Phenom 9500 w/ MSI K9A2 Platinum

[justapost]

System CPU load power consumption stays the same, hence why I only left one value for both conditions.

Importantly, if any reviewer clicked that or opened AOD without changing it back to yellow/green, they will give higher power figures, 30-38W higher idling than they should be.

That's an pretty interesting find. I really want to know what is going on behind the scenes in yellow and red mode.
Have you ever tried CrystalCPU to disable the fix? If so how did it behave in terms of power consumption.
Looking at the linux kernel fix, the software workaround seems to be no such big thing, I wonder if MS will release an hotfix for this issue, I guess never.

[justapost]

^ That was your comment about MaxVid/MinVid.
Tried it here on the m2a-vm with 1,325V vcore and MaxVid is 1,3V here. Gonna inspect that register further.

Hmm, had not translated hex to binary correct MaxVid is 1,25V. Are you able to set higher CPU VID's than 1,25V with an 9500 on your mobo?
M2A-VM allows higher VCore settings, AMD PM always shows 1,25V VID. That seems to be the correct handling and behaviour to me with higher vcore's.

[KTE]

That's an pretty interesting find. I really want to know what is going on behind the scenes in yellow and red mode.
Have you ever tried CrystalCPU to disable the fix? If so how did it behave in terms of power consumption.

I don't use a TLB patched BIOS though and the CrystalCPUID fix only changes it to the yellow state, which isn't much increase over the green.

Looking at the linux kernel fix, the software workaround seems to be no such big thing, I wonder if MS will release an hotfix for this issue, I guess never.

Microsoft will never do such a thing unless it profits them in a large way and hence, if it's perceived as a supplementary need to boost their sales. They have enough Vista issues to deal with yet frankly.

Here's some more bandwidth for ya.

Hmm, had not translated hex to binary correct MaxVid is 1,25V. Are you able to set higher CPU VID's than 1,25V with an 9500 on your mobo?
M2A-VM allows higher VCore settings, AMD PM always shows 1,25V VID. That seems to be the correct handling and behaviour to me with higher vcore's.

Nope. 1.25VID is max option you get, just like 9x NB and 11x CPU multi is max you get with 9500. Although they are downward unlocked and on the BE, the NB multi is downward locked.

[KTE]

Just a little posting...

1-core action: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=306513






Memories nothing, good BIOS like DFI one which runs 1250 4-4-4-4 can murder that. But look at the L3/IMC b/w... wanted to see how much MHz it takes to break that 10k barrier.

Again another fact about Phenom: memory/IMC bandwidth, latency and performance is not the same at X settings and Y IMC/RAM clock speeds, if the CPU speed is different. Lower CPU speed has lower IMC/RAM performance and higher latencies at the same timings/MHz than a higher CPU speed, big difference. You will see this difference in applications too, when scaling is plus 100%.

I also ran 2596MHz CPU and 2596MHz IMC on that just to check with the same RAM timings. B/W hardly broke the 9k barrier until I topped 2.7G on the CPU whilst keeping everything else constant.

[tictac]

yeah.. agreed.. the higher cpu speed you have. higher memory efficiency you get. the higher memory bandwith will show.

[justapost]

I also ran 2596MHz CPU and 2596MHz IMC on that just to check with the same RAM timings. B/W hardly broke the 9k barrier until I topped 2.7G on the CPU whilst keeping everything else constant.

Congrats now go for 10k Mem read an 100k L1 read.
I'm happy if I can reach ~8k here.

[KTE]

tictac->





That lady in your av is making me look at her...

Congrats now go for 10k Mem read an 100k L1 read.
I'm happy if I can reach ~8k here.

Problem is BIOS. We don't have a BIOS which runs plus 1:2 divider without big RAM/IMC performance penalty, even when the AOD red button is chosen. What I had when I ran 520 5-5-5-5 2T 15tRC 59MAL 1.9G NB with my 9500 is still higher than these new BIOSes give with 600 4-5-5-15 2T tRC11 MAL51 2.5G NB.

On this BIOS, oc is harder since you're limited to 2.66 RAM divider and the lowest RAM timings available are 4-5-5-15-12 and only 2.5V which is 2.41V real. Furthermore, NB does not boot over 2.596G and while it's easy to get that alone (high volts/cooling), you can't have high CPU, high NB and high RAM clocks with low timings synchronously -> you need monstrous voltage on all of them and loose timings. And to make it worse, all the new BIOSes don't allow over 2.5V DIMM and all give me only 4-5-5-5-15 as the lowest timings at 2.66 divider. Even worse, my chip can't do plus 250 HT ref. so I'm stuck at max 500. That's why I revert to the older BIOS, it has far better performance although only 1:2 RAM divider.
My RAM is 800 3-2-2-1 at 2.0V, 1000 3-4-4-4 at 2.2V, 1200 4-4-4-4 PL5 tRFC35 10-10 at 2.2V and 1325 5-5-5-15 PL5 at 2.35V already verified on 3 different Intel P35 boards. With Phenom/790Fx, plus 1220 hasn't booted up even with 2.5V at 6-5-5-15 and 2G NB.

