Micron D9 and high voltage, electromigration effects

**saaya** · 04-26-2008, 05:04 PM

i think gkx has a lower chance of dieing from higher vdimm since its the better chips. easy as that. there is no big difference, but a chip that isnt bonded perfectly, or has some slight flaw in the silicon already, that might later break or degrade with high vdimm is more likely to fail microns gkx bin, than a chip that is percectly fine.

but that difference is small, i dont think there is really a notable difference in what vdimm gmh and gkx chips can take...

and about high vdimm, well hes ONLY using 2.1v... so?
after killing one stick, fine... after killing 2 sticks... weird... killing 3 sticks and not realizing that whatever im doing, something is wrong, and most likely the voltage is too high is just... i cant understand it...

killing 6 sticks before realizing that a certain voltage is too much is a long learning curve

**stuck** · 05-04-2008, 09:53 PM

950@3-3-3-3-2T@2.6V

After that the memos won't boot with v < 2.0V, the time pass and pass and i got my new E8400, oced to 500x9 (4500mhz) with 1000@4-4-4-4-2T@2.4V, at this moment i feel happy with my pc and memos but after that, i try to push my crucial ballistix tracer PC8500 at 1000@3-3-3-3-2T@2.8V, after that 1 memo survive and boot with 2.2V, the other memo won't boot with any V, in this week i buy a pack of DCH Mushkin HP2 6400 996603 12-4-4-4-2T@1.9V and i try to send my ballistix to RMA, greetings from chile...

**Buckster** · 05-04-2008, 11:37 PM

well as an update to my earlier post that my 2nd set of Ballistix had died and Crucial provided single sided stuff which was even worse !!]

anyway .... got OCZ HPC Reaper instead now .. 2x2gb and that does 1035 MHz CAS5 - @ 1.9V, and 1140 @ 2.1V

nice not having to use high voltages anymore - so sticking at the 1.9V

life after Ballistix

**zsamz_** · 05-05-2008, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Buckster

well as an update to my earlier post that my 2nd set of Ballistix had died and Crucial provided single sided stuff which was even worse !!]

anyway .... got OCZ HPC Reaper instead now .. 2x2gb and that does 1035 MHz CAS5 - @ 1.9V, and 1140 @ 2.1V

nice not having to use high voltages anymore - so sticking at the 1.9V

life after Ballistix

god help crucial if they ever rma me a bad kit

**KanGaXx** · 05-05-2008, 12:12 AM

lol i burned my 2x1 gb kit crucial pc8500 5-5-5-18 @ 1200 5-5-5-12 default voltage....
before that overclock memtest was ok, after that massss errorrrrsss lool omg rma ^_*

**Buckster** · 05-05-2008, 12:13 AM

bit off-topic but I had 4x1gb of nice dual sided 8500 Ballistix

RMA'd one pair got a single sided pair back

.... wouldn't even post at 870 CAS5 !! .... 2.15V ! lol I think I managed 840 CAS5 .. and then 10 seconnds into Memtest ... monitor turned off and PC emitted beep...beep..beep..beep - no memory signal. Finally got all 4 working at 700 MHz CAS5 !! lol. Tested them on their own and couldn't even get close to 1000 CAS5 even at 2.25V !

contacted crucial and they were more than willing to RMA again (costs to send to them again though !!) - but when I asked for dual sided (none left in UK apparently) as I thought they were incompatible to be used dual sided with single sided at same time on same mobo ... they basically said "not our problem"

what RAM ICs the new single sided stuff use I don't know - but sure ain't D9 Micron ... and I feel cheated that I've now lost 1 pair of decent RAM and its been repalced with something far far cheaper

**Buckster** · 05-05-2008, 12:16 AM

bit off-topic but I had 4x1gb of nice dual sided 8500 Ballistix - wasn't exercising it hard .. I think 1100 @ 2.15V and 850 CAS4 at 2.1V

RMA'd one pair got a single sided pair back

.... wouldn't even post at 870 CAS5 !! .... 2.15V ! lol I think I managed 840 CAS5 .. and then 10 seconnds into Memtest ... monitor turned off and PC emitted beep...beep..beep..beep - no memory signal. Finally got all 4 working at 700 MHz CAS5 !! lol. Tested them on their own and couldn't even get close to 1000 CAS5 even at 2.25V !

contacted crucial and they were more than willing to RMA again (costs to send to them again though !!) - but when I asked for dual sided (none left in UK apparently) as I thought they were incompatible to be used dual sided with single sided at same time on same mobo ... they basically said "not our problem"

what RAM ICs the new single sided stuff use I don't know - but sure ain't D9 Micron ... and I feel cheated that I've now lost 1 pair of decent RAM and its been repalced with something far far cheaper

**zsamz_** · 05-05-2008, 01:00 PM

thats why i keepin my ballistix in da box nice n safe
they come out to play only when needed

run em till they die
they will send you a better kit sooner or later lol
some of those new crap chips doin good

**DMH** · 05-05-2008, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Buckster

bit off-topic but I had 4x1gb of nice dual sided 8500 Ballistix - wasn't exercising it hard .. I think 1100 @ 2.15V and 850 CAS4 at 2.1V

RMA'd one pair got a single sided pair back

.... wouldn't even post at 870 CAS5 !! .... 2.15V ! lol I think I managed 840 CAS5 .. and then 10 seconnds into Memtest ... monitor turned off and PC emitted beep...beep..beep..beep - no memory signal. Finally got all 4 working at 700 MHz CAS5 !! lol. Tested them on their own and couldn't even get close to 1000 CAS5 even at 2.25V !

contacted crucial and they were more than willing to RMA again (costs to send to them again though !!) - but when I asked for dual sided (none left in UK apparently) as I thought they were incompatible to be used dual sided with single sided at same time on same mobo ... they basically said "not our problem"

what RAM ICs the new single sided stuff use I don't know - but sure ain't D9 Micron ... and I feel cheated that I've now lost 1 pair of decent RAM and its been repalced with something far far cheaper

I believe they are using some new 78nm Promos I guess(or are they Micron??

