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Thread: Phenom 9500 w/ MSI K9A2 Platinum

  1. #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesteronyer6 View Post
    Thanks KTE !
    You're welcome. Let me know how it goes for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Esau View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KTE
    We've had 16 BIOSes that I know of, including 3 official final releases, and another one coming up soon.
    You suck
    Thank you

    Those 3 letters were wrote with magic ink, right? I'm pretty sure I can decode them... let me think -> DFI


  2. #852
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    One last Q is what is the best method for flashing these MSI boards, in the past I used winflash.
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  3. #853
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    I always just use an FDD with the AFUD412 or AFUD418 flash tools. Easy and safe.

  4. #854
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    I'm wondering if burning in this thing will help at all?

    the only problem I see with it is as I stated in prior instances it always froze without a load on it at high clock speeds.

    Yea know find the max stable at XXXX mhz with X.XX vcore and then drop the vcore .01 and load it up with 4 toast instances or with cpu burnin.

    continuing to work the vcore downwards/


    not that I'm tring it or anything

    http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.p...ntentials+Burn there used to be a guide here
    Last edited by jonspd; 01-25-2008 at 02:40 PM.
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  5. #855
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    Well, did you not read me mention it a few times already?

    If your system locks up randomly at idle but not in load, so did all mine, this one boots 2.8G and locks up only idling. You know why? Instability.
    That's why I did idle, load-idle-load fluctuation testing above.

    You need to add NB volts or lower the NB speed to sub 1.9G and you'll have it stable.

    Testing BIOS BETA 133.

    Pros
    *Excellent addition. Can now POST and run perfectly ALL RAM dividers, including 1066 at 200HT. 800 is stock.



    Cons
    *TLB patch applied by default without removable option.
    *No AM2+ P-State options that we need.

    BTW, I'm not sure if I've mentioned it in this thread yet but VIDs are basically VCore OFFSET values, meaning, each VID allows a certain range of CPU Volts. The lower the VID, the lower the VCore available and the higher the VID, the higher the VCore available.

  6. #856
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    KTE +1 nice job...Now only if the Ts770 had working memory functions like above

    Does the Unlocked NPTFID work or do they even have it in the Bios?
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  7. #857
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    I did about 5 times already LOL

    Man when are they gonna release a new bios with the ability to enable and disable the TLB patch....

    Gonna try what you stated but ATM I'm happy at 2.6 / 1.41v stable. Not high HT ref tho its 11.5x226, 2k on NB and HT, ram at 902 4 4 4 15.

    nice 1066 fixed...

    can you post a compare of this bios vs the 1.13 at same speeds...

    like an old setting/pic you already did
    Last edited by jonspd; 01-25-2008 at 03:26 PM.
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  8. #858
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    BIOSes are out, at least 3 which have the option to enable/disable patch.
    Even though the disabled option still doesn't return the performance of the no patch versions.

    New BIOSes don't have the options for NB FID/VID/DID.

  9. #859
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    Can we disable the fix via crystalcpu with a enabled patched bios?

    is that possible?



    Nice onward to 11.5x235 now thanks to you.
    Last edited by jonspd; 01-25-2008 at 04:15 PM.
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  10. #860
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    Of course, it's been covered many times before.. BUT the performance is still bad compared to non patched BIOS.

    Totally non-patched BIOS is like this:


    With present BIOS at those settings, you're looking at 1/3 that performance.


    Testing BIOS P0H

    Pros
    *Can now POST and run perfectly ALL RAM dividers, including 1066 at 200HT. 800 is stock.



    Cons
    *TLB patched but removable option there.
    *No AM2+ P-State options that we need.

    Same as BETA 133 in most cases for me but for the TLB option.
    Last edited by KTE; 01-25-2008 at 04:17 PM.

  11. #861
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    That just plan sucks 1/3 of a performance hit. Who in there right mind would run a bios that give them 1/4 less the performance across the board. I mean I cant under stand it. If the B3 stepping is fixed and you where to have a bios with the patch are you still going to be hit with the 1/4 loss?
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  12. #862
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    Quote Originally Posted by KTE View Post
    You're welcome. Let me know how it goes for you.


    Thank you

    Those 3 letters were wrote with magic ink, right? I'm pretty sure I can decode them... let me think -> DFI


    Prozactly!

    Cant say about worth of DFI Bios on Phenom end but for dual core they are getting worse!

