DFI problems

[adya]

tiro, these companies want u to believe u have no rights and they can rip u off when ever they want . But its not true, we do have rights.I dont have experience with dfi support, but i have experienced the kind of consumer support available from other manufactures, and its always been pretty bad here in australia. (no replies to emails,and if they do there either rude or they ignore the problem at hand.)
i had to go threw small claims court to get asus and my retailer to refund my money. turns out it was the retailers responsiblity, so they finally paid up! after months of them refusing to pay.they were forced to.
bulldog , if it takes the retailer and manufacturer months to refund/repair or replace the expensive damaged boards they sell us. then maybe they should look at other ways of honouring there warranty. or atleast reply to our emails now and then. what if it was the other way around , and we only paid half the amount owed for the products we purchase? these companies would have us in court very quickly.

[Bulldog14]

tiro, these companies want u to believe u have no rights and they can rip u off when ever they want . But its not true, we do have rights.I dont have experience with dfi support, but i have experienced the kind of consumer support available from other manufactures, and its always been pretty bad here in australia. (no replies to emails,and if they do there either rude or they ignore the problem at hand.)
i had to go threw small claims court to get asus and my retailer to refund my money. turns out it was the retailers responsiblity, so they finally paid up! after months of them refusing to pay.they were forced to.
bulldog , if it takes the retailer and manufacturer months to refund/repair or replace the expensive damaged boards they sell us. then maybe they should look at other ways of honouring there warranty. or atleast reply to our emails now and then. what if it was the other way around , and we only paid half the amount owed for the products we purchase? these companies would have us in court very quickly.

Some interesting points and I can see that you are little more on the ball so I will explain a bit. With regards to the comment about the length of time it takes to service a product you are right to assume that the process should take as little time as possible. That said, in place like Australia where RMA times can be longer, the wise consumer confirms RMA terms and conditions prior to sale. The reality of the matter is that person X often sees the product they want for a cheap price at webshop X. They buy it without a thought to RMA terms. Stop and think. Really think. Why can webshop X offer the same product as store X for a much cheaper price? One big difference is in the service they can offer. Obviously not all webshops are bad, but the point is look before you leap.

In your case you noted that in the end the retailer was responsible and not Asus. Such a ruling would be the same in any normal country. Asus never had a purchase agreement with you and their only obligation was to provide you with a sound product. Many people make the mistake in assuming that they can go running to the manufacturer for their choice of refund/exchange/upgrade if they so choose. This is absolutley incorrect. Some manufacturers might make efforts to accomodate people in accordance with their policies, but don't confuse good will with obligation. The retailer is the contact point for the consumer.

You ask about other ways of honouring warranty. The answer is choose those companies that offer RMA terms and conditions that are good for you. Do not assume that terms and conditions are universal. This is folly number 1

With regards to unanswered Emails I can say that in most cases the retailer/distributor/webshop knows no more (and often less) than you do about the product. Most are in no state to answer difficult technical questions. This means that they rely heavily on the manufacturers for support. Unfortunately in the case of Australia your geographic location is your disadvantage. You are invariably lumped into the support mechanism from TW. This in turn means that your issue will come onto the desk of an overworked technician who has a limited understanding of English. Add to that that we English speaking types (me included) can be long winded equates to Mr Technician drawing a complete blank as to what you want. In other words no answer.

Do:

-Keep your question brief and use simple English.
-Include relevant system specs. PSU, memory etc
-Include BIOS version used in the case of MBs

Don't:
-Ask multiple questions in one mail.
-Make generalized statements. "It's unstable" being my favorite.
Elaborate just a bit.
-Make assumptions on what you do not know for sure. Your not an MB
tech so don't pretend to be one.
-Quote forum threads as some sort of viable source material.
-(BIG ONE INCOMING) Come across as being on the offensive. Taiwanese
people have far less tolerance for someone who comes at them fighting
than a "western" technician. I can take harshness with a grain of salt.
They can not. Just don't do it .

