EU fines Microsoft record $1.3 billion

[DoubleZero]

1€ = 1.5$, so yes Microsoft will stop selling products in EU.

[v0dka]

That is true, however the trade laws are basically political tools with, in my opinion, no real "protection of the people" benefit beyond getting politicians re elected.

I don't object to having reigns on the markets, just the way they are applied in instances such as these.

I'm sorry but that simply cant be the truth here, as the European Commission is not directly elected. The position of a member of the EC is indirectly democratic at best.

We are dealing with a plain and simple breach of basic EU legislation (the one and only EU treaty).

If youre taking about the European Court, the judges are not elected either (unlike standing American practice if Im correct). Here in the EU, judges are appointed for life to ensure independence from their employers (governments).

Like UnG said, in a free market you can't price gouge, if the price is too high you don't buy things. Why don't you own a ferarri? Is ferrari price gougeing with thier extremly expensive cars?

I think you need a new definition of price gouging. Price gouging is pareto inefficient and thus bad for the society. Price gouging is selling products for higher price not because of natural economic factors (demand in your example), but because the economic factors ceized working all together.

Read any simple book on economics adn then comment again.

[Starscream]

Ofc the fine is absurd high its a % of how much money MS makes a year and come on MS makes a crapload of money.
like if the EU had given MS a 1.3mln dollar fine then MS would laughed their asses of and most likely wouldnt have done a thing. This fine MS will feel (i guess) and maybe will act on it.

the EU hands out fines left and right on a monthly base but most of those fines nvr make the news like this one cause they are companys that are only known in a handfull of countrys.

And to those shouting MS should leave the EU.
The EU has some 700mln people. The profit made per product in Europe is alot higher then on the same product in China. So MS will NOT leave the EU.

i hope the EU hands out more fines cause come on how often have i seen the same product being way more expensive in the EU then it costs in the US. And no the higher tax rates arent the reason.

MS knows the EU laws and its not like the Eu simply gave them a fine. The EU has most likely given them warnings (wich didnt make it into the news cause nobody cares about warnings). MS chose to ignore the warnings and therefor got fined.
can't do the time don't do the crime.

ps. the US should also learn to hand out decent fines seeing how often i see companys get away with crap in the US with tons of US citizens complaining but nothing happens.


@v0dka
Exactly.
The EU ministers and secretaries etc are all apointed.
Wich pretty much means that they all have the proper education for their job unlike in politics were you get the job based on how good you look on camera.

[Donnie27]

Apple is also in strong headwind in the EU. Also alot of smaller companies. The EU mainly fines EU companies, but some people seems to forget it. They also miss all the smaller cases since they dont get the same media attention.

If the EU just wanted to milk MS they would take the 2.23billion$ that they can within the law.

"Talk is cheap, flouting the rules is expensive."

So are you cool with what's going with the EU, German banks, the state of Saxony and Germans propping up AMD while trying to slow Intel down? Claiming the EU is fair on trying to get money for problems that were addressed is what we call "Homerisum".

I'm sorry but I agree more with UnG on this one. Although I don't like Microshaft either, I think this size fine is Bogus as well. Sure the EU fine other companies but are any of them fined at this level? For something that's questionable at best? Where are they on Airbus for example and that unfair competition and lock out of Big B and MacDonald Douglas before that? Same thing with the EAF

Within the Law, MS can pull out and tell them to go he11 as well Now sure they wont considering the Billions they make but hey! I see folks here saying fine yes but the amount is a bad joke.

[w0mbat]

Like UnG said, in a free market you can't price gouge, if the price is too high you don't buy things. Why don't you own a ferarri? Is ferrari price gougeing with thier extremly expensive cars? Linux is free, yet no one uses it, and people still say MS is a worse product? No one is forced to buy windows, they buy it because it offers enough benifits to justify the higher cost. Maybe one of those benifits is that more software is compatible with windows then linux. Microsoft isn't developing that software, maybe you should be blaming software companies for locking you into windows and not the other way around.

And I don't know what you mean by us vs. them. The USA has problems of it's own, like UnG, I'm not a patriot, Im a capitalist.
[...]

Dude, i think u just dont know that the EU has a social market and no crappy free market like in the US. Theres a difference, property commits.

[Donnie27]

Dude, i think u just dont know that the EU has a social market and no crappy free market like in the US. Theres a difference, property commits.

Hehehe,socialist market

[rogueagent6]

Come on UnG, the fine is proportional to MS´s reveneu don´t you think? Bill didn't get rich with IDM shares you know, so I don't think this fine is ridiculous at all. It's about time the EU got their teeth in some off your US based coorperations if you ask me, never liked companies which act like their above the law.

Last time I checked, UnG was from Canada.

[w0mbat]

@Donnie27: Yes thats the word its from. Whats so funny about that?