Here's some trial runs for you with different RAM latency/speed. Look at the trend...
(click for full size images)










That last Sandra would've been over 9800 in EVEREST Ganged but it was very hard to get stable and Sandra is tough on the RAM too, loads everything full so it fails quick with a little instability.

100k L1 is not possible with this chip, volts needed are too high, above air cooling and it needs plus 2.95G, which this chip won't do sub 1.53V.

[jonspd]

tictac



That lady in your av is making me look at her...

twice

[Daveburt714]

Yep, that's how they load from disabled->enabled... but, why not see what FID/DID are presets.

Stock is 1.2000-1.250/1.250 for both parameters. You can disable P-States and bootup at stock all auto and check in AMD PowerMonitor.

Thanks KTE, don't know why I didn't think of that... You were right, when I turned it to AUTO it booted with 1.20v on the CPU, and 1.25v on the NB..

I'm not afraid to turn the NB up a little now, not trying to be a wimp, but with the reviews I've been reading about B3 this chip might have to last me until the 45nm parts come out...

[KTE]

twice

Shes looks like someone I know from Cali. called Jaymie, that's why.
She has a pic that was taken in her car as she sat in the drivers wearing the seatbelt and that one looked similar.

Here's another plus 9.7k EVEREST read at different clocks, found it on the 2nd drive, must have saved it whilst messing around.



Phenom doesn't boot plus 626MHz RAM, no matter what volts/latencies/cooling (plus zero), it just BSODs at Windows load-up. With RAM that is known to run this flawless at 2.3V.

I'm not afraid to turn the NB up a little now, not trying to be a wimp, but with the reviews I've been reading about B3 this chip might have to last me until the 45nm parts come out...

1.3VID? Should be easily safe if temps stay good. However, have you tried to see if VID actually changes when moved up and down one notch?

[Daveburt714]

1.3VID? Should be easily safe if temps stay good. However, have you tried to see if VID actually changes when moved up and down one notch?

Yep, according to AMD Hardware Monitor it does..
Man you've been so much help, I really appreciate it!

I'm testing @ 1.30 (VID=20) on the CPU/NB right now. Actually booted at HT REF of 260, it's never done that before..

[KTE]

Use Memset to check NB speeds because it works perfectly fine and is a very light and quick app, won't reboot or freeze the system even when it's extremely unstable. When you reach near 2.1G NB, you need to give it more volts for sure. When you then reach 2.2-2.25G NB, you need to feed it even more volts for stability. Had I known this with my Phenom 9500, you'd probably have seen higher clocks, but I didn't. You're welcome BTW.

[Daveburt714]

Well, right after I typed that message my machine got really squirley...

Had to reset CMOS a number of times, even the Insert/Delete combination wouldn't work... I had to set both VIDS back to 24 in order to get it running again.

This is a knee jerk reaction, but it seems like the CPU doesn't like much over 1.25v's... I'll try again, upping the NB only.

Here's an ss of Memset:

[Daveburt714]

Well, moving either one of the VIDS, CPU or NB results in a No Post now...

I tried NB=24/CPU=23, and NB=23/CPU=24, both required a CMOS jumper reset...

Man this thing is wierd!! Just when you think your getting somewhere it kicks ya in the azz.....

[KTE]

Don't change CPU VID, it's locked.

[Daveburt714]

KTE, you would really be my Hero if you could post a couple photos of your BIOS (Highest/Most Stable Settings).. I know thats alot to ask, and I'm not trying to be a pain...
I realize you have a BE, but at least it may give me a point of reference..

Cell Menu (below all the DOT stuff), and P-States... Would be perfect.

I can actually lower my CPU VID to 24 (1.25v), So at least I can get a little out of it (stock was 1.20v/28)...

I actually have no clue how your putting more V's on the NB/IMC, if I even touch NB VID, my machine won't boot...

[tictac]

tictac->





That lady in your av is making me look at her...

Me too...

Well... macci said that too?...hehe... back in nforce2 days we used to play with sandra bandwith memory efficiency. We got higher memory bandwith effeciency when the cpu clock higher....

[madfaze]

where can you download the latest BETA version?any changes?

[Hosser]

where can you download the latest BETA version?any changes?

A guest user on this forum recently added me to Windows Live Messenger and drew my attention to this post on a German MSI forum:

http://www.msi-forum.de/thread.php?t...user=0&page=13

The user is awaiting validation (and has been for roughly 2 weeks) so if anyone can help with that, that would be great - he's really anxious to get in here and help out.