I hope that clears up a few things for you.

[virtualrain]

DFI has the best engineers out of any other manufacturer.

Based on what criteria?

Oskar is no-doubt a great BIOS engineer but with the 680i he has let the user community down big-time. Each beta bios introduced more problems than it solved. For example, an april 07 bios fixed the X-Fi crackle but every bios after that until Dec. had the issue again. This does NOT support your statement.

The ONLY thing I think DFI does better than other board manufacturers is in opening up BIOS settings that others don't. With ASUS' ROG series, this is no longer the case.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, their engineers made a critical error in equipping the 680i LT with only 6-phase digi-PWM. It was not up to powering Kentsfields under max overclocks... a terrible design decision for a board of it's time and target market.

Furthermore, as someone else points out above, their boards are notoriously tempermental and fussy... is this an indicator of good engineering?

So I think you are going to have a tough time convincing me and others that they have the best engineers.

Also, engineering says nothing about build quality, reliability, and support where DFI struggles as well. In my opinion, I think all of this could lead one to conclude that DFI sucks.

[adya]

Some interesting points and I can see that you are little more on the ball so I will explain a bit. With regards to the comment about the length of time it takes to service a product you are right to assume that the process should take as little time as possible. That said, in place like Australia where RMA times can be longer, the wise consumer confirms RMA terms and conditions prior to sale. The reality of the matter is that person X often sees the product they want for a cheap price at webshop X. They buy it without a thought to RMA terms. Stop and think. Really think. Why can webshop X offer the same product as store X for a much cheaper price? One big difference is in the service they can offer. Obviously not all webshops are bad, but the point is look before you leap.

In your case you noted that in the end the retailer was responsible and not Asus. Such a ruling would be the same in any normal country. Asus never had a purchase agreement with you and their only obligation was to provide you with a sound product. Many people make the mistake in assuming that they can go running to the manufacturer for their choice of refund/exchange/upgrade if they so choose. This is absolutley incorrect. Some manufacturers might make efforts to accomodate people in accordance with their policies, but don't confuse good will with obligation. The retailer is the contact point for the consumer.

You ask about other ways of honouring warranty. The answer is choose those companies that offer RMA terms and conditions that are good for you. Do not assume that terms and conditions are universal. This is folly number 1

With regards to unanswered Emails I can say that in most cases the retailer/distributor/webshop knows no more (and often less) than you do about the product. Most are in no state to answer difficult technical questions. This means that they rely heavily on the manufacturers for support. Unfortunately in the case of Australia your geographic location is your disadvantage. You are invariably lumped into the support mechanism from TW. This in turn means that your issue will come onto the desk of an overworked technician who has a limited understanding of English. Add to that that we English speaking types (me included) can be long winded equates to Mr Technician drawing a complete blank as to what you want. In other words no answer.

Do:

-Keep your question brief and use simple English.
-Include relevant system specs. PSU, memory etc
-Include BIOS version used in the case of MBs

Don't:
-Ask multiple questions in one mail.
-Make generalized statements. "It's unstable" being my favorite.
Elaborate just a bit.
-Make assumptions on what you do not know for sure. Your not an MB
tech so don't pretend to be one.
-Quote forum threads as some sort of viable source material.
-(BIG ONE INCOMING) Come across as being on the offensive. Taiwanese
people have far less tolerance for someone who comes at them fighting
than a "western" technician. I can take harshness with a grain of salt.
They can not. Just don't do it .

I hope that clears up a few things for you.

yep i agree . just about all of the points u just mentioned are points i recently learned through my recent experience with my asus board.and dealling with small claims.
initially i was very angry at the lack of asus support in aust.But i now realize i was looking at it from the wrong perspective. i have to say , i was impressed with the small claims court and how well they explained things to me in regards to r.m and how quickly they responded.
Anyway i have my money back now and ill be taking ur advice for when i nxt buy a motherboard etc. Actually i just bought a new board, and its a dfi board lol

[SocketMan]

I always buy from the "local" shop, all the Dfi ones (4) came
with at least one year warranty- from the shop.
None of the boards broke down yet:2 in the sig and 2 RS482's.
I can't say DFI sucks but I can say this:
DFI's spelling sucks big time
All BIOS'es have spelling errors like "dibasled" and so on.
But it's actually funny.