    16 Bios.......You Bastage You need to come to DFI arena I have already Knighted You Now you're obligated! better have 3 more... don't forget the Pink TuTu either
    Last edited by Brother Esau; 01-25-2008 at 04:49 PM.
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  13. #863
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    I thought it was paxiactly
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  14. #864
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonspd View Post
    I thought it was paxiactly
    Bleh.......watered down rubbish
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  15. #865
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    it works
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  16. #866
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    Here's a direct comparison of the best of the new BIOSes (patched>turned off) compared to my favorite older BIOS - head-to-head WinRAR shootout at the same settings within 3-4 minutes of each other.

    BIOS P0H (P0F is the same)




    BIOS 113 BETA




    See any difference?

    And now the OC fun begins. VIDs, DIDs, FIDs, what else...

  17. #867
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    1800.2 vs 1800.1 HT&NB

    Remind me not to try any new bios.....
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  18. #868
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    nice!!
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  19. #869
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    How can 230 be stable and 232 cause a BSOD no matter what NB, HT, and cpu vids. I didn't relax the ram but it's able to do ddr1000 at these timings.

    I even did as you suggested and dropped the voltage and muilti's on the HT and NB all it did was make it easier to get to the desktop and not freeze up and 230-231 fsb.

    I guess I must be close to the max of the cpu but prime doesn't error on core 3 or nothing just BSOD kinda like ram is outta spec....


    I have ram at 127ns instead of what I was running 105ns

    current 2+ hours into testing. time to drop core #4 off of prime so I can game.


    http://www.jonspd.com/jonspd_uploads/screenies/test.JPG


    any thoughts?

    just be happy with 2.6ish?

    NOT I want 2.7 its only like 50mhz away
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  20. #870
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    Something I want to say is: those overclocks in reviews are totally hype. Single 30min and 1hour tests to consider something totally stable is just far from correct. Let alone after 2 hrs the temps will usually rise 1-3C across the cores. Why can't they leave everything at the same conditions and just run 5-10hr stability testing? It doesn't take long for a one off, it'll take 'em longer reading their daily IT gossip.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonspd View Post
    How can 230 be stable and 232 cause a BSOD no matter what NB, HT, and cpu vids. I didn't relax the ram but it's able to do ddr1000 at these timings.
    That's how core limits are surfaced. 1MHz difference->instability.

    That's the blend test you're running, right? Run the small FFT for CPU if you want to find errors, blend is only if you don't know the RAM stability and want to test RAM mainly. CPU isn't tested/loaded as much at all.

    However, IDK what your core limit is yet and IIRC you could hit 260HT, so I'm still doubting things here. To me, it looks like your RAM but you need to run Memtest and if you can't run bootable Memtest at those RAM settings due to them not being your bootable options, then stay in Windows, keep all software closed and run Systools Pi 32M 4-core multithread, highest priority, and if that passes then run RightMark Memory Stability Tester followed by in-windows Memtest (open two and set 700MB for each). If any fail with one error, set MaxAsyncLatency to 60 and close>open>try again.

    Mine does 230HT pretty easily stable at 9x NB stock volts, same with 232HT and 234HT. However, that's the absolute limit for the NB at 1.25VID 9x = ~2.1GHz. Over that by 1MHz and it'll get NB instability showing up randomly.

    Check this:
    I undervolted CPU to 1.121VID 1.192V @ 200x12.5 = 2.5G and NB/HT to 1.112VID ~1.0V 1.8G.
    Then ran P95 and played a game...



    The system was quite stable in P95 and benchmarks... until I started my 2nd round of tests, load cycling. In any case, the power consumption was now much less, topping out at 151W AC. What it means is that, I have headroom to undervolt at stock and when overclocked.

    So right now I'm mainly testing the NB/CPU headroom... testing CPU 1.2VID 1.224V idle/1.208V load 2.3GHz and 1.3VID NB 2.4GHz. On 4 hrs now, fully stable. Last screenshot I took:



    2.5G NB is next.

  21. #871
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    I totally understand the 12-24hr full load prime testing and I would do it with both small and large as large is normally the 1st one I run the small I never run blend just run memtest via boot disk if I'm gonna check ram stability. It ran for 2 hours at over 1000mhz with 4 4 4 timings and 2.2vddim



    I have another set coming this way some tracers. I have always done mediokra testing till I find where I really want to be at in terms of how things are running and how stable they are and what bench's/test show.

