at the moment unless nvidia has done something magical to increase performance.

[Scimitar]

I don't the 4870 results are legit (though gt200 ones probably are) because we're talking about 50% more shaders and double the texture power, the increase should be far more than 25% (over the 3870) for such a high level of detail.

Remember that the shader clock on the 4870 is rumored to be 1,050 MHz (200 MHz over the core clock). When you take this into account, the 4870 has (in theory) twice the shader power of the 3870, not 50% more.

[zerazax]

They specifically said something along the lines of:

"The transition to the GTX280 from the 9800GX2 will make the transition from the 7800GTX to the 8800GTX look like peanuts by comparison"

I hope that holds true.

That wasn't anything Nvidia said specifically IIRC. It was what some website at the event said, so take it with a grain of salt since it wasn't directly from Nvidia's mouth.

And anyways, the numbers are more correct if you compare it to say G80/G92 but not 9800GX2 which is clearly faster than the single GPU offerings of that generation by a good amount

[zerazax]

Latest rumours: nVidia score are pretty much reliable ATI's score less at this moment.

Vantage Xtreme settings, 1920*1200+4aa+16af

GTX 280 = X4098
GTX 260 = X3782
9800GX2 = 3608
HD4870XT = X2595
HD3870X2 =2582
8800ULTRA = 2.403
HD4850PRO = X1981
HD3870 = X1440

Just rumours. I think we'll see more benchmarks soon.
Don't shoot the messenger!

Hmm, those scores look pretty good for the 4870XT. Just a bit faster than the HD3870X2 (as many said it would be comparable) and much faster than the 3870. And with that amount of AA and AF, looks like they fixed a lot of the AA and AF issues. Plus, if ATI cars in Vantage aren't doing so well and can increase in performance once fixed, it will certainly be a good % faster than the Ultra, which at those settings still beats 9800GTX. So it's in line with the idea that the 4870XT is ~20-30% faster than the 9800GTX.

HD4850PRO looks like a great deal at its price range too.

Hopefully those GTX280 scores will be higher, but at the same time, in synthetic tests, dual GPU cards tend to be more optimized than real-world performance would indicate.

[ownage]

Yes, but remember the GT200 scores or from a reliable source, the RV770 scores not. It wouldn't surprise me we will see real benchmarks within a week.

[zerazax]

Yes, but remember the GT200 scores or from a reliable source, the RV770 scores not. It wouldn't surprise me we will see real benchmarks within a week.

Right, and I hope we get a few benchies soon. Those numbers certainly seem more reliable than any other source we've had at the moment