[Bulldog14]

I always buy from the "local" shop, all the Dfi ones (4) came
with at least one year warranty- from the shop.
None of the boards broke down yet:2 in the sig and 2 RS482's.
I can't say DFI sucks but I can say this:
DFI's spelling sucks big time
All BIOS'es have spelling errors like "dibasled" and so on.
But it's actually funny.

The BIOS is written by Taiwanese people and as I indicated before their grasp of English is somewhat limited. Spelling errors do occur as a result I'm afraid.

Perhaps some of you remember older socket A boards with a "Chassis Intrusion" jumper? At a previous employer they would flash an onscreen warning: "Your case has been opening." when so triggered

[Bulldog14]

Based on what criteria?

Furthermore, as someone else points out above, their boards are notoriously tempermental and fussy... is this an indicator of good engineering?

Also, engineering says nothing about build quality, reliability, and support where DFI struggles as well. In my opinion, I think all of this could lead one to conclude that DFI sucks.

Funny you would use such terms VR. I've read some of your work and took you for a person who was firmly in the know. "Tempermental", and "Fussy" you say? Yes, to the uninitiated DFI LP boards might appear as such. What you label as "fussy" is no more than the boards placing a much higher demand on peripherals. Memory and PSU being the chief suspects. When low/midgrade components can't handle the strain they will cause instability on a DFI board. Place the same components on a non preformance board and they will likely run like a charm. Oskar designs these things for a purpose. That purpose is OCing. As a result the boards are put to market with very tight default BIOS settings. Tighter default settings mean decreased peripheral compatibility. No big secret. I can also never stress enough the value of a solid PSU. DFI boards draw and use more power than most of their comtemporaries. Do not assume that that 400 PSU you've been using on your 680 Bananatron board will work the same on a DFI LP 680 board. The specs of the boards might appear the same, but the electrical values are very different.

What people casually label as "tempermental" has an underlying reason. When one spends some time digging around that reason invariably turns out to be a one or more questionable peripherals. I deal with it day in and day out. A person reports an instability problem of one form or another. I eventually check the board and can find no trace of it.

[tiro_uspsss]

Oskar designs these things for a purpose. That purpose is OCing.

- & to repeat myself:

To top it of, I tried RMA'ing the CFX3200 - it took 2 months the first time! - in the end I never got my $$$ back nor a working mobo. & DFIs reason for the mobo not working? " Due to overclocking " LOL. If you go to the DFI home page - thats pretty much the only thing they advertise their boards for. & of course my problems were there @ stock. What an absolute insult to my intelligence - " due to overclocking " GFY DFI.

I loooooove getting my intelligence insulted

[SocketMan]

What a the chances that these DFI boards you bought were not new?
It's been mentioned here that resellers (in AU) repack returned mobos that users want to RMA, and then sell them. That would explain your troubles.
I mean what can you expect from any motherboard that is "broken" (sent for RMA) already?

[virtualrain]

Funny you would use such terms VR. I've read some of your work and took you for a person who was firmly in the know. "Tempermental", and "Fussy" you say? Yes, to the uninitiated DFI LP boards might appear as such.

I think even to the initiated, DFI boards are considered "Tempermental" and "Fussy". I don't think anyone would consider DFI boards to be plug and play like ASUS. So I think we can all agree that DFI boards are tempermental and fussy... the only question is do you consider that a positive attribute or a negative one?

You claim it is a positive attribute.

Here are my thoughts... With the old NF4 boards, this kind of behavior was tolerated (possibly even considered a positive) because the die-hard overclocker could often achieve better results if they invested the time and overcame the intricacies of the board. With the 680i, the board was simply tempermental and fussy without being able to achieve better overclocks than nVidia reference boards. BIOS support was also seriously lacking and the CPU power delivery was insufficient as well (as I've outlined above).

