Phenom 9500 w/ MSI K9A2 Platinum

[KTE]

I might... might still throw a Vapochill on it lying around. It hasn't been used since around mid 2006. I've been considering for some time but I did a few basic cold runs as an initial checkup and my last 9500 and 9600BE still did not boot 20MHz more than air at -30C/-20C/-10C/0C/5C/10C/15C (IHS), frustrated me after all the effort, so I haven't bothered again. AM2 mounts here were impossible to find for the VC, I have to order from more than 7000 miles away, wait 4 weeks and the cost was the same as buying a good WC setup so I withheld -> unless someone can show me some very healthy gains.

Water usually gains quite a bit of MHz, especially stability. Most guys can validate and small bench 3.1-2.95GHz with water and get 2.7-2.9G fully stable.

I'd like to see any cold runs by anyone even Sami if they could get 10MHz more than air/water with Phenom.

He died as mysterious as he lived.

Hehehe

What's the max CPU VID and voltage you've ever fed it?

Ever? 1,525V on the M2A-VM in the first week, later never more than 1,475V on the M2A-VM (max stable voltge) and not more than 1,425V (few minutes) on the sapphire.
A few days before I just had verified my oc results on the m2a-vm and could not find any signs of long term degradation.

Hmmm I don't tend to run plus 1.35V on mine. I'm very weary and will drop the temps to 0-10C ambients before I run above that and throw 3 more plus 100CFM fans around it.

If you could still get the same as you had before on the chip a few days back, then I don't understand how it just blanked out.

[batmang]

Does anyone have the factory version one K9A2 Plat bios? I beleive its version 1.1? Does the factory bios NOT have the TLB fix btw?

[Oldguy932]

I just ordered the AM2 mount for my vapo, should be here by next wednesday.

[Manicdan]

im still using the 1.1 bios and i think anything after 1.13 has the fix

[batmang]

im still using the 1.1 bios and i think anything after 1.13 has the fix

The 1.1 bios is the factory bios, correct? Anyone have a link to download the 1.1 bios?

[madfaze]

The 1.1 bios is the factory bios, correct? Anyone have a link to download the 1.1 bios?

1.0 is the factory bios, there is still available @ the msi global site

[batmang]

1.0 is the factory bios, there is still available @ the msi global site

I'm dumb lol. Thanks

[d412k5t412]

Sorry for not responding fast KTE. Been busy with school. Im not able to overclock at all the FSB. I used the picture in the post for what the numbers should be in that one menu (i forget, kinda tired lol). I tried my best to work out the perfect voltage and multiplier. I dont know what to do, I crashed on everything. This 113 bios is alot better, becuase I've noticed better stability. But I still end up crashing. Don't know what to do. Are there any bios' that support DDR1066 yet? Good ones, atleast. Thanks!

[justapost]

Hmmm I don't tend to run plus 1.35V on mine. I'm very weary and will drop the temps to 0-10C ambients before I run above that and throw 3 more plus 100CFM fans around it.

Lol, with 1,35V I could reach 214x11 on the M2A-VM same as max at stock on the M3A. Everyday oc was 220x11 at 1,4V without extra fans but not in a case.

If you could still get the same as you had before on the chip a few days back, then I don't understand how it just blanked out.

Odd isn't it. I mean ok it's a fact that oc can kill the chip but i don't see an obvious cause in this case.

[Oldguy932]

Well, I put my regular 9600 back in a few nights ago. Right now its priming at 11.5x248 @ only 1.3v. And here's a pic of my extreme wPrime times...



The NB multi was at 10x, so the actual speed is what wPrime has shown, I took the ss before I got the new version of cpu-z that actually works with my mobo. I really can't wait to get the vapo running now...

Edit: Make that 250x11.5=2875, same volts.

[KTE]

Does anyone have the factory version one K9A2 Plat bios? I beleive its version 1.1? Does the factory bios NOT have the TLB fix btw?

1.0 and 1.1. Everything after P0C has the fix, on the latest ones you can disable the fix but you still lose perf. when disabled.

Sorry for not responding fast KTE. Been busy with school. Im not able to overclock at all the FSB. I used the picture in the post for what the numbers should be in that one menu (i forget, kinda tired lol). I tried my best to work out the perfect voltage and multiplier. I dont know what to do, I crashed on everything. This 113 bios is alot better, becuase I've noticed better stability. But I still end up crashing. Don't know what to do. Are there any bios' that support DDR1066 yet? Good ones, atleast. Thanks!

Yeah, the latest ones run all stock DRAM MHz (P0F, P0H) but they don't allow most oc options (AM2+ P-States). I'm waiting for a good BIOS now with friendlier working options and

Lol, with 1,35V I could reach 214x11 on the M2A-VM same as max at stock on the M3A. Everyday oc was 220x11 at 1,4V without extra fans but not in a case.

Odd isn't it. I mean ok it's a fact that oc can kill the chip but i don't see an obvious cause in this case.

I'm still thinking this through but best would be if I had the chip to experiment with.