    I have yet to try max fsb again I just wanted to get a fill of how high I can clock the cpu at what vid. I think my max cpu vid is about 1.45. I really wish I had hours on end to let this thing just run P95 and memtest but seeing is it's my primary rig I have to find the sweat spot or as close to it as I can and once that is done then it will.....



    24hr prime
    6 hour memtest
    6 hour loop 3dmark
    32mb superpi twice



    I used to test by finding where it wasn't stable max and then coming down from there and thats kinda what I do but not like I used to as this thing has no desire to run 2.7 ghz LOL.


    FORGOT to say 2.4ghz on nb
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  22. #872
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    Those should be more than stable. If its Memtest stable, I'm at loss why 232HT isn't but due to CPU requiring more volts, better cooling or just the CPU limit itself.

    But Phenoms are a little different so a few additional tests should be, power cycling, hot/cold reboots, standby/hibernate, let system idle. Overnight is best case for lengthy jobs.

    NB speed is nothing, anyone should be able to get that and more. I've had 2.6G with the last one and this one should do it too.

    Need to test max HT ref, max NB, max stable on both as well as with high/low CPU multi and then max stable CPU frequencies, max benchable, best performance, sweet spot for 24/7 (if it can be better than the previous 2.7G one), temps/power at that sweet spot, lowest voltages for that sweet spot, lowest voltages/temps/power at stock speeds possible yet. I find more of an enthusiasm in undervolting than in overvolting actually.

    Temperature discrepancies
    I realize some Phenom temperature sensors are reading near ambient values on air, looking around and that makes them quite untrustable if anyone has such a chip (one of my 9600s was affected). What I'm at loss with is, why do they shut down at 74C when that is the chips actual shut down limit? Also why does it not make it unstable at 60C, if actual temps were plus >10C? 70C real will make Phenom totally unstable in operation and damage it. Furthermore, why does the stock HSF able to just dissipate 95W not keep it cool and keep it quite warm, at 50C load if we know that can't be 60C actual?

    The only way we can check is by crosschecking with the chips physical limits. 70-75C will assert PROCHOT and shutdown Phenom instant as its beyond tolerance. Then we can work from there onwards to finding the actual temps (approx) by using TDP/cooling/ambient/load/HSF thermal resistance values.

  23. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesteronyer6 View Post
    One last Q is what is the best method for flashing these MSI boards, in the past I used winflash.
    If you've got a flash drive you can try MSI's tool here too. I used it to update mine and it was completely painless.

    http://forum.msi.com.tw/index.php?topic=113295.0

    You'll need to create an account there to get to the tool, if you don't already have one.

    BTW I thought setting the light in the upper right hand corner of AoD to red/orange defeated the TLB patch. Is that wrong?
    Last edited by Blacklash; 01-26-2008 at 12:52 AM.

  24. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacklash View Post
    BTW I thought setting the light in the upper right hand corner of AoD to red/orange defeated the TLB patch. Is that wrong?
    In theory, it was supposed to be correct, but in practice, performance is still a margin of the actual patchless. Decompression/compression/ encryption/decryption/ encoding/decoding/ calculations seems to be affected the most severely.

    Synthetic tests may still run giving normal performance output but real workloads won't. Super Pi is usually 2-3 seconds slower with the method you mentioned over a non-patched BIOS.

    Looking at the BIOS state, it seems AMD might have (most likely actually) pushed MSI to implement the patch at any cost. It is AMD who decides most of their platform decisions in case you didn't know.

  25. #875
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    Quote Originally Posted by KTE View Post
    In theory, it was supposed to be correct, but in practice, performance is still a margin of the actual patchless. Decompression/compression/ encryption/decryption/ encoding/decoding/ calculations seems to be affected the most severely.

    Synthetic tests may still run giving normal performance output but real workloads won't. Super Pi is usually 2-3 seconds slower with the method you mentioned over a non-patched BIOS.

    Looking at the BIOS state, it seems AMD might have (most likely actually) pushed MSI to implement the patch at any cost. It is AMD who decides most of their platform decisions in case you didn't know.
    I think you're right. 3mark06 CPU test is down with the latest official BIOS even if I toggle the TLB fix off with AoD. It's only on the order of 40pnts and I still hate this big brother crap.

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