DFI's legendary tempermental and fussy boards that would perform have simply been replaced with tempermental and fussy boards that often need an RMA. LOL!

[Praz]

Can't get much more "plug n' play"


Nothing tweaked. Most settings on Auto/Default.

[Dark79]

DFI Northern America = RMA Sucks (they many times make some excuse to not send new mobo).

Thats just based on my experience.

Agreed. I had a P965-S board die in Sept 07. In the span of 4 months I received the same board back with a crushed NB and a refurb back that was supposedly tested but had only 1 working RAM slot. When I finally got them to agree to a refund, they refused to send me a company check citing too much paperwork involved (though I fail to see that as my problem). Instead I'm supposed to accept a personal check from someone I don't know from a business that's been screwing me around for (as of now) 6 months... yeah okay....

The boards themselves are ok... I'd even call them great when they work. Support on the official forums are pretty good though sometimes I get a superiority vibe from some posters, but overall there are a lot of knowledgeable people on there. I still have an extra P965 that works and a RS482 that's I bought at release that's still going strong so I wouldn't say their products are garbage. Every manufacturer has some lemons, that's normal, the problem is getting it resolved if you end up with a bad board and DFI RMA however is a joke.

[virtualrain]

Can't get much more "plug n' play"


Nothing tweaked. Most settings on Auto/Default.

Try that with a quad core on a 680i LT.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but showing a high clocking dual core on a P35 board is hardly vindication of DFI's tempermental boards. DFI's 680i was/is a terribly flaky board by any measure. The list of bizarre problems witnessed with that board on the club forums sets a new bar for "tempermental". I love some of the voodoo black magic rituals that were proposed to bring back dead boards from the dreaded post code 88 problem. Beyond belief.

[KoHaN69]

DFI has great customer support, they are just a little shy, after you get to know them better, learn a few names, they'll be of great help!

[Mankz_91]

Well, my DFI Ultra D died after 3.5 years of abuse, and my DK P35 is FRIKING SWEET!

[drizzt5]

I am planning on purchasing the DFI LP LT P35.... I never heard anything bad about DFI though....

Until now :/ should i still buy from them?

[Praz]

I am planning on purchasing the DFI LP LT P35.... I never heard anything bad about DFI though....

Until now :/ should i still buy from them?

Perhaps you should ask in the UT P35 thread. Same board just different onboard cooling.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=154898

[drizzt5]

ok, UT seems expensive though just for that onboard cooling....

[Sals]

Tiro:

Your not in my support jurisdiction but I have to say this is starting to wear a bit thin mate. Fine you've expressed the full horror of your situation for the world to see. Feel better? I don't know the exact ins and outs of your case as the boards in question were never in front of me, but I can say this.

DFI has 3 main areas. North America, Europe, and Asia. Australia falls under Asia. This means that any RMA submitted to a dealer in Australia must make it's way back to Taiwan for actual repair. It is therefore entirely logical that the process will be extended. I can gaurantee you that any dealer/distributor in Australia will not be submitting boards one at a time to our HQ in TW for service. They will save a number of them up and submit them in mass. The freight costs associated with sending boards one at a time would be absurd.

You rant on about the length of time it took and how this whole business is crooked and out to nail the little guy to the wall. This line of thinking does not take any of the realities of this business into consideration. I'm sure your first thought at reading this what does all this have to do with me? I'm a consumer and I have my rights. (Don't bother quoting Aussie consumer law to me as all civilized countries have more or less the same regulations). Those consumer rights do not allow for individuals to dictate terms as they see fit. Any rational democracy has checks and balances built into those laws. I'm sure Australia is no exception.

I've dealt with these sorts of situations 100 of times and while I'm sure your outrage feels real, I am certain we are only getting half the story here. So go right ahead and continue your crusade, I'm sure some disgruntled types will join you, but don't think that for even one second that you will turn the world against DFI. Individuals make their own choices, and forum communities have long since evolved from a bunch of scared rabbits that will jump when someone says company X is the devil incarnate.

