Real Temp - New temp program for Intel Core processors

[Richard Dower]

We're upto 2.55.1?

[clokker]

DessertPerson,
You have to edit the .ini file and tell it how many cores to display.
Just open the file and it'll tell you what to do.

[SiGfever]

Bug? displaying only one core temp in the taskbar.
Vista Ultimate x64 SP1

Have you edited the "ini" file to reflect four cores?

";IconShow= lets you determine what core temperatures will show up in the
;tool tray area. The following values can be combined so you can display
;whatever core or cores you wish to see.
; core0 = 1, core1 = 2, core2 = 4, core3 = 8
;To display core1 and core2 only, you would add 2 + 4 and set IconShow=6
;IconShow=0 would show no cores in the Tool Tray. To show all 4 cores of
;a Quad core processor in the tool tray you would add up all of the factors
; (1 + 2 + 4 + 8 = 15) so you would need to use IconShow=15
IconShow=15"

[XtremeTiramisu]

Wow, this explains why I've never bothered open up the RealTemp.ini configuration settings file.
Now all four cores are showing in the taskbar after one simple change of the IconShow value from original 1 to 15.


To Unclewebb: I'd like to suggest that we can have access to the configuration settings by creating a tab under Real Temp, from a novice programmer/user's perspective.
Something like similar user interface that's shown in the tab under Core Temp

[unclewebb]

Guys, Can anyone tell me where the entire explanation in the start post went?

I'm probably the best guy to answer that question. I moved everything over to the TechPowerUp website so it's easy to go there and read about RealTemp and to download the latest stable version. So far, I've been keeping the beta versions separate.

If you open up RealTemp and right click on the title bar and select the About... menu option and click on the TechPowerUp logo, you should end up at the TechPowerUp / RealTemp website. Scroll half way down that page and in BIG letters is a heading called Documentation

After that it shows a link called Installation & Calibration Page. There is also a link to the download section on the main page.

Too many users came to this forum and were asking the most basic questions without having read the documentation in the first post. Everything is in one place now so there are no excuses and I also don't have to update the docs in multiple different locations. If you are beta testing you will have to read through this XS thread a little or look in the INI file to see what changes have happened.

Has anyone modified a font yet with the software I mentioned last night and got it working in RealTemp? With small fonts that have to fit into a 8x16 area for each digit, it is sometimes easier to create your own font so you get just what you want to see.

XtremeTiramisu: Your idea has already reached the top of my things to do list. I plan to create a second page within RealTemp for editing the settings. Editing INI files is too much like Windows 95! If there were 2 of me all this stuff would get done much sooner. The plan has always been Accuracy -> Usable for XS type users -> Usable for Everyone without having to read or think too much.

Richard Dower: Is it possible to "jazz up" the window design?...make it more Vista-ish?...transparency etc?

I'm only using Visual C++ 6.0 so there's not too much I can do without a lot of additional coding. I'll leave that to the open source world when I lose interest in RealTemp.

Talonman: I'll put you down for one for the RTFont. It's very simple and legible and it's easy enough to edit any digit if you aren't happy.

[Talonman]

For sure...

I stand ready to test your next release!

[tuksonrider]

I read the doc, and I get the TJmax offsets (1=+5c, -1=-5C etc)

But what of the Idle variables?
For the Idlen= x, How many degress does x offset it? (Does Idle0=1 = +1C?, Idle0=2 = +2C...?)

[unclewebb]

For the Idlen= x, How many degress does x offset it? (Does Idle0=1 = +1C?, Idle0=2 = +2C...?)

The number of degrees of adjustment provided by the Idle calibration settings is variable depending on your processor and how far away you are from TjMax. Read the documentation at:

www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/docs.php

and it explains what sort of calibration you should be using so that your idle temperatures are neither below your room temperature nor significantly above it. After you've done the low MHz / low voltage test, if you are still not sure just send me a PM with your data and I'll have a look at it.

[Talonman]

One might say you are just trying to keep your temps "Real".

[unclewebb]

For those that hate to edit INI files, there is hope on the horizon.

The all new Settings window is a little crude at the moment but it should provide access to all of the important RealTemp settings and you'll never have to edit an INI file again.



This is the rough layout. Next you hook up the buttons so they actually do something. After that you put the booze down so you can get everything to line up and look nice and then it will be time for some more beta testing at XS.

[emoners]

waaahhh RealTemp just gets BETTER & BETTER!!!

[XtremeTiramisu]

Nice, I didn't expect the setting button to be avaliable so soon. A job well done thus far

[graysky]

Can you put the link to the beta version on the 1st post of this thread? I know it's buried in here somewhere, but I'm too tired to dig.

[Richard Dower]

2.55.1:http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip

[Milamber]

This thread is just growing and growing!!

Real Temp is great and it's also good that the community have seen this hard work and really valued in helping out with testing

On a side note, those with E8500's which doesn't appear to be many from what i can tell, what idle calibration are you using?

[colt1911]

2.55.1:http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip

I tried this download and when I install it the program says it's missing the WinRingO.dll file. Then says to reinstall to fix but it still doesn't work. Just wondering if any one else had this problem.

[Talonman]

You have to use the WinRing0 files from your previous install. I've noticed they aren't included with the beta versions.

I asked too.

The WinRing files you need are included with the latest official version. You copy them into the BETA directory.

WinRing0.dll
WinRing0.lib
WinRing0.sys
WinRing0.vxd
WinRing0x64.dll
WinRing0x64.lib
WinRing0x64.sys

These are the names or the files you are looking for, to copy into your BETA Real Temp directory.