[Ugly n Grey]

We know what the market there is, and as to V0dka: assertion there is no pressure from electorate... how fast would new guys get appointed if nothing happened? I mean appointed by the EU elected government. To put forward that these two named organizations are without political influence isn't holding water with Bismarck's lessons in Realpolitik .

[Shintai]

So are you cool with what's going with the EU, German banks, the state of Saxony and Germans propping up AMD while trying to slow Intel down? Claiming the EU is fair on trying to get money for problems that were addressed is what we call "Homerisum".

I'm sorry but I agree more with UnG on this one. Although I don't like Microshaft either, I think this size fine is Bogus as well. Sure the EU fine other companies but are any of them fined at this level? For something that's questionable at best? Where are they on Airbus for example and that unfair competition and lock out of Big B and MacDonald Douglas before that? Same thing with the EAF

Within the Law, MS can pull out and tell them to go he11 as well Now sure they wont considering the Billions they make but hey! I see folks here saying fine yes but the amount is a bad joke.

Even tho I dislike it, yes. But for whole other reasons that many things. Because I think x86 should be replaced.

And you do know the US aero companies gets just as much money? Or Intel? When they get huge grants? They all get the money, its just how transperant it is.

[Shintai]

Hehehe,socialist market

Socialism is the big bad thing right? Same reason you have HMOs and 13% below the poverty line? Shame on those if you should just share alittle bit!

EVIL I say, EVIL! MY precious, all mine!!!

[ryanmartini]

go eu!

Ill send them Christmas Cards this year

[vitaminc]

Socialism is the big bad thing right? Same reason you have HMOs and 13% below the poverty line? Shame on those if you should just share alittle bit!

EVIL I say, EVIL! MY precious, all mine!!!

socialism at a country that pretend to be capitalistic and democratic is a very bad thing.

sometimes governments just have to let theory of evolution to take its course instead of penalize the winners...

[ghost101]

This isnt socialism people. This is about promoting competition i.e. better markets -> better market capitalism.

[Shintai]

socialism at a country that pretend to be capitalistic and democratic is a very bad thing.

sometimes governments just have to let theory of evolution to take its course instead of penalize the winners...

Yes, evil socialism! Evil! And they can live with so much higher living standards and no debt. And economic booms. Its blasphamy I say...burn them!

Socialism seems to be the middle path bewteen the extremes. Ultra liberalism(USA) and communism (Vietnam, China, Cuba etc).

If you wish to put in evolution. Then communism will be utopia when the human genome have evolved past its basic flaws.

[Ugly n Grey]

Socialism is the big bad thing right? Same reason you have HMOs and 13% below the poverty line? Shame on those if you should just share alittle bit!

EVIL I say, EVIL! MY precious, all mine!!!

I don't have HMO's I have social medicine. Public sector. But when a company is private sector, I like it to be left that way. Not co opted via fining into EU's social structure.

[Starscream]

So are you cool with what's going with the EU, German banks, the state of Saxony and Germans propping up AMD while trying to slow Intel down? Claiming the EU is fair on trying to get money for problems that were addressed is what we call "Homerisum".

You either have no idea what your talking about or you didnt do any research.

Yeah the germans found out that several of their wealthy citizens have been hiding money in Lichtenstein. Ofc nobody in the US is doing this.

The only mistake the germans made was that it nvr occured to them in the past to do a big investigation into tax evasion.
The big plus to this scandal is that suddenly other countrys that nvr thought about it are now awake and are also investigating it.
Youl nvr catch them all but you will catch the idoits that werent able to hide their stuff properly.

About AMDs fabs in germany.
Pls wake up, when a company wants to build a factory that creates high paying tech jobs a ton of countrys will kiss their ass to get the factory.
For example the proposed AMD fab in New York. NY will fund a chunk of the build so no its not only the EU that does it it is also the US.
About germany being after Intel.
Pls again wake up. Similar cases are going on all over the world not only germany. And the big case vs Intel in germany has been going years before AMd decided to build their first fab in germany.
I am afraid however that with the gigantic pull that the big companys got in the US Intel might be able to have their US case dissapear by doing the jedi mind trick.

You seem to only want to see one side of the story if thats the case go ahead and live in your fantasy world.

[w0mbat]

Capitalism is the right opposit of evolution, its a mix of slavery and third reich and everyone who says its the right way is a hypocrite.

No one penalizes the winners, they´re only penalize the ones without conscience and the criminals who think they can buy the world and use humans.

[Metroid]

lol.

Microsoft will never ever leave EU because the money generated there consolidates as a huge net profit per year. Microsoft needs the EU market to stay alive, EU does not need Microsoft programs as many of them have been replaced by others because of monopoly acts.