My advise to you is just leave it and move on mate. Judging by the majority of reactions here I don't think your making much headway anyways. Your choice.

-DFI Support Europe

^Arrogance defined^

DFI boards are really only good on only one account: overclock. If you don't mind the ever present cold boot issues, the total lack of support on their forums, and enjoy paying the highest price of any consumer board on the market, and spending four times the amount of time tweaking only to get outperformed by AsRock costing 1/3 the price, then I guess they are flawless boards.

Only the vainest benchmarker would consider DFI as the best choice in mobos.

They remind me of Mercedes Benz, all about image and features with a total lack of quality control.

I hardly ever post here, but that DFI tech needs to know he is the one who is loosing face here.

[Polizei]

^Arrogance defined^

DFI boards are really only good on only one account: overclock. If you don't mind the ever present cold boot issues, the total lack of support on their forums, and enjoy paying the highest price of any consumer board on the market, and spending four times the amount of time tweaking only to get outperformed by AsRock costing 1/3 the price, then I guess they are flawless boards.

Regarding the bolded lines:

Asus boards have cold boot issues as well, and are a real PITA when it comes to start up using controllers with phase change.

Seems that Asus has the most expensive 775 board on the market after Intel? Striker II Extreme. Most expensive DFI board is $100 less than the Striker II Extreme.

[Sals]

I agree completely, I would avoid Asus as well, as a general safe rule.

They remind me of 1980's Cadillacs for some reason:
Real expensive, full of shiny do-nothing extras, and lots of poor performance.

At least they update bios's for the majority of their boards on a regular basis, a huge plus, probably brought on by their OEM support division(s).

[Polizei]

You sure take being wrong graciously. I'm amazed you can talk with your foot in your mouth.

DFI has BIOS updates for most of their boards. Infinity doesn't get them nearly as often because they're the budget boards.

[virtualrain]

DFI has BIOS updates for most of their boards. Infinity doesn't get them nearly as often because they're the budget boards.

The problems with DFI BIOS updates, at least as far as the 680i LT is concerned, is that every new BIOS creates more problems than it solves. It was laughable at times to see the BIOS evolution for this board. The XFI crackle problem that was solved in the 4/23 Beta BIOS was present again in the official 7/23 BIOS and then solved again (but not fully) after several BIOS releases. Then there was the black magic issue related to setting NB voltage above 1.5V... in early BIOS releases this wasn't an issue, but in BIOS releases from 7/23 on, you couldn't both set NB voltage (over 1.5V) and then overclock the FSB in the same step. A bizarre work around required first setting the NB voltage and then OC'ing the FSB in two separate trips to the BIOS setup. This is still the case and has been for several months! LOL! It was and is a sad joke.

[Bulldog14]

^Arrogance defined^

DFI boards are really only good on only one account: overclock. If you don't mind the ever present cold boot issues, the total lack of support on their forums, and enjoy paying the highest price of any consumer board on the market, and spending four times the amount of time tweaking only to get outperformed by AsRock costing 1/3 the price, then I guess they are flawless boards.

Only the vainest benchmarker would consider DFI as the best choice in mobos.

They remind me of Mercedes Benz, all about image and features with a total lack of quality control.

I hardly ever post here, but that DFI tech needs to know he is the one who is loosing face here.

The "DFI Tech" reads this forum often. No need to refer to me in the 3rd person. BTW last time I checked Mercedes Benz made some good quality cars. Could all those Germans be wrong?

[GamingDaemon]

I'm planning to build a new rig around an E3110, and all I have heard (other than this thread) is good things about DFI. I am going to purchase the DFI Lanparty DK P35-T2RS. After skimming thru this thread (didn't read every post), I am not deterred.

No manufacturer can be perfect, nor can their support be generalized. But I will be the first to post my honest opinion of my particualr experience to this thread.