[XtremeTiramisu]

Or what I did was just unzip all beta realtemp related files into realtemp 2.5 folder that contains the WinRing0 files. Copy and replace existing files is the command and that works for me too.
But Talonman's method is technically correct.

[lazy]

Maybe I missed the post but is Real Temp more accurate then Everest and Coretemp?
All this time ive been using Everest and Coretemp, then I download this program and the temps
show 5-6 degrees lower.

[Demo]

Maybe I missed the post but is Real Temp more accurate then Everest and Coretemp?
All this time ive been using Everest and Coretemp, then I download this program and the temps
show 5-6 degrees lower.

Your username isnt there for show only... ( sorry had to say that )

Read pages 1 to 40, the answer is there

[fgw]

Maybe I missed the post but is Real Temp more accurate then Everest and Coretemp?
All this time ive been using Everest and Coretemp, then I download this program and the temps
show 5-6 degrees lower.

originally, posted this over at the liquid cooling forum as a response to the question whats the difference between coretemp and realtemp but moved it over here as i think it fits in here better.
uncleweb, correct me where i wrong! also i would like to know how you defined compensation in realtemp: at what deltas start your compensation and by how many degrees are you compensating for your various settings ...

ok. finally here is my sight of things:

CoreTemp (Everest, ...) vs. RealTemp

both programs are using the very same method of getting temperature readings from the processor:

they read out the DTS (digital thermal sensor) located within each core. this sensors can be read via a certain registers. the value read from this register reflects a temperature relative to an unknown threshold. to calculate absolute temperatures from this readings, you simply subtract the DTS value from this threshold:

absolute tempreature = threshold - DTS

i said unknown because intel so far did not make this threshold public for desktop and server processors, though you can find this threshold in mobile processor datasheets, but of course, valid for mobile processors only. on mobile processors this threshold corresponds to tjuncnction max. on desktops its tcc activation threshold.
no matter if you call this threshold tjmax, tjunction or tcc activation. its always the very same threshold!

because intel never made this threshold value public, all programs using this method of reading temperatures have to assume this threshold. to make things even worse, this threshold value is calibrated during manufacturing on a per part basis. e.g. while one e8400 could have a certain threshold value calibrated into it, another e8400 (still the same stepping) could use a threshold value may be one or even a few degrees different.

intel did not implement this sensors to help overclockers getting accurate temps from the processors. this sensors main reason was to start throttling as soon as the processor reaches the set threshold and shut the processor down as the temps rise a certain amount higher. another use of this sensors was to allow system designers to control the fanspeed in order to keep noise as low as possible while maintaining healthy temps. may be thats the reason why this sensors are not working completely linear and intel focused on very high accuracy near or above tcc activation temperature, lets call it operating point, and not at lower temps.

afaik, the author of coretemp assumes for desktop processors the same threshold values as specified in the corresponding mobile processors datasheet. simply said 65nm desktops get the same value as 65nm mobiles. of course there are some exceptions eg. quad cores. but thats mainly how it works. because the sensors are not completely linear, coretemp read sometimes impossible temperatures for some processors, temps below ambient temp during idle! this lead to the wrong conclusion, the threshold was to low for this particular processor and thus was raised for certain processors resulting in higher temperature readings during idle but also too high readings during load.

on the other hand, the author of realtemp decided to do his own temp measurements and figured out, the DTS readings from the register are not linear over the whole temperature range and thus came to some different thresholds than the ones used in coretemp. as explained above, intel seems to calibrate the sensors near their operating point which is the point where throttling gets activated and is somewhere above 90C (varies from processor to processor). readings below that might be off, even more as the readings are further away from this operating point. thus, the author of realtemp implemented a compensation for this nonlinear behavior of the sensors.

if you use the same threshold value (tjmax) in both programs AND disable the compensation in realtemp, both programs (coretemp and realtemp) will read the same temperatures!

you can go with the one or the other program, but because of the compensation feature offered by realtemp, realtemp might be closer to reality throughout the whole temperature range than coretemp. but its up to you to calibrate the program to your processor especially the compensation feature.

[Fritzz]

^^^^^^^^ What he said!!! I think I will point new users that pose this exact question to this exact post. Well Put!!!

[unclewebb]

fgw: unclewebb, correct me where i wrong! also i would like to know how you defined compensation in realtemp: at what deltas start your compensation and by how many degrees are you compensating for your various settings ...

I can't give away my secret compensation formula, at least not yet. I want to see the competition squirm a little bit more first! The formula is dead simple and any cracker should be able to figure it out in a few minutes of searching through some code. Who will win that challenge?

Milamber: I agree. The testers at XS have really helped shape RealTemp into a decent temp program. I can't wait to finish the Settings feature so it will be simpler for everyone to use. Unfortunately the wife thinks this is a good weekend to paint the house. They never understand. The Settings window needs to go on a diet before it is ready for testing, hopefully before next weekend.

Edit: The house is done and the new Settings window in RealTemp made a trip to the gym and lost some flab. The display part is working good so now I just have to complete the code to allow editing within the Settings window and find or create a GUI so users can pick colors for their tray fonts. It's almost ready for a fresh beta and the next major release will follow soon after.

[tuksonrider]

The number of degrees of adjustment provided by the Idle calibration settings is variable depending on your processor and how far away you are from TjMax. Read the documentation at:

www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/docs.php

and it explains what sort of calibration you should be using so that your idle temperatures are neither below your room temperature nor significantly above it. After you've done the low MHz / low voltage test, if you are still not sure just send me a PM with your data and I'll have a look at it.

Thanks for the answer!

I look forward to using this app!

[unclewebb]

We have color! RealTemp is moving forward and the new Settings window is almost ready for a beta release.