Oldguy932: The pic/bench you posted is at 266x11.5 3.059GHz and your NB is at 266x9 2.394GHz like I've said before which most of us already know about by now. No 10x NB multi on Phenom 9500/9600 only on 9600BE. If air gets you 3.059G then 3.5G should be in reach on vapo, maybe even 4G. Await the results.

[tictac]

oldguy.. test your nbspeed with cpuz latency test. see if you gain anything with that higher nbspeed multiplier. ok!

[Oldguy932]

I tried to explain this before. On my board, the asus, I can use any NB multi from 4x to 18x. But if you do use one above 9x, for example here's the comparison...

9x
9*200=1800mhz nb, 11.5*200=2300mhz cpu

10x
10*180=1800mhz nb, 11.5*180=2070mhz cpu

This is why 2753 shows up in the bench.

10x nb multi
9*266=2394 --> 2394/10=239.4 --> 239.4*11.5=2753.1mhz cpu

To get to use the higher nb speeds, you have to actually oc to get back to stock speeds. The nb is also locked to a maximum of 9*htt on the regular phenoms. I would get back to testing the latencies, but I'm finding the max actual overclock on this cpu, and 266 is my max bootable with 9x, 10x, and 11x nb multis, 260 is rock stable with 10x and 11x, I haven't gotten there with the regular nb multis cause I'm about to start testing 252x11.5. But if you guys are right and I was running it at 3.06ghz, then dang I got a good chip...

[tictac]

why dont you go straight to 18x nb multi. see if it post?

[Oldguy932]

I never got anything over 13x to boot reliably. 14x worked a few times, but I never got it to even boot to windows. 15x worked once but then it restarted and never booted there again. The perfect phenom would have an unlocked cpu multi but still have the nb speed locked where it is on the regular chips. The records for amd cpu's would be broken so fast it wouldn't be funny. Here's why...

NB 10x, HTT 266, CPU 11.5x
CPU Speed=2753mhz
Super-Pi 1m was 25.472 (didn't take ss cause the next spot on hwbot is 24.8)

NB 11x, HTT 266, CPU 11.5x
CPU Speed=2502mhz
Super-Pi 1m was 25.521

The times are within .05 of each other, but the cpu speed of the faster one has 250mhz over the slower. If the one with the higher NB multi was able to run at the faster speed, it would most surely win. This is where the unlocked cpu multi would come in handy. First you find the max cpu overclock, then you try and keep getting that speed with the higher nb multis. I know its been proven that a higher nb speed will beat a cpu same speed with a slower one, but what I'm doing just makes the speed difference alot more noticable.

[KTE]

Yep, we used to call that scenario "downclock" before.

Leave you NB at 9x and you'll get 3.059GHz with the same volts.
Your NB will still be highest I've seen yet on 9500/9600 incl. your chip: 3.059G and 2.394G

If you want to check NB speed, just run Sandra memory bandwidth and EVEREST cache/memory bandwidth so we can verify. As I've said, I've been through this 3 months back. Sami and I both know the approx. mem/cache scores possible through the range of frequencies. I know up to 2.596G NB and 2.83G CPU 1252 4-5-5-15 RAM and Sami probably knows up to at least 3.1G CPU and 2.6G NB. I don't think NB goes much higher than 2.6G on Phenoms on air/wc, I know HT won't.

You can do some RightMark Multi-Threaded Memory Tests and they'll show NB speeds clearly. Big difference between one multi change.

As for 1M: 3.059GHz can easily get 23s and below. Your 1M efficiency is quite bad because you have low NB/RAM speeds but high CPU speed.

HT ref. doesn't drop below 200MHz on 9500/9600, only multi can drop.

[Oldguy932]

Here's what I remember getting last time I was running benches

Everest Cache and Memory

L1: 1.0ns
L2: 3.0ns
L3: 6.5ns
Memory: 57.4ns

I need to get some better memory, but thats not as important to me right now. The memory was running 4-4-3-5-2T @ 707mhz. It does up to around 860 at those timings.

[tictac]

if you cant boot with 18x nb speed that mean nbspeed is actually working on your board. actual with non-be phenom max nb multi is 9x. the nb speed multi will still remain at 9x eventhough you set it higher. that mean it will bootup even we set it to 18x. but yours wont. got it?

[Oldguy932]

And I probably won't be able to hit 3.5ghz, my htt maxed at 300 when I tested it on this cpu the other day. That would only give me 3450 at most, which would be amazing for a phenom, but even just 2.9 at 1.3v is giving me 50-51C load with small fft's, meaning around 56-57C true max.

Well, I guess I'm one of the few that can play with the nb multi. That and anyone else with the 0801 bios for my board.

[tictac]

if you cant boot with 18x nb speed that mean nbspeed is actually working on your board. actual with non-be phenom max nb multi is 9x. the nb speed multi will still remain at 9x eventhough you set it higher. that mean it will bootup even we set it to 18x. but yours wont. got it?

This is Phenom 9500 (max nb multi = 9x) with 5.6GHz NB speed... it boot up ... Biostar TA770.... i guess it is not working.. because if it work it wont post at 5.6GHz NB speed....



but benchmark show improvement over slower NB speed.... i am still wondering why...

[Oldguy932]

What's it showing for your cpu speed though?

