ATI Radeon HD 4000 Series discussion

[Genius_pt]

Hmm, maybe 800sp with 256bits gddr5 . It would justify the almost 35% larger die.

[v_rr]

35% larger die size.

Trasistor count could be bigger if they use newer 55nm process that TSMC have.

[Helmore]

35% larger die size.

Transistor count could be bigger if they use newer 55nm process that TSMC have.

Which they are using, at least according to all current rumors and they do make sense.
I'd say this would bring the the transistor count to 900-1000 million transistors (0,9-1 billion). An 33,3% increase in die size would yield 890 million transistors for the chip if it still used the RV670's process, but the newer process might improve upon this.

[AliG]

hmm, that may be possible, but still, 800 shaders, that would mean the r700 will run hot as hell, even on 45nm 1600 shaders would run hot

[v_rr]

An 33,3% increase in die size would yield 890 million transistors for the chip if it still used the RV670's process, but the newer process might improve upon this.

The exact value is 34.7%~35% = 900M transistores in the same manufacturing 55nm.

If they use the new 55nm process from TSMC the transistor count can go to 1000M transistors.
They can also remove some redundant parts to increase yields of RV670.

They have very space do increase specs. 480SP + 32TMU + 256bit + improved caches, z-bufferring and so on.

[Eastcoasthandle]

Read this

Highlights:

...Yes, we know, we previously said that the 4800 series would launch in May, but as it stands right now, we won’t be seeing the first new cards until mid-June. According To AMD’s current introduction schedule, the Radeon 4800 series will launch in week 25, which puts the day of the introduction somewhere between June 15 and June 22. What is significant about this time frame is that ATI will trail Nvidia and their new high-end chip GT200...

ATI's Radeon 4800 series will be introduced in three flavors - as 4850, 4870 and 4870 X2. The company will also offer a “4850 256MB” (as opposed to 512 MB in other versions), but this SKU is a so-called "option" and is geared towards to the OEM/ODM/SI crowd to support them with cheaper parts for the back-to-school period and beyond...

AMD will follow up in July and launch the Radeon 4870 512 MB GDDR5 and the 4870 X2 1024 MB GDDR5 (R700). The Radeon 4870 chip is built onto a board codenamed “Trojan” (could be named after a condom brand or a horse; we pick the latter) and comes with a dual-slot cooler, following the tradition of earlier XX70 boards. Our previous information about the memory buffer was a bit inaccurate, since the cost of Qimonda's GDDR5 memory apparently was not compatible with the targeted pricing of these cards...

In terms of performance, we heard some interesting claims. A 4870 should perform on par with or better than a dual-chip 3870 X2. Our sources explained to us that using a PCIe Gen1 controller 3870 X2 was a mistake, since the board was hungry for data and didn't sync well with this interface. Don’t expect the ATI team to repeat that mistake with the 4870 X2. However, we admit that we have no idea what kind of connection two RV770 GPUs will have...

What surprises us is that the manufacturer is highlighting a "Game physics processing capability" in its launch materials. Since ATI didn't bid for Havok (which ended up in Intel’s lap) and Nvidia snapped up PhysX we wonder who provides a physics engine for ATI. Perhaps the company took a completely different direction and it simply expanded its GPGPU capabilities from professional FireStream cards to the desktop.

What surprises us is that the manufacturer is highlighting a "Game physics processing capability" in its launch materials. Since ATI didn't bid for Havok (which ended up in Intel’s lap) and Nvidia snapped up PhysX we wonder who provides a physics engine for ATI. Perhaps the company took a completely different direction and it simply expanded its GPGPU capabilities from professional FireStream cards to the desktop.

Every aspect of the GPU is monitored by PowerPlay, since ATI will be very aggressive on the power side: The boards have been designed with power in mind and the 4850/4870 won't require 8+6-pin combinations (exception: The dual-GPU 4870 X2). Power supply requirements call for a 450 watt unit for a single card and a 550 watt version for two cards. Given the fact that ATI has to state this for PoS power supplies, CrossFire should do just fine with a top notch 400 watt power supply...