Anyway, about 2 quarters down that page there are some beta BIOSes... If anyone's feeling brave (KTE, here's looking at you =P) you could try them out. I would, but I've just got my system working satisfactorily and I don't want to ruin it now.

Just an idea, anyway.

[madfaze]

A guest user on this forum recently added me to Windows Live Messenger and drew my attention to this post on a German MSI forum:

http://www.msi-forum.de/thread.php?t...user=0&page=13

The user is awaiting validation (and has been for roughly 2 weeks) so if anyone can help with that, that would be great - he's really anxious to get in here and help out.

Anyway, about 2 quarters down that page there are some beta BIOSes... If anyone's feeling brave (KTE, here's looking at you =P) you could try them out. I would, but I've just got my system working satisfactorily and I don't want to ruin it now.

Just an idea, anyway.

thanks!

[Hosser]

Please let us know how you get on =)

[madfaze]

Please let us know how you get on =)

am using 5000 BE, seems there is no improvement..hmmm

anybody use the snart fan speed on the cpu?might seems not workin, cannot adjust its speed...

[KTE]

KTE, you would really be my Hero if you could post a couple photos of your BIOS (Highest/Most Stable Settings).. I know thats alot to ask, and I'm not trying to be a pain...
I realize you have a BE, but at least it may give me a point of reference..

Cell Menu (below all the DOT stuff), and P-States... Would be perfect.

I can actually lower my CPU VID to 24 (1.25v), So at least I can get a little out of it (stock was 1.20v/28)...

I actually have no clue how your putting more V's on the NB/IMC, if I even touch NB VID, my machine won't boot...

I'm not running my most stable/highest yet and I can't access the drive my "stability" pics/txt file with the settings is on for at least 18 hours yet, but this is what I usually run day in day out like now. It's fully benchable and passes 3hours 20minutes P95 on core 3 whilst the rest pass 5hours. Not 100% stable at all but more than stable for my uses, never have errors. NB is fully stable, RAM is fully stable however for the CPU core 3 full stability requires one VID notch above.

So, I run:
CPU 1.20VID 1.192V idle/1.184V load (200 x 1300) 2.6GHz
IMC 1.312V (200 x 12) 2.4GHz
RAM 1066 5-5-5-15-11 2.0V

Pics follow=> (click for full details)



Ambient heatsink 18C, Outside -1C.





Yes the cores are undervolted from stock! Stock 2.3G is 1.25VID 1.24V.

Me too...

Well... macci said that too?...hehe... back in nforce2 days we used to play with sandra bandwith memory efficiency. We got higher memory bandwith effeciency when the cpu clock higher....

Yeah it works perfectly fine with these CPUs. And the difference is very big with both CPU speed and IMC speed, thanks.

where can you download the latest BETA version?any changes?

The MSI BETA BIOS thread linked below as we've posted before. The latest BIOS is 133.

A guest user on this forum recently added me to Windows Live Messenger and drew my attention to this post on a German MSI forum: http://www.msi-forum.de/thread.php?t...user=0&page=13

The user is awaiting validation (and has been for roughly 2 weeks) so if anyone can help with that, that would be great - he's really anxious to get in here and help out.

On XS? If so, what's his username?

Anyway, about 2 quarters down that page there are some beta BIOSes... If anyone's feeling brave (KTE, here's looking at you =P) you could try them out. I would, but I've just got my system working satisfactorily and I don't want to ruin it now.

Which BETA's? Check Post# 859 and onwards. I tried 133, P0F, P0H and 113 BETA there comparing some. 113 outclasses anything yet apart from its 1066 RAM issues.

[Manicdan]

kte how come you dont OC these things on water with high voltages?

[KTE]

kte how come you dont OC these things on water with high voltages?

Because all my gear, every bit of it, incl. my water and TEC setups are around 7000 miles away back in CA at home and I only came here around late March for studies till around March this year in a tiny student flat which just about houses one PC on the desk and don't have a decent WC setup here. I'm a typical student living abroad one year, very tight finances since computers is like the smallest hobby of mine which gets the least time and interest, so not worth it to me yet.

For Phenom testing; this isn't my daily system and nor will it be. I'm not interested in MHz/bench competitions at all nor that time so I've no need to have anything more than an easy clip on air cooler for basic tests, if I was then it still wouldn't be h2o it'd be phase/dice/ln2 minimum, and typical air cooling is used because over 99% are air users interested in air MHz at decent air voltages.. that's why I'm still on the stock AMD cooler here.

Of course, those interested in MHz/Benches can get more MHz with higher volts and cooling.. sometimes I contemplate a little effort, but I left that more than 17 months back and I'll stick to that until I get my PhD done with.