Edit: I just started trying 267*11.5. @1.3v it failed prime on the first core in 6 seconds, @1.325v it failed in 55s, and @ 1.35v the last two cores don't even start. I just realized I had processor to nb voltage left on auto, set it to 1.3 and I'm gonna see what happens next. Oh and if this setting doesn't work I'll at least get a screenie of 3ghz stable with 1.3v.

[KTE]

Here's what I remember getting last time I was running benches

Everest Cache and Memory

L1: 1.0ns
L2: 3.0ns
L3: 6.5ns
Memory: 57.4ns

Your NB speed is 9x looking at your RAM latency, it should be below 48ns if NB was actually plus 2.4G but your L2 cache is too low, lower than real 2.91G Phenom gets. 2.91G gets 3.3s which means you're at plus 3GHz CPU speeds as that's all that effects L2 latency.

What RAM MHz/timings does CPUZ show at those settings?

And I probably won't be able to hit 3.5ghz, my htt maxed at 300 when I tested it on this cpu the other day. That would only give me 3450 at most, which would be amazing for a phenom, but even just 2.9 at 1.3v is giving me 50-51C load with small fft's, meaning around 56-57C true max.

Cold limits are many times different

Well, I guess I'm one of the few that can play with the nb multi.

You see, so could everyone else I've seen incl. myself and look at tictac's post above mine. It's just that Phenom 9500/9600 did not actually change NB multi plus 9x. Only CPUZ would show it higher speeds than 9x and real software would show you the speeds.

BUT... but... divide the NB speed AOD shows by the HT ref. you set in BIOS at bootup and I bet it shows the NB multi at 9x.


BE does change NB multi and shows NB speed having big difference on perf and you need high NB volts for that.
*If you want to find out and see for yourself, like I said, just bootup at 266x11.5 3.059G at 9x NB multi and your scores will be like you're getting above, probably even faster.
-Then set to 239x11.5 2.749G and 11x NB multi in BIOS and compare 1M/wpime with your above "2749" scores. It will be a lot slower.
-Then set 217x11.5 2.495G and 11x NB multi in BIOS and compare with above "2530" scores. They'll also be a lot slower.

Not because you didn't oc your NB, you did here too but because your NB was always at 9x and your CPU speed was much much lower in these cases than the shots you've already posted.

You're not setting 2.7G/2.5G in BIOS, you're setting 266x11.5, that's why CPUZ is reading 266x11.5 3.059G.
If you set BIOS at 2.7G and 2.5G, I'd like to see that.

TRUE NB multi moved up above 9x is shown by one clear way: Sandra mem/1M/32M/wprime/RightMark MTMT and most importantly, you can validate the CPUZ (you can't otherwise) and you'll also be able to move HT up to those speeds too. Like this:




If no NB multi change above 9x, AOD does not allow higher than 9x HT multi on any Phenom.

Easy tests to prove NB/CPU speeds:
Run Cinbench 10 and POV-Ray 3.7 BETA at (BIOS values):
228HT ref. x 11.5 CPU multi (2622MHz) and 9x NB multi (2052MHz) ->
THEN
Again run at 228HT ref. x 11.5 CPU multi (2622MHz) and max NB multi (if 12x then 2736MHz) ->

Post back the images and scores.
Show both, AOD and both CPUZ CPU/MEM tabs in the image.

This is Phenom 9500 (max nb multi = 9x) with 5.6GHz NB speed... it boot up ... Biostar TA770.... i guess it is not working.. because if it work it wont post at 5.6GHz NB speed....

http://www.lejabeach.com/pics4/TF770A2+020908-2.JPG

but benchmark show improvement over slower NB speed.... i am still wondering why...

Hehe.. that's crazy. What benchmarks have you tested? Can you run the above two tests for me at 9x NB and at your max NB multi?

[tictac]

What's it showing for your cpu speed though?

Edit: I just started trying 267*11.5. @1.3v it failed prime on the first core in 6 seconds, @1.325v it failed in 55s, and @ 1.35v the last two cores don't even start. I just realized I had processor to nb voltage left on auto, set it to 1.3 and I'm gonna see what happens next. Oh and if this setting doesn't work I'll at least get a screenie of 3ghz stable with 1.3v.

That is polygon aka rebelheaven rig... you can refer his post here...
http://www.rebelshavenforum.com/sis-...;t=000463;p=23

[KTE]

I think he's just facing the strange issues I dealt with 3 months ago.

I can't tell the CPU/NB speeds from those ss though. AOD and CPUZ ss side by side would clear it all out for me.

[Oldguy932]

You're not listening. Here is the complete breakdown.

HTT=HTT set in bios
NBM=NB Multi
NB=NB Speed
MEM=Memory speed
CPU=CPU Multi
CPUS=CPU Speed

NB=9*HTT
MEM=HTT*divider
CPUS=(NB/NBM)*CPU

I know the actual NB speed cannot go above 9*HTT on a regular Phenom. What happens on my board is that it calculates the NB speed before the cpu speed, and because it lets me change the NB multi above 9, the htt the cpu is based off of is different than what is set in the bios. I'll make some tables in excel in the next couple days or so to show you what I mean.