Fuzion V2 base is not the same as V1

[Martinm210]

FYI,
Just got done putting some calipers to use on the V1 and V2 side by side.

Total Base Thickness
V1=.220"
V2=.200" (Also machined on the top a little)

Pin Height
V1=.160"
V2=.150"

Base thickness left
V1=.060"
V2=.050"

I think there have been more than cosmetic top changes going on here..

This is likely the reason the pressure drop results for V2 are more restrictive than the V1 with washer only. The pins are shorter, so that means a smaller cross section for the water to flow through, but on the posotive it means higher velocity/turbulence/heat transfer.

Time to do some pressure drop testing and thermal testing..

[smee]

oO nice!

That would somewhat explain why I got much better temps... Looking forward to your testing though!

[madmaxx]

how does shorter pins increase restriction?

[Martinm210]

how does shorter pins increase restriction?

If you add up the cross sectional area the water can flow through the pins, it's proportional to the height of the pins.

It's a little complicated to measure with triangular shaped pins, but for example (This is not right, but a simpler way to look at it).

If the gap was .160" tall by .050" wide, the area between pins would be .160x.050 = .008 square inches per gap.

Reducing that height to .150" would give you .150 x .050 = .0075 square inches.

Shorter pin height means a smaller sectional area. This is less wetted area for heat transfer overall, but it forces higher velocities overall and particularly closer to the base where it's most important. I think there is a careful balance between which is more important, more velocity close to the base or more area further from the base. Obviously the new fuzion was designed very slightly shorter, and also with a very slightly thinner base as optimizations in the net result.

[adpr_02]

I've always wondered whether sanding the bottom of a block (thus reducing the distance that heat travels to the wet area) would increase it's efficiency...

[biftek.]

I've always wondered whether sanding the bottom of a block (thus reducing the distance that heat travels to the wet area) would increase it's efficiency...

Not by much, I know some one tried lapping a CPU to the die and got hardly any difference in temps from a "standard" lap, I think it might have been martin who did that actually...

Dont think it would be much different than lapping a block in the same manner.

[adpr_02]

REALLY? I was planning on doing that.

The plan was to sell the Apogee GT I currently have, get myself a Fuzion V2 and sand that way down, as well as sand my cpu a lot more than it is now (it's just lapped)........


I guess I have to re-consider that...

[Martinm210]

I didn't go all the way down, but when I was trying to make my own block, after getting a good pin matrix and top done, I tried milling the base down thinner and temperatures went up.

In the end I think it's another one of those balancing things.

A thicker base allows "Distribution", so a nice thick base will allow the heat to spread out and get cooled by a larger number of the pins. The downside to the thicker base is that even copper itself only transfers heat so fast. So thicker is a bit more insulating as well.

A thinner base doesn't distribute the heat as well over more pins, but it has less insulating from the core.

In the end, I think it's a balance depending on if the block has nozzles that focus cooling over the cores or not and the type of matrix. It also probably depends on the type of processor and how spread out the heat footprint is.

All I know is thinner is not ALWAYS better, but it does seem to do well when combined with nozzles.

[adpr_02]

Martinm, I see what you mean. Good point. I'm probably just going to stick with the fuzion stock, then. I'm guessing its designers know better.

I knwo this is off topic, but how did you get the 120.2 to fit in the armor? I only have room for 2 120.3 radiators (with the top drilled out). Do you have any pictures of your build? I'm interrested in adding a few more pumps in my system, as well.

[MadMan007]

How can you tell whether a given Fuzion is v1 or v2? *nevermind, I see some places list it differently plus it looks quite a bit different, also comes with a backplate now so no promount kit needed. blah. How much of a difference does it make over the v1?

[Martinm210]

How can you tell whether a given Fuzion is v1 or v2? *nevermind, I see some places list it differently plus it looks quite a bit different, also comes with a backplate now so no promount kit needed. blah. How much of a difference does it make over the v1?

I just started testing mine today. Pressure drop testing was done with all of the nozzles, they are a bit more restrictive on the bottom end, but again my results are a little lower than D-Teks published curve. After I get 5 mounts of the stock setup thermal testing done, I'll publish a webpage on my results and post it here too.

[tiro_uspsss]

FYI,
Just got done putting some calipers to use on the V1 and V2 side by side.