AMD decided to remain aggressive in an effort to win back market share. Pricing is actually set to a point where Nvidia is unlikely to be able to compete (that is at least what somebody is hoping for). Pricing guidelines are not finalized at this time, but according to several sources, the Radeon 4850 will succeed the 3850 512MB and should cost about $189-$219 at launch. Our sources indicated that 4870 GDDR5 cards will cost between $249 and $279, but somehow we feel that AMD might aim go for $199 and $249 at launch.

source

[AliG]

I'd like to know what they mean by they were wrong about the memory buffer, that could hint towards 512 bit memory or just that they had something else wrong

[STaRGaZeR]

Launch in May uh? Sure

[AliG]

Launch in May uh? Sure

who knows it could be an uber paper launch, and be announced may 29th and then "launched" may 30th and finally not show up until its june 1st of 09

[Nedjo]

If 256mm2 is true its plausible for: 320SP + 480SP= 800SP IMO

if this true, and if this true: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=262

than AMD will have extreme manufacturing advance, and will have no problem in making profitable Dual-GPU cards...

[Macadamia]

hmm, that may be possible, but still, 800 shaders, that would mean the r700 will run hot as hell, even on 45nm 1600 shaders would run hot

I don't think you can compare it to RV670 with a straight face.
It's probably a better, more optimized 55nm with better optimization too.

Plus, the XT *does* have a big cooler and all. The Pro should have lesser clocks.

It could probably be compared with the stillborn "A13" RV670.

[fireice2]

4870 > = 3870 X2? Sweet!

Especially if its priced at $249 at launch.

[NH|Delph1]

He's not far off for once Theo.

//Andreas

[STaRGaZeR]

I don't think 800SPs + 32TMUs will fit in that die... That was just a rumour.

[whocaresbg]

96 complex shaders need additional transistor count of ~200 M, which that means a total number will be more than 890-900 M .

[Origin_Unknown]

july for the 4870x2 with gddr5

[Eastcoasthandle]

vr-zone

AMD has just confirmed the marketing name for RV770 yesterday which is no surprise to anyone, the Radeon HD 4800 series. RV770PRO is Radeon HD 4850, RV770XT is Radeon HD 4870 and R700 is Radeon HD 4870 X2. AMD will be shipping RV770 GPUs to AIB by end of this month and you can expect different card designs from the manufacturers at launch. AMD is set to launch the Radeon HD 4850 on June 18th and it is definitely a hard one with retail availability on the same day. Radeon HD 4870, however, will be launched a week later on June 25th with retail availability in July due to GDDR5 availability. Radeon HD 4870 X2 will come later in Q3. As for the clocks, we won't be revealing them yet but the RV770XT core clock is not going anywhere above 800MHz.

[Monkeywoman]

so the core clock stays below 800 MHz, shader clock goes above?

[STaRGaZeR]

LOL where is that 1000+MHz core now

[bowman]

LOL where is that 1000+MHz core now

That was a previewer overclock, apparently.

The report was considering how far previewers had gotten it.

[AliG]

vr-zone

anyone still want to prove to me that 1600 shaders won't be too hot


I'm 99% certain we're going to see 480 shaders, only reason I can think about for below 800mhz stock clock is because of heat issues (or tdp). But I wouldn't be surprised if we see oc versions going above 900mhz

[Mungri]

I'm going to have to make do with a 3870 for a while longer then

I am still tempted to just buy a second 3870 as always, but the 4870 is looking really promising.

[MAS]

I am still tempted to just buy a second 3870 as always, but the 4870 is looking really promising.

3870 and 4870 will be working side by side due to hybrid crossfire

[AliG]

nope, do you have any proof? Do the 3870 and 2600xt work together? No. That's because hybrid xfire works only within its family, and the 4870 is in the 48xx family, and very different from 3870 (which to point out the 3870 and 2900xt are basically the same card and thus same family and the 3870 would probably lag down the 4870 meaning uneaven gameplay even if it would work)

[madcho]

The real count is 999M of transitors.