Microsoft would be undoubtedly replaced in 5 years time if no less but only if was the case. The economy today is quite complex, no one can say that the item, program person can not be replaced, anything or anybody can be replaced.

The fine was low to say the least. EU has been warning Microsoft since 2004 regarding its monopolistic practices. So what is wrong about the fine?

I just think it should be 1.3 billion per year that would sums up to 3.9 billions. So that would make sense to me and teach big corporations to play the game fair.

Metroid.

[Ugly n Grey]

Capitalism is the right opposit of evolution, its a mix of slavery and third reich and everyone who says its the right way is a hypocrite.

Wow, but of course you don't participate in all this capitalism whatsoever do you? You donate all your spare time to the good of humanity of course and don't spend it enjoying the fruits of capitalistic labour on music, games, or posting on forums. Of course.

[Donnie27]

You either have no idea what your talking about or you didnt do any research.

Yeah the germans found out that several of their wealthy citizens have been hiding money in Lichtenstein. Ofc nobody in the US is doing this.

The only mistake the germans made was that it nvr occured to them in the past to do a big investigation into tax evasion.
The big plus to this scandal is that suddenly other countrys that nvr thought about it are now awake and are also investigating it.
Youl nvr catch them all but you will catch the idoits that werent able to hide their stuff properly.

About AMDs fabs in germany.
Pls wake up, when a company wants to build a factory that creates high paying tech jobs a ton of countrys will kiss their ass to get the factory.
For example the proposed AMD fab in New York. NY will fund a chunk of the build so no its not only the EU that does it it is also the US.
About germany being after Intel.
Pls again wake up. Similar cases are going on all over the world not only germany. And the big case vs Intel in germany has been going years before AMd decided to build their first fab in germany.
I am afraid however that with the gigantic pull that the big companys got in the US Intel might be able to have their US case dissapear by doing the jedi mind trick.

You seem to only want to see one side of the story if thats the case go ahead and live in your fantasy world.

You tell me I need to do research while repeating $#it I already posted, many times before, WOW! It is not fair for MS or Intel to have to compete against what is essentially a Government entity. NO COMPANY should in any part/s of the world. If believing that make me ___________ then tag me?

But help me with my research? Give me links to those big cases against Intel before FAB 30 was started? Otherwise please don't make such statements.
As one person here did easily change my view. He said the EU decided Saxony Germany needed more help than Leixlip Ireland. All I could say is great point. Still doesn't make it right. Think the WTO would be as lenient?

No, I'm not one sided as you and some others are here. I cheered for Integraph when they sued Intel, was on AMD's side for the X86 license Cheered against VIA in their reverse engineering case. Then talked about Micron and the Big 7 being crooks while most folks were flaming RAMBUS as being scumbags when I tried to convince folks they (RAMBUS) were right LOL!

We already did thread on New York that screw up that it was. I linked to when they started the talks and when they signed the deal. I laughed because they had a chance to back out after Conroe but Barcelona talk kept the deal going. Don't believe me? Do a search? Just one real Geek in the AG or the Governor's office could have stopped it

[w0mbat]

Wow, but of course you don't participate in all this capitalism whatsoever do you? You donate all your spare time to the good of humanity of course and don't spend it enjoying the fruits of capitalistic labour on music, games, or posting on forums. Of course.

U didnt get it, right? I think u just dont know what socialism is. Do u really think that everyone whos not into capitalism has to spare all his time to the greater good? Labour on music, games, or posting on forums are NOT the fruits of capitalism the fruits are a few rich and many poor people.

[Jochenp]

Nice one EU. I love it when big companies get to know the law and when you can piss off the rest of the world at the same time. Flex those muscles, soon the USA will see the EU's a big boy too.

[Donnie27]

Nice one EU. I love it when big companies get to know the law and when you can piss off the rest of the world at the same time. Flex those muscles, soon the USA will see the EU's a big boy too.

Sure, the US doesn't have the B@lls to do Tit for Tat now do they?

[Ugly n Grey]

U didnt get it, right? I think u just dont know what socialism is. Do u really think that everyone whos not into capitalism has to spare all his time to the greater good? Labour on music, games, or posting on forums are NOT the fruits of capitalism the fruits are a few rich and many poor people.

I guess all the "of course" I put in there didn't tip you off to sarcasm. And yeah we do have all those things because it made sense for someone to do it a for a profit. I believe if there were no currency and profit, no greed at all to motivate us, we'd (humanity) still be picking picking ants out of a hill with a twig in Africa. You can believe differently, but I believe we are hard wired to compete with each other for resources. You don't have to believe my take on things, I respect that, but do take some time and skim a few Anthropology courses.

Keep this intellectual. Don't get personal with it. It's M$ getting a fine, I'm sure they can afford it, I just question why it was given. Again I say it was political motivation.