Total Base Thickness
V1=.220"
V2=.200" (Also machined on the top a little)

Pin Height
V1=.160"
V2=.150"

Base thickness left
V1=.060"
V2=.050"

I think there have been more than cosmetic top changes going on here..

good find!

funny, I remember some big know-it-all saying they are exactly alike (in another thread that is)

[Janno]

good find!

funny, I remember some big know-it-all saying they are exactly alike (in another thread that is)

but they do look alike...
tell me, if you just received a new block, you were exited and all, would you seriously start measuring it inch by inch?

[tiro_uspsss]

but they do look alike...
tell me, if you just received a new block, you were exited and all, would you seriously start measuring it inch by inch?

if I got the right tool(s), sure u not?
of course it wouldnt be the *first* thing I do! but I would definitely do it!

[kinghong1970]

but they do look alike...
tell me, if you just received a new block, you were exited and all, would you seriously start measuring it inch by inch?

perhpas that's what distinguishes the Xtreme Addict from the hobbyists...?

[Martinm210]

but they do look alike...
tell me, if you just received a new block, you were exited and all, would you seriously start measuring it inch by inch?

Heck no, it's got to be to the nearest .001"...

No, after seeing the pressure drop curves between the V1 plus washer and V2, I figured there had to be more to it than just the top. The bases look the same from a distance, but that's what calipers are for..

The V1 has been out long enough, I'm sure D-Tek has had plenty of time tinkering with small changes and optimizations. They are also very performance based folks, no fancy marketing or pointing fingers, all their effort has been improving their own product.

That gets a in my book.

[Brave758]

Heck no, it's got to be to the nearest .001"...

come on us engineers here do at least to the nearest .0001" .

On a more serious note good work man ill be looking forward to see the full results, keep up the great work

[anubis_is_evil]

FYI,
Just got done putting some calipers to use on the V1 and V2 side by side.

Total Base Thickness
V1=.220"
V2=.200" (Also machined on the top a little)

Pin Height
V1=.160"
V2=.150"

Base thickness left
V1=.060"
V2=.050"

I think there have been more than cosmetic top changes going on here..

This is likely the reason the pressure drop results for V2 are more restrictive than the V1 with washer only. The pins are shorter, so that means a smaller cross section for the water to flow through, but on the posotive it means higher velocity/turbulence/heat transfer.

Time to do some pressure drop testing and thermal testing..

nice review Martinm210....

damm i just bought the fuzion v1 should i replace ?

btw did you tested it with nozzle kit ?

thx

[smee]

good find!

funny, I remember some big know-it-all saying they are exactly alike (in another thread that is)

Haha, that was ME!!!

Except, I didn't think that they would have changed the thickness or anything, and I don't have the right tools to messure that..... and I'm not a big know-it-all either.



Good work Martin!!!!!

P.s. I'm also doing testing with the stock V2 right now, 5 mounts and everything this time, the load testing will be 10 minute warm up then 30 minute recorded load test.
So it'll be nice to compare results with someone!!
Thanks for all the help yesterday too!

[I34z1k]

@ Smee glad you're getting thorough.

@Martin... So now the question is... This or the xspc?

[smee]

@ Smee glad you're getting thorough.

@Martin... So now the question is... This or the xspc?

Thanks, yea it's going to be tough, but I'll manage...

So as far as Martin's testing goes, the XSPC beats the fuzion v1 right?

This is going to be fun!

[I34z1k]

And the v2 I believe... Not sure though.

[Snyxxx]

come on us engineers here do at least to the nearest .0001" .

How does an engineer chop a log in half?

Calculate where to cut the log to three decimal places.
Locate the cut with a tape measure.
Marks the cut with a piece of chalk.
Cuts with an axe.

[Martinm210]

How does an engineer chop a log in half?

Calculate where to cut the log to three decimal places.
Locate the cut with a tape measure.
Marks the cut with a piece of chalk.
Cuts with an axe.

You forgot to mention the need to know:

Type of wood
Bark or no bark
Moisture content
Diameter
Carbon content of axe blade
Angle of axe blade

Then...just before the swing, the environmental folks would show up and shut me down as usual..

Darn endangered beetles or something I overlooked..

What migratory bird act?..

[Martinm210]

I'll reserve my results for the end, but the V2 is looking like a really good improvement over my V1 results..