)

**zsamz_** · 05-05-2008, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by DMH

I believe they are using some new 78nm Promos I guess(or are they Micron??

)

promos dont die like that
i can clock promos past 1060mhz

**saaya** · 05-06-2008, 04:02 AM

guys... crucial is a division of micron! :P
they sure as hell wont be using memory chips from anybody except for micron

and yes, micron keeps playing with different chip designs and some of them SUCK big time

**cadaveca** · 05-06-2008, 06:37 AM

Oh, Saaya....Crucial sells samsung -based sticks too, they just sent me some this month as an RMA return for some ballistix..I did open a thread about 'em. Crucial label on one end of DIMM, samsung on the other.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=184449

**saaya** · 05-06-2008, 08:40 AM

whhaaaaa? really?

thats like intel-relabelling amd cpus

**cadaveca** · 05-06-2008, 08:55 AM

Yeah..I was shocked...more so becuase of Samsung...of all ICs...when I saw Samsung sticker...and Crucial sticker...but Samsung pcb...

**saaya** · 05-06-2008, 09:04 AM

man, id keep that stick in a glass frame on my wall or something

thats def a collectors item! just like the amd cpu with an intel logo on it

**cadaveca** · 05-06-2008, 09:20 AM

lol. Unfortunately not a collector item..standard stock for them for PC6400 "Crucial" product line now. Maybe somethingto do with changing fabs...

http://www.crucial.com/store/partspe...2KIT12864AA800

I think the CL7 1.8v pc8500 might be samsung based as well.

Hopefully these DIMMS won't die like regualr crucial sticks..maybe they figured out the problem...them!

**saaya** · 05-06-2008, 09:49 AM

well atm its mass production, just like the intel/amd marked cpus used to be

in some years those sticks of mem will be rare i tell ya!

**mad_skills** · 05-06-2008, 10:09 AM

Sayaa is changing professions, he isn't playing with ram anymore, he is making a collection of weird ones.

**saaya** · 05-06-2008, 01:59 PM

hehehe, well i had a really really weird one once...
it had Winbond CH-6 chips on it.
They scaled... extremely weird...
the weirdest memory chips i ever worked with...

imagine a sinus curve with the center axe going up with an angle of lets say 20%
And thats how it scaled, the x axis beeing vdimm and the y axis beeing the memory speed.

so, more vdimm gained me a few mhz, more, didnt gain, more lost me some mhz, more gained me again, more didnt gain, more lost me some mhz again... etc etc... but the higher i went i did gain mhz overall... but just... in a very weird way

i also had a very special kit.
Twinmos PC3700 DDR433 with BH5 chips!
I never heard of anybody else using this memory or any notes about it online or anything...
I even talked to a twinmos employee and he never heard of it either...

maybe it was fake idk... but it had a twinmos holographic sticker on it...

i gave both kits away to a friend some time ago...
i kinda regret it now

enough ot :P
so it seems some chips die at even 1.9v vdimm now...
this sounds like the smaller the mfg process is the more sensitive the chips get to vdimm... which makes sense...

think about it... the first ddr2 was made in the same mfg process as ddr1, and it could take almost the same volts as that ddr1 too!
the first ddr3 was made in the same process as ddr2, and it also could take roughly the same volts the ddr2 could take.

coincidence? sounds to me like mfg process has a lot to do with how many volts chips can take...

**Kasparz** · 05-06-2008, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by saaya

whhaaaaa? really?

thats like intel-relabelling amd cpus

You haven't seen dark side of IT industry, don't you?
I've seen even more scary rebranding.

**saaya** · 05-06-2008, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by Kasparz

You haven't seen dark side of IT industry, don't you?
I've seen even more scary rebranding.

well yeah, sure... from shady companies maybe... but micron?

thats something i really didnt expect...

**RealTelstar** · 05-07-2008, 02:46 AM

After asking for refund they shipped immediately my rma. will see what i get. they'll be for sale anyway.

**cadaveca** · 05-07-2008, 08:08 AM

It will either be 8FE5 or 8FE4 you get back.

. Even the pc5300's are 8FE4. Crucial really no longer has double-sided Micron-based DIMMs. The fabs are gone, there will be no more other than those few sticks left in "mom and pop" pc shops.

I've yet to hear about widespread 8FE5 or 8FE4 deaths...

**RealTelstar** · 05-07-2008, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by cadaveca

It will either be 8FE5 or 8FE4 you get back.

. Even the pc5300's are 8FE4. Crucial really no longer has double-sided Micron-based DIMMs. The fabs are gone, there will be no more other than those few sticks left in "mom and pop" pc shops.

I've yet to hear about widespread 8FE5 or 8FE4 deaths...

Yes, they are 8fe5, pc-8500 so it says.

Sent yesterday, got today. At least UPS is still good. Ready to sell

**Mordorr** · 05-19-2008, 10:22 AM

Hello.

I did buy 2G from Mushkin 8500 2G.

They are D9 Micron Chips.

I bought them in August 2007, running 24/7, with 2.2V, at 440 FSB 1:1, on my Asus PK5-E....

3 Months ago, i star to have problems in games, and finally, after runing Prime 95, i discovery, that one of the modules was defective, failing the Prime 95, at any voltage and timming....

I did RMA, at the store, here in Portugal.......

Sorry the OFF, but.....SHAME on Mushkin RMA here in Europe/Portugal...

No product stock, and i can`t get back my money!!!

Glory days, of DDR 1.....

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